Got Satan?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh, yeah, sorry for the ambiguity. I meant that Muslims are currently being openly persecuted by the government in the UK, with respect to veils. I'm not saying it's better in the US, where the terrorists these days are always Muslims on shows like 24, but it's not great in the UK either.

That is indeed happening, as it has taken place in France. I'm in two minds about - to me it seems to be an extension of British secularism, but as long as the rules forbid any overt religious dress I don't really have a problem with it.

[Niels Bohr 72]

If they respect me, I respect them.

[mmarlo 1]

Yup, the UK has a very different approach to religion. Much more sedate and relaxed. Rarely does anyone ever preach or obviously try to convert you. There are no billboards or signs proclaiming anything about Jesus or God, unless on actual church property. It is, in my opinion, better. People tend to be more tolerant towards others who do follow a religious path simply because they don't advertise it to the extremes.

Unless you're a Muslim.

I'm Muslim. Let me know when you think I'm trying to convert you.

The Muslims I've met in the US and Kenya have never tried converting me. I've found some Christians in Kenya, though, to be even worse than Bible-beaters in the US. I have never had so many conversations with strangers as I did there in which I was asked whether I was "saved" before we even knew each other's names. I wish I knew how to say "it's none of your effing business" in Swahili, but fortunately the point came across pretty clearly in English.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thanks, mmarlo!

France is ruled by the French. They have the right to make rules for their society. When Muslims choose to move to a predominantly non-Muslim society, we choose to subject ourselves to non-Muslim rules. And so it goes.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thanks, mmarlo!

France is ruled by the French. They have the right to make rules for their society. When Muslims choose to move to a predominantly non-Muslim society, we choose to subject ourselves to non-Muslim rules. And so it goes.

That's true, but I think in the example of the UK, the 7/7 terrorist attack (and the riots a few years ago) has given rise to wave of anti-muslim sentiment. When you have a national Daily Newspaper running an orchestrated campaign to "ban the veil", it's a fairly good litmus test of public sentiment. Singling out people of one particular faith seems as divisive as the original comments about 'religious dress'.

France has its own problem, and as I understand it has something of a class issue between French natives and those citizens descended from North African immigrants.

[mmarlo 1]

Thanks, mmarlo!

France is ruled by the French. They have the right to make rules for their society. When Muslims choose to move to a predominantly non-Muslim society, we choose to subject ourselves to non-Muslim rules. And so it goes.

That's true, but I think in the example of the UK, the 7/7 terrorist attack (and the riots a few years ago) has given rise to wave of anti-muslim sentiment. When you have a national Daily Newspaper running an orchestrated campaign to "ban the veil", it's a fairly good litmus test of public sentiment. Singling out people of one particular faith seems as divisive as the original comments about 'religious dress'.

France has its own problem, and as I understand it has something of a class issue between French natives and those citizens descended from North African immigrants.

[mawilson 2,133]

Really? I'd say the UK is far more tolerant of Muslims than the USA.

Mags,

That's the way I remember it too, but I wonder if it's still the case after 7/7.

[Mags 112]

Really? I'd say the UK is far more tolerant of Muslims than the USA.

Mags,

That's the way I remember it too, but I wonder if it's still the case after 7/7.

Well, I lived in London during the time of 7/7 and I never saw any anger or aggression towards any Muslims. The majority of sensible and educated people understand that the acts of the few do not represent the beliefs of the many. However, for a couple of months after the tube bombings there was a heightened sense of anxiety. If a young man got on the tube with a large backpack and he was of Arabic appearance, there were a few occasions where the tube carriage would empty out at the next stop.

People were scared, simple. It was simply a case of "save yourself". Not right of course to judge a person by his race, but understandable in that climate.

With regards to the current talk of banning full face veils. The Daily Mail is a bigoted and sensationalist paper, if you wish to read it then fair enough, but most of what it spouts is poppycock. And Tony Blair? Most people from the UK dislike him immensely AND he will be out of power in a couple more months. I doubt that there will be any banning of face veils, it is just something that has been blown out of proportion and jumped on by people who want an argument....like the Daily Mail.

