Passport needed when you hold a green card?

[BigDaddy28 228]

This is a very interesting question because I have family members who are French nationals and they confirmed they can enter EU with only an ID. I have traveled to my home country when I was a green card holder and a US citizen. By the way I'm not an EU citizen, although my great grand father is one. 

When I was a green card holder: getting out of the US, I had to scan my Tunisian passport. In france during the layover, I had to show my Tunisian passport. In Tunisia, I still had to show my passport. 

Getting out of Tunisia, I had to show both my passport and green card. Same in France. When I came in the US, I had to show my green card and passport. My passport was stamped as well at that time. So I know it says you can enter the US with just a green card, but you can be asked for your passport as well in my case to be stamped. 

When I became a US citizen: Scanned my US passport getting out. Showed my Tunisian passport in France and entered Tunisia with my Tunisian passport. 

Getting out of Tunisia, I had to show only my Tunisian passport ( I guess the officer figured out I was a US citizen since I had my family with me although he could've asked for proof of entry eligibility in the US). France I showed my US passport when I got out of the airport. US I showed my US passport. 

 

So in all of those parts of trips you can see a passport is necessary. When you travel show green card or ID, have a passport just in case you get asked for it. Let us know how that goes. 

[Jens79 64]

I might try it out one day and see how far I can come. Of course with my passport on me (I'm not an idiot). But it will have to wait until I actually have my green card, since I'm still in the visa process. And even if I somehow found rules that supported it, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot more hassle, since it's not a common thing, IF it's even possible. One downside is that you can't use automated passport control in the EU-countries when entering on an ID-card. You then have to go through manual processing. Which usually is super quick, but this is not a way to make it easier for yourself Quite the opposite actually. It's just fun to find out if it's possible at all.  

[BigDaddy28 228]

yes It's a bit fun especially for a person who loves traveling and you start asking yourself "what if" questions like me lol. I wish I somehow was French (as my great grand father) to explore more EU entry and exit rules lol.  

[Hope&Love 38]

Why is this even a question? Why? Passport was created for a reason which is served as international ID. Bring your damn passport to stay out of trouble.

[Jens79 64]

Again, for the third time now. Please read my initial message. I have multiple times pointed out that this is NOT something that is important to do or something that I will necessarily try. Even if this was possible, I would, of course, bring my passport anyway. I'm asking out of sheer interest, that's it. You don't have to be rude about it. If you think it's so dumb (maybe it is, but that's not the point), why don't you just engage in one of the other 10 000 topics on this forum? 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Jens79

[Jens79 64]

5 hours ago, broppy said:

It should work. You can enter EU with EU national ID card only. You can enter US with green card only. IATA has systems in place to verify that you have sufficient documentation (try http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm for something a little more advanced than the Emirates link posted earlier - you can specifically select that you're a Swedish US resident travelling from US to anywhere in EU with Swedish national ID card plus US green card and back again and it reports all should be cool).

 

3

Thank you for that link! I did check it out. I put in a fictive flight, both to and from Sweden, and I got the answer that the national ID-card would be enough to travel both to and from the US, if you're also a Green card holder. The documents itself should be enough, but I was pretty sure that the airlines had some rules that made a passport mandatory, but not according to IATA. That's highly interesting! It could actually be possible to do that. But I would plan at least an extra hour just for the hassle that it most probably would bring. I suspect that there will be some weird looks and some phone calls being made before you would get clearance to check in or board.

[USC1961 251]

3 hours ago, Jens79 said:

I might try it out one day and see how far I can come. Of course with my passport on me (I'm not an idiot). But it will have to wait until I actually have my green card, since I'm still in the visa process. And even if I somehow found rules that supported it, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot more hassle, since it's not a common thing, IF it's even possible. One downside is that you can't use automated passport control in the EU-countries when entering on an ID-card. You then have to go through manual processing. Which usually is super quick, but this is not a way to make it easier for yourself Quite the opposite actually. It's just fun to find out if it's possible at all.  

Although an interesting topic of discussion, this is not a game.  Testing the patience of border patrol agents is not the smartest course of action.  You can get into some scary and serious situations, even when re-entering the USA.  In fact USA border patrol have the reputation to be some of the least pleasant to deal with.  Believe you me, you don't want to get sent to the dreaded "secondary inspection" as they call it.  But since you asked, let's step away from hearsay and look at what the rules are.  

 

To Reenter the USA:

 

From the CBP website https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/whti-program-background/docs-air-travel

 

Quote

Requirements for lawful permanent residents of the United States are not changed by the implementation of WHTI. Lawful permanent residents must continue to present a valid Permanent Resident Card. A passport is not required.

