Teaching men to be emotionally honest.

[Jacque67 7,328]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/teaching-men-to-be-emotionally-honest.html

[lostinblue 1,989]

[ExPatty 502]

It isn't a bad article but despite its title it isn't at all prescriptive. It also may be drawing the wrong conclusion; it says men are doing generally worse than women in school/college (this is true) even as the typical macho culture diminishes. So its solution is to accelerate that trend as a solution? Perhaps the solution is in fact to stop pretending that men and women ever have or will see relationships the same and stop shaming men for doing what they are bilogically encouraged to do?

As for why young men might actually be doing quite badly these days, for the past couple of decades society has been celebrating women's rights and more readily blaming men (particularly white ones) for many of the ills of society. They are being taught that they are the problem, they need to accept blame for what others did, they are the old guard and they need to adapt or get out of the way. This tends not to instill great self esteem and value in the recipient.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

One interesting study I read long ago talked about general intelligence between men and women - the average is basically the same but the spread from the average was much wider in men. Translated to the classroom: The "dumbest" kids in the class are likely to be male as well as the "smartest" where as women would tend to be hover near the average.. Any particular individual of either gender could be anywhere on the chart of course.

[smilesammich 10,727]

even in group therapy, you're all alone. sad.

[smilesammich 10,727]

It isn't a bad article but despite its title it isn't at all prescriptive. It also may be drawing the wrong conclusion; it says men are doing generally worse than women in school/college (this is true) even as the typical macho culture diminishes. So its solution is to accelerate that trend as a solution? Perhaps the solution is in fact to stop pretending that men and women ever have or will see relationships the same and stop shaming men for doing what they are bilogically encouraged to do?

As for why young men might actually be doing quite badly these days, for the past couple of decades society has been celebrating women's rights and more readily blaming men (particularly white ones) for many of the ills of society. They are being taught that they are the problem, they need to accept blame for what others did, they are the old guard and they need to adapt or get out of the way. This tends not to instill great self esteem and value in the recipient.

i disagree that boys are being taught 'they are the problem'. i'd like to see a few examples of this actively being taught to boys.

i think it's a combination of a ongoing loss of educational accountability at the grade school level (no child left behind means that no one gets held back - even if they haven't learned a damn thing all year). and for boys, there's a certain sense of entitlement that's the ever present backdrop suggesting the normal patterns of male behavior.. (“It’s like we’re scared,” he said, “that the natural order of things will completely collapse.”)

i believe we're still seeing the results of the normal 'you're crying like a girl' comments that all children grow up hearing and internalizing. girls are, for the most part, taught that they will have to work harder for what they want than men. which is true..

[ExPatty 502]

i disagree that boys are being taught 'they are the problem'. i'd like to see a few examples of this actively being taught to boys.

i think it's a combination of a ongoing loss of educational accountability at the grade school level (no child left behind means that no one gets held back - even if they haven't learned a damn thing all year). and for boys, there's a certain sense of entitlement that's the ever present backdrop suggesting the normal patterns of male behavior.. (“It’s like we’re scared,” he said, “that the natural order of things will completely collapse.”)

i believe we're still seeing the results of the normal 'you're crying like a girl' comments that all children grow up hearing and internalizing. girls are, for the most part, taught that they will have to work harder for what they want than men. which is true..

Maybe I ought not to say boys are, but men are (it's become okay to demonize "old white men") and boys know eventually they will turn into men.

I think the gap between what is available to men and women has closed so much that it's a great time to be born a female. Trends have been changing for men for a while. They are more likely to go off the rails as teens and do stupid #######, end up as failures/losers. Girls still believe there are things that only men can/should do, but that chunk of jobs and interests is shrinking.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Maybe I ought not to say boys are, but men are (it's become okay to demonize "old white men") and boys know eventually they will turn into men.

