Muslim community organizes effort to repair damaged Jewish cemetery near St. Louis

[CaliCat 3,957]

More news the so-called president won't twit about

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/22/politics/jewish-cemetery-muslims-fundraising-trnd/

 

Muslim Americans step up to support

Sarsour of MPower Change and El-Messidi of CelebrateMercy organized the crowdfunding campaign to support the vandalized cemetery.

Their goal of reaching $20,000 by the end of March was surpassed in three hours, with donations at nearly $60,000 and rising early Wednesday.

[OriZ 3,165]

9 hours ago, smilesammich said:

you don't have to, i just don't understand where you're coming from being more scared of liberals than alt right, when alt right is spewing alllll the actual factual antisemitism. i'd like to see examples of this antisemitic left in action..

Alright Val, ask and you shall receive, but now you are stuck with reading material for a week. For starters here is the Corbyn thread...while it starts out about him there were other stats and links in there throughout in regards to other incidents and stuff from the ADL that I already gave you at the time and you kind of brushed it off. So the stats and examples were already in your face you just chose to ignore them.

 

 

There were other threads as well but this is the only one I managed to find tonight.

 

Also these links I found for you tonight.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/22/yes-lefts-anti-semitism-pronounced-alt-rights/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/labour-antisemitism-jews-jeremy-corbyn

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/02/who-will-win-copeland-election

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-left-doesnt-understand-about-antisemitism-on-the-left-2016-4

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/social-activism-anti-semitism-bocott-divestment-sanctions-1.3633252

 

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-holocaust-the-left-and-the-return-of-hate/

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/james-mcash/left-wing-anti-semitism-what-is-it-and-what-is-to-be-done

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/10/when-antiracists-are-the-racists-left-wing-anti-semitism-in-britain/?utm_term=.7f0d8ad5e843

 

I hope you're ok with the sources? I looked for a variety for you. Some of them start about the same UK labour thing, but I find the stuff they present throughout to be spot on.

 

Also you have my personal experience example that I gave calicat...and how did we know that woman was a liberal? Well apart from the obvious(the bumper sticker on her car) and after my wife told her I was from Israel, before she threw her lil temper tantrum she asked if I was Jewish. Now if she was on the right, she wouldn't care whether I was a muslim Israeli or a Jewish Israeli as she would probably hate both equally. But if she's a liberal, she basically wanted to know if I was the oppressed or the oppressor before she decided to let us know how much she doesn't appreciate us to say the least. Never mind the fact I have never personally laid a hand on a single Palestinian(actually during military service the few times I came across one I made sure they knew they didn't need to fear me) and that I probably have more Palestinian friends than she ever will, that wouldn't have mattered. There's some crazy prejudice going on on the left and you guys are too busy acting self righteous to address it. Some of the links I just gave you talk about that as well. I mean even to you by asking me for examples it's like it's just too impossible to see that it even exists, not even that it might not be as common than I think, no, not at all, liberals can never do no wrong ya know?

 

Also you seem to have forgotten I travel the world quite a bit and trust me I don't need no links, I've seen it all for myself, I've seen the hatred in people's eyes, heard it in their voice, experienced it with their actions...and guess what, those usually weren't people on the right. Now you might dismiss that as anecdotal but to me it wasn't anecdotal it was very real and remember you telling us not to diminish or discount other people's experiences when they were here so...there we are.

Edited February 23, 2017 by OriZ

[Póg mo 1,749]

22 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Alright Val, ask and you shall receive, but now you are stuck with reading material for a week. For starters here is the Corbyn thread...while it starts out about him there were other stats and links in there throughout in regards to other incidents and stuff from the ADL that I already gave you at the time and you kind of brushed it off. So the stats and examples were already in your face you just chose to ignore them.

 

 

There were other threads as well but this is the only one I managed to find tonight.

 

Also these links I found for you tonight.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/22/yes-lefts-anti-semitism-pronounced-alt-rights/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/labour-antisemitism-jews-jeremy-corbyn

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/02/who-will-win-copeland-election

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-left-doesnt-understand-about-antisemitism-on-the-left-2016-4

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/social-activism-anti-semitism-bocott-divestment-sanctions-1.3633252

 

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-holocaust-the-left-and-the-return-of-hate/

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/james-mcash/left-wing-anti-semitism-what-is-it-and-what-is-to-be-done

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/10/when-antiracists-are-the-racists-left-wing-anti-semitism-in-britain/?utm_term=.7f0d8ad5e843

 

I hope you're ok with the sources? I looked for a variety for you. Some of them start about the same UK labour thing, but I find the stuff they present throughout to be spot on.