So according to CBP only a GC is required to reenter the USA.  Easy enough right?  Not quite, CBP has the right to ask for your passport at any time if they have a question.  In addition when flying, emigration officials from other countries and the airlines themselves will still ask for a passport.  You could be detained for not having proper documentation.  In all cases, being stuck without a passport would be a difficult situation.

 

Entering and traveling within the EU:

 

This becomes more complicated as there are many countries with different regulations.  Usually the valid document when entering the EU from outside is a passport.  Once inside the safe zone traveling from country to county depends on that countries laws.  Even as a EU citizen some may still ask for a passport.  Here are a couple of links with info:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-should-i-avoid/how-to-enter-the-eu/crossing-the-eu-borders_en#anchor1

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/europeans-need-passport-travel-between-countries-europe-105883.html

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

 

Bottom line:  you need a passport when traveling internationally.  There are no ifs ands or buts about it.        

[Cryssiekins 976]

2 hours ago, Hope&Love said:

Why is this even a question? Why? Passport was created for a reason which is served as international ID. Bring your damn passport to stay out of trouble.

More of a discussion.  Things like this thread help others learn

new things.  :-)

 

[Jojo92122 1,924]

What is there to learn?

 

KISS - keep it simple . . .

 

Why the hell would anyone want to play game with border officers.  KISS.  Travel with your passport.  No problem.  It's not hard.

 

Play games, see how it ends up for you.  Insist to border officers and airlines that you don't need a passport.  Brilliant.  Enjoy your travel delays.

[Emily975 11]

So, I can tell you first (well, second, really) hand how it goes. My husband had exact same questions and he decided to try it out (it's also a EU country). First issue? They wouldn't check in his bag without a passport. Airline employee aknowledged that yes, he theoretically doesn't need passport but she can't really check in his bag (or him) without it.  TSA agent actually took his ID without an issue (again, EU markings on it). I guess they don't care too much when you're leaving  Boarding the plane, again - agent aknowledged that theoretically he can travel without the passport but they can't let him board the plane without it. So there was that. Once in EU, no-one ask for passport again. 
Going back, he was able to check his bags in and get on the flight with just EU id (he traveled from one EU country to another and then to US). When asked about ESTA, he always replied green card... again it became and issue with the flight crew. He got into the heated argument with one of them and... yeah, had to show passport at the end. Entering US he has global entry program (which I highly and warmly recommend to anyone that travels a lot) so he did not interact with anyone and the kiosk only requires green card.
 

tl;dr - it's usually airline crews that complicate stuff, not border personell.

[Cryssiekins 976]

5 minutes ago, Jojo92122 said:

What is there to learn?

 

KISS - keep it simple . . .

 

Why the hell would anyone want to play game with border officers.  KISS.  Travel with your passport.  No problem.  It's not hard.

 

Play games, see how it ends up for you.  Insist to border officers and airlines that you don't need a passport.  Brilliant.  Enjoy your travel delays.

It's a discussion.  Original poster and others have said, multiple times, they wouldn't travel without a passport, just discussing clarification of interpreting the rules.  

 

Also, you can learn something from anyone you have a conversation with, whether they think the same way as you or not.  

 

5 minutes ago, Emily975 said:

tl;dr - it's usually airline crews that complicate stuff, not border personell.

Agreed.  If it's something that's not routine (which would be the case bc the general consensus is to travel with a passport) then they have to revert to their manuals and they don't understand.  You find this with government employees too.  

[Lemonslice 4,567]

Recent report of a Visajourney member's experience

 

 

[Jens79 64]

11 hours ago, Cruise77 said:

Although an interesting topic of discussion, this is not a game.  Testing the patience of border patrol agents is not the smartest course of action.  You can get into some scary and serious situations, even when re-entering the USA.  In fact USA border patrol have the reputation to be some of the least pleasant to deal with.  Believe you me, you don't want to get sent to the dreaded "secondary inspection" as they call it.  But since you asked, let's step away from hearsay and look at what the rules are.  

 

 

Entering and traveling within the EU:

This becomes more complicated as there are many countries with different regulations.  Usually the valid document when entering the EU from outside is a passport.  Once inside the safe zone traveling from country to county depends on that countries laws.  Even as a EU citizen some may still ask for a passport.  Here are a couple of links with info:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/what-should-i-avoid/how-to-enter-the-eu/crossing-the-eu-borders_en#anchor1

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/europeans-need-passport-travel-between-countries-europe-105883.html

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm

7

Good point! This is of course not a game. I would never do anything that would cause me trouble. I have visited the US a large number of times and never once had any trouble entering, and I want to keep it that way as a resident. So I'm not trying to stretch the law. But it's an interesting discussion, and it's good to know what your options are, if you, lets's say, find yourself in a situation when you are on the way to the airport and realized that you forgot your passport, or had it stolen. If you are able to legally travel on your green card and your European ID-card, that could save your day and a lot of money.