I still stand by my views (and second hand experience) that Muslims are generally STILL liked and accepted into the majority of British society. By the time I moved from London 7/7 was a pretty distant memory and, to be honest, no one really blinks an eye at anyone's race, religion or culture anymore. It's a way of life there to see people of all walks.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Really? I'd say the UK is far more tolerant of Muslims than the USA.

Mags,

That's the way I remember it too, but I wonder if it's still the case after 7/7.

Well, I lived in London during the time of 7/7 and I never saw any anger or aggression towards any Muslims. The majority of sensible and educated people understand that the acts of the few do not represent the beliefs of the many. However, for a couple of months after the tube bombings there was a heightened sense of anxiety. If a young man got on the tube with a large backpack and he was of Arabic appearance, there were a few occasions where the tube carriage would empty out at the next stop.

People were scared, simple. It was simply a case of "save yourself". Not right of course to judge a person by his race, but understandable in that climate.

With regards to the current talk of banning full face veils. The Daily Mail is a bigoted and sensationalist paper, if you wish to read it then fair enough, but most of what it spouts is poppycock. And Tony Blair? Most people from the UK dislike him immensely AND he will be out of power in a couple more months. I doubt that there will be any banning of face veils, it is just something that has been blown out of proportion and jumped on by people who want an argument....like the Daily Mail.

I still stand by my views (and second hand experience) that Muslims are generally STILL liked and accepted into the majority of British society. By the time I moved from London 7/7 was a pretty distant memory and, to be honest, no one really blinks an eye at anyone's race, religion or culture anymore. It's a way of life there to see people of all walks.

Blair will be out soon - but Brown is pretty "hard core" compared to Blair (I'm secretly glad I'm not going to be living over there while he's in charge), and he has already echoed Tony's and Jack Straw's comments.

The newspaper story with the "ban the veil" crusade was actually The Daily Express, but its of a muchness with the Daily Mail. That said, both of those newspapers have a very high circulation and are generally right leaning (in fact all of the UK tabloids and dailies are) - that should say something...

[Ban Hammer 12,872]

That's the way I remember it too, but I wonder if it's still the case after 7/7.

after a case of 7/7, i'd not give a hoot

[Mags 112]

Really? I'd say the UK is far more tolerant of Muslims than the USA.

Mags,

That's the way I remember it too, but I wonder if it's still the case after 7/7.

Well, I lived in London during the time of 7/7 and I never saw any anger or aggression towards any Muslims. The majority of sensible and educated people understand that the acts of the few do not represent the beliefs of the many. However, for a couple of months after the tube bombings there was a heightened sense of anxiety. If a young man got on the tube with a large backpack and he was of Arabic appearance, there were a few occasions where the tube carriage would empty out at the next stop.

People were scared, simple. It was simply a case of "save yourself". Not right of course to judge a person by his race, but understandable in that climate.

With regards to the current talk of banning full face veils. The Daily Mail is a bigoted and sensationalist paper, if you wish to read it then fair enough, but most of what it spouts is poppycock. And Tony Blair? Most people from the UK dislike him immensely AND he will be out of power in a couple more months. I doubt that there will be any banning of face veils, it is just something that has been blown out of proportion and jumped on by people who want an argument....like the Daily Mail.

I still stand by my views (and second hand experience) that Muslims are generally STILL liked and accepted into the majority of British society. By the time I moved from London 7/7 was a pretty distant memory and, to be honest, no one really blinks an eye at anyone's race, religion or culture anymore. It's a way of life there to see people of all walks.

Blair will be out soon - but Brown is pretty "hard core" compared to Blair (I'm secretly glad I'm not going to be living over there while he's in charge), and he has already echoed Tony's and Jack Straw's comments.

The newspaper story with the "ban the veil" crusade was actually The Daily Express, but its of a muchness with the Daily Mail. That said, both of those newspapers have a very high circulation and are generally right leaning (in fact all of the UK tabloids and dailies are) - that should say something...

Oh yeah, the Daily Express is the poor man's version of the DM. Same old, same old...

[devblt 0]

Anyone seen Rob around after the Got Jesus debacle?

Has the captain been slapped with a law suit?

[brnidokiegurl 0]

tHINKING HES GONE

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Anyone seen Rob around after the Got Jesus debacle?

Has the captain been slapped with a law suit?

I think his account has been disabled...

[almaty 19]