 

Also you have my personal experience example that I gave calicat...and how did we know that woman was a liberal? Well apart from the obvious(the bumper sticker on her car) and after my wife told her I was from Israel, before she threw her lil temper tantrum she asked if I was Jewish. Now if she was on the right, she wouldn't care whether I was a muslim Israeli or a Jewish Israeli as she would probably hate both equally. But if she's a liberal, she basically wanted to know if I was the oppressed or the oppressor before she decided to let us know how much she doesn't appreciate us to say the least. Never mind the fact I have never personally laid a hand on a single Palestinian(actually during military service the few times I came across one I made sure they knew they didn't need to fear me) and that I probably have more Palestinian friends than she ever will, that wouldn't have mattered. There's some crazy prejudice going on on the left and you guys are too busy acting self righteous to address it. Some of the links I just gave you talk about that as well. I mean even to you by asking me for examples it's like it's just too impossible to see that it even exists, not even that it might not be as common than I think, no, not at all, liberals can never do no wrong ya know?

 

Also you seem to have forgotten I travel the world quite a bit and trust me I don't need no links, I've seen it all for myself, I've seen the hatred in people's eyes, heard it in their voice, experienced it with their actions...and guess what, those usually weren't people on the right. Now you might dismiss that as anecdotal but to me it wasn't anecdotal it was very real and remember you telling us not to diminish or discount other people's experiences when they were here so...there we are.

Proving once again that proverbial paper, never refused proverbial ink.

[OriZ 3,165]

6 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

Proving once again that proverbial paper, never refused proverbial ink.

Proving once again something alright...

[Póg mo 1,749]

12 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Proving once again something alright...

I'm sorry, but, when you begin your posts with already debunked misinformation, I really have a hard time, keeping anything you say seriously. 

[OriZ 3,165]

23 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

I'm sorry, but, when you begin your posts with already debunked misinformation, I really have a hard time, keeping anything you say seriously. 

Good thing the truth doesn't rely on you taking anything I say seriously.

[smilesammich 10,727]

13 hours ago, OriZ said:

Alright Val, ask and you shall receive, but now you are stuck with reading material for a week. For starters here is the Corbyn thread...while it starts out about him there were other stats and links in there throughout in regards to other incidents and stuff from the ADL that I already gave you at the time and you kind of brushed it off. So the stats and examples were already in your face you just chose to ignore them.

 

 

There were other threads as well but this is the only one I managed to find tonight.

 

Also these links I found for you tonight.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html

 

http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/22/yes-lefts-anti-semitism-pronounced-alt-rights/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/labour-antisemitism-jews-jeremy-corbyn

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/25/what-is-it-about-the-left-which-makes-anti-semitism-so-common/

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/02/who-will-win-copeland-election

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-left-doesnt-understand-about-antisemitism-on-the-left-2016-4

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/social-activism-anti-semitism-bocott-divestment-sanctions-1.3633252

 

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-holocaust-the-left-and-the-return-of-hate/

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/james-mcash/left-wing-anti-semitism-what-is-it-and-what-is-to-be-done

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/10/when-antiracists-are-the-racists-left-wing-anti-semitism-in-britain/?utm_term=.7f0d8ad5e843

 

I hope you're ok with the sources? I looked for a variety for you. Some of them start about the same UK labour thing, but I find the stuff they present throughout to be spot on.

 

Also you have my personal experience example that I gave calicat...and how did we know that woman was a liberal? Well apart from the obvious(the bumper sticker on her car) and after my wife told her I was from Israel, before she threw her lil temper tantrum she asked if I was Jewish. Now if she was on the right, she wouldn't care whether I was a muslim Israeli or a Jewish Israeli as she would probably hate both equally. But if she's a liberal, she basically wanted to know if I was the oppressed or the oppressor before she decided to let us know how much she doesn't appreciate us to say the least. Never mind the fact I have never personally laid a hand on a single Palestinian(actually during military service the few times I came across one I made sure they knew they didn't need to fear me) and that I probably have more Palestinian friends than she ever will, that wouldn't have mattered. There's some crazy prejudice going on on the left and you guys are too busy acting self righteous to address it. Some of the links I just gave you talk about that as well. I mean even to you by asking me for examples it's like it's just too impossible to see that it even exists, not even that it might not be as common than I think, no, not at all, liberals can never do no wrong ya know?