If you want to try it out, I think a good way to go forward with it would be to present your passport, and in a nice way just ask if the other documents would have been enough. As long as you don't try to mess with somebody, my experience is that if you ask a CPB officer a question in a respectful way, you will get a good answer. It's all about the way you approach them, just like any other people.

Thank you for your comments and links about the EU. But in this case, that's the easiest part. The European national ID-cards are issued by each member state but follow EU-regulations and all national ID-cards are valid for entry in any member-country, even those countries who are not part of the Schengen-area, like the UK, Bulgaria, Romania or Cyprus. So that's not a problem, and one of the headlines is a bit misleading. The national ID-card truly replaces the passport, and it's well known and accepted. The problem would be if the airline would let you check in and board the flight. And I guess that European airlines like SAS or Lufthansa are more familiar with the European ID-cards than the American airlines, but that's just speculation.

[Jens79 64]

11 hours ago, Emily975 said:

So, I can tell you first (well, second, really) hand how it goes. My husband had exact same questions and he decided to try it out (it's also a EU country). First issue? They wouldn't check in his bag without a passport. Airline employee aknowledged that yes, he theoretically doesn't need passport but she can't really check in his bag (or him) without it.  TSA agent actually took his ID without an issue (again, EU markings on it). I guess they don't care too much when you're leaving  Boarding the plane, again - agent aknowledged that theoretically he can travel without the passport but they can't let him board the plane without it. So there was that. Once in EU, no-one ask for passport again. 
Going back, he was able to check his bags in and get on the flight with just EU id (he traveled from one EU country to another and then to US). When asked about ESTA, he always replied green card... again it became and issue with the flight crew. He got into the heated argument with one of them and... yeah, had to show passport at the end. Entering US he has global entry program (which I highly and warmly recommend to anyone that travels a lot) so he did not interact with anyone and the kiosk only requires green card.
 

tl;dr - it's usually airline crews that complicate stuff, not border personell.

That's a good piece of information. Was it a European or a US airline? I guess since very few people would do this, most airline staff probably don't even know anything else than "passport is needed - period". And if you actually have a passport with you, any sane person would pull it out instead of creating a scene. But if you forgot the passport and had to fly, maybe you could convince them to board you with just your ID and GC, but they would probably have to check with their supervisor, and you would probably need to be pretty stubborn about it. And a little lucky.

 

Back in the days, before the national ID-cards were common (I at least didn't have one) I managed to fly from Denmark to Greece with my driver's license only. After some discussions and a phone call to the supervisor. And then back again. But I was actually told that that was stretching the rules and I better get a proper national ID-card instead, which I did. (Within the nordic countries a driver's license or any form av ID is fine, but in practice, there are usually no ID checks at all.)

[Jens79 64]

13 hours ago, Cruise77 said:

Although an interesting topic of discussion, this is not a game.  Testing the patience of border patrol agents is not the smartest course of action.  You can get into some scary and serious situations, even when re-entering the USA.  In fact USA border patrol have the reputation to be some of the least pleasant to deal with.  Believe you me, you don't want to get sent to the dreaded "secondary inspection" as they call it.  But since you asked, let's step away from hearsay and look at what the rules are.  

 

 

 

2

Speaking of "testing the patience" of border agents, I have to share with you how my dad once entered the EU (in Copenhagen) when we got back from the US some years ago. The rest of the family went through like normal, but my dad was missing. He came through 5-10 minutes later and was upset and mumbled something like "those idiots" about the border agents.

It turned out that he had forgotten his passport on the airplane. So when he couldn't find it he went up to the counter anyway and told them that he couldn't find it and showed them his driver's license. They responded that he needs to have a passport (or a national ID-card) and that was his responsibility, not their's. From my dad's point of view that was ridiculous and they (!) shouldn't make such a big deal out of it. (Swedish and danish are very similar languagues and a dane can easily recognize a swede by the language and maybe that's why my dad thought they should just let him in, because it was "obvious" that he was Swedish.) 

After some back and fourth (and some "calm down" - No, YOU should calm down!" ) they let him through, but for some reason, my dad thought it was appropriate to be upset with the border agent for his own mistake. They could have dragged it out and made a big deal out of it, including calling the Swedish police to verify his citizenship before letting him in, but they didn't. My experience is that the border agents in Copenhagen are very friendly, with sometimes more patiance than you could possibly ask for. I just shook my head when my dad told me about what had happened.  

Edited April 28, 2017 by Jens79