I think the gap between what is available to men and women has closed so much that it's a great time to be born a female. Trends have been changing for men for a while. They are more likely to go off the rails as teens and do stupid #######, end up as failures/losers. Girls still believe there are things that only men can/should do, but that chunk of jobs and interests is shrinking.

i don't think it's become okay to demonize old white men. i think you're confusing disdain for the establishment - the 'patriarchy' if you will - with disdain for old entitled racists. after all, not all boys are going to grow up to be white men.

i also disagree that males are more likely to go off the rails as teens and muck up their lives. disciplinary action at school level nowadays translates often into a criminal record - for both males and females. i think this definitely translates into plenty of missed opportunities and 'adjusted' career goals.

my opinion, the disappearance of the middle class definitely has something to do with this sinking 'average' with boys. my dad supported three kids and a stay at home wife (starting late 70s, at 19) with nothing more than a high school diploma and a good work ethic. that isn't at all a realistic scenario any more - considering he's never worked retail or fast food. he's also not in a typical 'male' career field. basically, i think we're still raising our kids with gender roles that are long outdated with expectations that are completely unrealistic.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

In many ways, the young men who take my seminar typically, 20 percent of the class mirror national trends. Based on their grades and writing assignments, its clear that they spend less time on homework than female students do; and while every bit as intelligent, they earn lower grades with studied indifference. When I asked one of my male students why he didnt openly fret about grades the way so many women do, he said: Nothings worse for a guy than looking like a Try Hard.

The article points men don't take education serios.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

"It should come as no surprise that college enrollment rates for women have outstripped mens. In 1994, according to a Pew Research Center analysis, 63 percent of females and 61 percent of males enrolled in college right after high school; by 2012, the percentage of young women had increased to 71, but the percentage of men remained unchanged.

By the time many young men do reach college, a deep-seated gender stereotype has taken root that feeds into the stories they have heard about themselves as learners. Better to earn your Man Card than to succeed like a girl, all in the name of constantly having to prove an identity to yourself and others."

What I also find interesting is the fact that women are continuously choosing to educate themselves at a higher rate, while men are not. I wonder why is this the case.

Is it because men don't have to because this is a man's world and they can get employed without degrees?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

What I also find interesting is the fact that women are continuously choosing to educate themselves at a higher rate, while men are not. I wonder why is this the case.

Is it because men don't have to because this is a man's world and they can get employed without degrees?

if they keep it up they will be on the losing end and eventually adjust.

From my anecdotal experience I see men much more worried about today and not being willing to sacrifice now for the future. In some ways this makes sense - a woman deciding to be poor for a few years and return to school or start over in a new career will still be able to have a social life. A guy over 30 without a good job - forget it.

Edited April 5, 2016 by OnMyWayID

[Jacque67 7,328]

"It should come as no surprise that college enrollment rates for women have outstripped mens. In 1994, according to a Pew Research Center analysis, 63 percent of females and 61 percent of males enrolled in college right after high school; by 2012, the percentage of young women had increased to 71, but the percentage of men remained unchanged.

By the time many young men do reach college, a deep-seated gender stereotype has taken root that feeds into the stories they have heard about themselves as learners. Better to earn your Man Card than to succeed like a girl, all in the name of constantly having to prove an identity to yourself and others."

What I also find interesting is the fact that women are continuously choosing to educate themselves at a higher rate, while men are not. I wonder why is this the case.

Is it because men don't have to because this is a man's world and they can get employed without degrees?

Hmm. Maybe men are smarter?

Lots of young men here fantasise about being house husbands. Get the wife to work and stay at home with the kids...

[smilesammich 10,727]

What I also find interesting is the fact that women are continuously choosing to educate themselves at a higher rate, while men are not. I wonder why is this the case.

Is it because men don't have to because this is a man's world and they can get employed without degrees?

i think it's a subconscious thing, where girls are pushed by society to get educated and establish a career prior to popping out babies and boys aren't really pushed toward anything but sports. getting an education and career are far more attainable than being a professional athlete.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

i think it's a subconscious thing, where girls are pushed by society to get educated and establish a career prior to popping out babies and boys aren't really pushed toward anything but sports. getting an education and career are far more attainable than being a professional athlete.

For American women it is hard to go to college x amount of years and then have a baby and expect to pop back and look like your 20 again. Men have started looking for women who are young, and not college oriented to become their wives. Making America great again

[Jacque67 7,328]

For American women it is hard to go to college x amount of years and then have a baby and expect to pop back and look like your 20 again. Men have started looking for women who are young, and not college oriented to become their wives. Making America great again

Is that true for Young America males though? Or is it just the older ones who are seeking this out?