 

Also you seem to have forgotten I travel the world quite a bit and trust me I don't need no links, I've seen it all for myself, I've seen the hatred in people's eyes, heard it in their voice, experienced it with their actions...and guess what, those usually weren't people on the right. Now you might dismiss that as anecdotal but to me it wasn't anecdotal it was very real and remember you telling us not to diminish or discount other people's experiences when they were here so...there we are.

maybe you misunderstood what i was getting at. you don't live in the uk. out of the articles you posted, i saw three that weren't about uk politics. i don't know anything about uk politics, i don't live there and neither do you. when i asked why you would be more afraid of a room full of liberals than altright, i assumed we were talking about a room here in america. i also assumed that you had links of antisemitic liberals in the united states connecting to the rise of antisemitism in trump's america and i guess you don't have anything like that. it's well within you're right to be afraid of whoever you want, but nothing you posted explains your stance any better to me.

i get that it would be easy to interpret a non-jewish or non-israeli person aggressively supporting palestine as antisemitism but i think if you would have asked that woman if she thought jews or israelis were sub human and worthy of extinction she would have said no. and that's the difference between a misinformed, overemotional, exists-in-american-media-bubble palestine supporting liberal and the actual white supremacists that have found a comfy home with trump and co. but you know the difference and how it unfolds for the oppressed, historically. my asking you to explain why you fear liberals more than alt right wasn't me saying you're experiences aren't valid, it was me trying to understand. honestly your stance is too partisan for me, and doesn't make logical sense. i do find it hard to believe that in every instance you've experienced antisemitism it has been from a liberal, surely not everyone had an identifying bumper sticker.

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, smilesammich said:

maybe you misunderstood what i was getting at. you don't live in the uk. out of the articles you posted, i saw three that weren't about uk politics. i don't know anything about uk politics, i don't live there and neither do you. when i asked why you would be more afraid of a room full of liberals than altright, i assumed we were talking about a room here in america. i also assumed that you had links of antisemitic liberals in the united states connecting to the rise of antisemitism in trump's america and i guess you don't have anything like that. it's well within you're right to be afraid of whoever you want, but nothing you posted explains your stance any better to me.

i get that it would be easy to interpret a non-jewish or non-israeli person aggressively supporting palestine as antisemitism but i think if you would have asked that woman if she thought jews or israelis were sub human and worthy of extinction she would have said no. and that's the difference between a misinformed, overemotional, exists-in-american-media-bubble palestine supporting liberal and the actual white supremacists that have found a comfy home with trump and co. but you know the difference and how it unfolds for the oppressed, historically. my asking you to explain why you fear liberals more than alt right wasn't me saying you're experiences aren't valid, it was me trying to understand. honestly your stance is too partisan for me, and doesn't make logical sense. i do find it hard to believe that in every instance you've experienced antisemitism it has been from a liberal, surely not everyone had an identifying bumper sticker.

No actually I guess you misunderstood what I was talking about because I already mentioned that even though some(not all) of them started on the topic of the UK, they went in depth into alot of what I was talking about in the thread as well, which is global and pertains to the US as well. You also must have missed me mentioning that even though the thread was about Corbyn, there are many links throughout from the ADL and other sources about anti semitism in the US and including in liberal campuses. You also obviously didn't even bother reading the links I posted fully(which I knew would be a waste of time) or you would have known they also mention the fact that Jews face more anti semitism in liberal campuses than they do from the Alt Right. Also, I never said I was afraid of anybody....scaring me is not an easy task, it's just that I'd be more comfortable with a room full of American right wingers(I didn't say alt right) than I would with a room full of liberals that came from all over the world. Considering that woman's attitude I'm actually pretty sure she would have said yes so we can all sit around here and make assumptions all day but her behaviour went well beyond support for a homeland for the Palestinians. I also never made the claim that every instance comes from the left rather than the right so you're putting words in my mouth throughout your whole post pretty much. I fully admitted they exist on both sides, which is something you seem to be refusing to acknowledge.

[smilesammich 10,727]

5 minutes ago, OriZ said:

No actually I guess you misunderstood what I was talking about because I already mentioned that even though some(not all) of them started on the topic of the UK, they went in depth into alot of what I was talking about in the thread as well, which is global and pertains to the US as well. You also must have missed me mentioning that even though the thread was about Corbyn, there are many links throughout from the ADL and other sources about anti semitism in the US and including in liberal campuses. You also obviously didn't even bother reading the links I posted fully(which I knew would be a waste of time) or you would have known they also mention the fact that Jews face more anti semitism in liberal campuses than they do from the Alt Right. Also, I never said I was afraid of anybody....scaring me is not an easy task, it's just that I'd be more comfortable with a room full of American right wingers(I didn't say alt right) than I would with a room full of liberals that came from all over the world. Considering that woman's attitude I'm actually pretty sure she would have said yes so we can all sit around here and make assumptions all day but her behaviour went well beyond support for a homeland for the Palestinians. I also never made the claim that every instance comes from the left rather than the right so you're putting words in my mouth throughout your whole post pretty much. I fully admitted they exist on both sides, which is something you seem to be refusing to acknowledge.

hostile much? never meant to put words in your mouth, if you're worried about liberal antisemitism - like i said above, power to ya.

obviously is correct, that was a lot of text about uk politics and i simply don't care. i did read the three opinion pieces that didn't start off with a big ol labour party yawn..which includes the op ed from the federalist with the byline "The average Jewish American will encounter far more systemic anti-Semitism as an undergraduate at college than in encounters with the alt-right or middle America." the author goes on to give literally zero evidence of the claim in his title. no data. it's all opinion but from reading the title i would expect some study had been carried out from the average jewish american experience. 

i haven't refused to acknowledge anything, this entire discussion came from me asking from further clarification from you. you've explained yourself, we disagree on where the current danger lies and let's leave it at that.

[OriZ 3,165]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

hostile much? never meant to put words in your mouth, if you're worried about liberal antisemitism - like i said above, power to ya.

obviously is correct, that was a lot of text about uk politics and i simply don't care. i did read the three opinion pieces that didn't start off with a big ol labour party yawn..which includes the op ed from the federalist with the byline "The average Jewish American will encounter far more systemic anti-Semitism as an undergraduate at college than in encounters with the alt-right or middle America." the author goes on to give literally zero evidence of the claim in his title. no data. it's all opinion but from reading the title i would expect some study had been carried out from the average jewish american experience. 

i haven't refused to acknowledge anything, this entire discussion came from me asking from further clarification from you. you've explained yourself, we disagree on where the current danger lies and let's leave it at that.

While he doesn't provide specific examples, again, you have examples straight from the ADL in the Corbyn thread.

 

And no, I'm not hostile, definitely not as hostile as the hostility I've encountered from some on the left as an Israeli Jew. But before we leave it at that lets see if you can quit dancing around the issue and just answer me this one simple question - do you or do you not believe there are some on the left, who aren't perfect little peace and justice seeking angels, who have alterior motives and hatred in their hearts(just not necessarily always for the same people as the alt right) or do you think that just doesn't exist?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, OriZ said:

While he doesn't provide specific examples, again, you have examples straight from the ADL in the Corbyn thread.

 

And no, I'm not hostile, definitely not as hostile as the hostility I've encountered from some on the left as an Israeli Jew. But before we leave it at that lets see if you can quit dancing around the issue and just answer me this one simple question - do you or do you not believe there are some on the left, who aren't perfect little peace and justice seeking angels, who have alterior motives and hatred in their hearts(just not necessarily always for the same people as the alt right) or do you think that just doesn't exist?

dude, i don't believe things without evidence. i have never in my life met a person who is a liberal who believes jews need to be exterminated. ever. i asked you for examples and i'm not convinced by those examples. now, if you want to ask me if it is possible that a liberal could also believe that jews must be exterminated, that they are evil, inhuman, soulless etc etc i'd say; anything is possible but i'd be more inclined to assume such a character a provocateur which no actual allegiance to liberal ideology.

saying 'ulterior motives and hatred' kind of numbs antisemitism into something less than menacing in comparison to those who literally want to kill based on ethnicity/religion.

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, smilesammich said:

dude, i don't believe things without evidence. i have never in my life met a person who is a liberal who believes jews need to be exterminated. ever. i asked you for examples and i'm not convinced by those examples. now, if you want to ask me if it is possible that a liberal could also believe that jews must be exterminated, that they are evil, inhuman, soulless etc etc i'd say; anything is possible but i'd be more inclined to assume such a character a provocateur which no actual allegiance to liberal ideology.

saying 'ulterior motives and hatred' kind of numbs antisemitism into something less than menacing in comparison to those who literally want to kill based on ethnicity/religion.

So the answer is no I take it?

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, OriZ said:

So the answer is no I take it?

you quoted my answer, want to reframe the question? otherwise, answer is no - no evidence, no belief.

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, smilesammich said:

you quoted my answer, want to reframe the question? otherwise, answer is no - no evidence, no belief.

Choosing to ignore the evidence does not make it nonexistent but ok, I guess now we know that according to you only the right could ever be accused of any sort of racial or religious prejudice, the left can do no wrong. Kinda what I thought but had to make sure one last time.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, OriZ said:

Choosing to ignore the evidence does not make it nonexistent but ok, I guess now we know that according to you only the right could ever be accused of any sort of racial or religious prejudice, the left can do no wrong. Kinda what I thought but had to make sure one last time.

didn't ignore, i don't agree - evidence you provided not sufficient for me.

to be fair, you made this about the left being more antisemitic than the right and yeah, i thought that was absurd. i'm certainly not comfortable speaking of individual acts of terror (cemetery desecration, bomb threats, shooting up mosques, tagging swastikas) as the fault of political ideology. there are specific people comprising specific groups now (with trump's rise) operating within the right's political ideology (basically piggy backing, though ultimately they'd like to boot those on the right that are not aligned with white supremacy, the whole cuck thing) and that's where energy needs to be focused on the actual culprits, not on broad labels like 'left' and 'right'. i'm sure you take that as me dancing again but, you're getting my honest opinions, i have no cehst agenda one way or the other.