Foreign Assets

[Penguin_ie 5,988]

Having lived abroad, you may not know many people back in the USA anymore, but you might try to get a co-sponsor; a US based friend or family member who will stand guarantoor...

[Siam Sam 6]

I'm afraid I have no real family left to speak of in the US save a 95-year-old uncle in California. We do still have a few friends stateside but no one we'd feel comfortable bothering with this. No, we're going to have to deal with this ourselves even if it means selling the condo, which we were considering anyway. The condo alone is worth at least $125,000, and we'd been trying to decide whether to rent it out or just sell it. May have to sell after all.

First I'm going to do some research into how the Bangkok office has generally treated Thai property.

[mallafri76 1,012]

We're using assets and I have had my interview. We have to submit a new i-864 before we can get a final decision but it looks like they're accepting our assets. When we filed at NVC, part of the assets where an apartment I owned. That had been sold in time for my interview.

The proof of assets I submitted at the interview were a letter from my bank stating the exact assets (cash in account and stock portfolio) I have with them in Swedish Kroner and USD. The letter also stated that I had been a long time customer at the bank and I think it said that I had had the assets for at least a year. The letter was signed by the bank manager and my account manager. I also submitted a stock portfolio statement from an online trading bank I use.

You need to have at least $60,000 in assets (property and cash is included here), but they don't like it if you're right on the limit so make sure you have at least $65,000.

Not all embassies seem to accept assets in the foreign spouse's name, so maybe check in the Thailand specific forum. Also, some embassies want the foreign spouse to fill out an i-864a (even though the instructions says this shouldn't be done), whereas other embassies doesn't.

[Siam Sam 6]

We're using assets and I have had my interview. We have to submit a new i-864 before we can get a final decision but it looks like they're accepting our assets. When we filed at NVC, part of the assets where an apartment I owned. That had been sold in time for my interview.

The proof of assets I submitted at the interview were a letter from my bank stating the exact assets (cash in account and stock portfolio) I have with them in Swedish Kroner and USD. The letter also stated that I had been a long time customer at the bank and I think it said that I had had the assets for at least a year. The letter was signed by the bank manager and my account manager. I also submitted a stock portfolio statement from an online trading bank I use.

You need to have at least $60,000 in assets (property and cash is included here), but they don't like it if you're right on the limit so make sure you have at least $65,000.

Not all embassies seem to accept assets in the foreign spouse's name, so maybe check in the Thailand specific forum. Also, some embassies want the foreign spouse to fill out an i-864a (even though the instructions says this shouldn't be done), whereas other embassies doesn't.

Thanks. In property, we're well above the ratio. We own a quarter million dollars' worth of property. As for cash we have only just about exactly the 125% limit for Hawaii, but as I now know, that's considered an asset too and counted in the 3:1 ratio.

Thai property law is very restrictive regarding foreigners. I cannot own land, period, not under any circumstances. I can own a condo, but it must be proved the money for the condo was transferred here from abroad, and of total floor space in any condominium building, the majority must be Thai-owned. So all our property is in my Thai wife's name. I think USCIS here understands this, but the problem is the property is still an asset that cannot be moved to the US. No one in the Thailand forum has been able to give me any advice on this yet, and I'm still waiting to hear back from USCIC in Bangkok, whom I e-mailed yesterday for guidance. They've been pretty helpful in the past. But for now our filing is on hold.

Looks like it may be time to liquefy some assets.

[Siam Sam 6]

It's being pointed out to me over in the Thailand forum that the 3:1 ratio applies only to US assets. Foreign assets held outside the US must still meet the 5:1 rule even for a spouse's application. That's still no problem for us, as our property still meets the 5:1 ratio. But can anyone else confirm this is true? I don't doubt what I'm being told, but I find it strange it's not come up before.

[Siam Sam 6]

Heard back from USCIS, and they only said they could not provide legal advice regarding immigration matters. They suggested I contact an immigration attorney or accredited representative. We may have to do just that. The asset situation is the sole sticking point on our application. Even if we sell our home, there's still the matter of cash-transfer limits out of Thailand. I think we could probably get Bank of Thailand permission to move the money but will have to do some more research to be sure about that.

No worries. We expected speed bumps along the way.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Siam Sam

[Anh map 2,098]

The 5:1 ratio for foreign assets has been mentioned many times here on VJ. It's not in the Adjudicator's Field Manual (that I could find). That being said, it does make sense as the CO wants to be confident that if the I-864 was enforced enough money would be there.

If I were you I would liquidate whatever was needed and then transfer that money to a US account. That resolves the transferring money out problem, obtaining the proper asset valuation, the CO having to gauge the Bangkok real estate market, etc. . Have the paper trail for that money to submit along with the I-864.

[Siam Sam 6]

The money transfer issue seems not to be a problem after all. An American friend of mine who lives here tells me he transferred literally millions of baht out of here last year alone, to his US bank account. Said he's heard all the scare stories over the years too about how it can't be done, at least not easily, but they did it.

[mallafri76 1,012]

It's being pointed out to me over in the Thailand forum that the 3:1 ratio applies only to US assets. Foreign assets held outside the US must still meet the 5:1 rule even for a spouse's application. That's still no problem for us, as our property still meets the 5:1 ratio. But can anyone else confirm this is true? I don't doubt what I'm being told, but I find it strange it's not come up before.

Nope, if the assets are for a spouse then the ratio is 3:1 regardless of whether the assets are in the US or abroad. The key is also that any assets must be easily converted into cash within I believe a year, should it be needed. So you should be able to use the property in your wife's name and you don't have to sell it unless you need the money to live on once you're in the US.

[Villanelle 4,121]

Eh I dont know what a lawyer is going to be able to tell you. The rules are the rules and theres an amount of discretion involved in whether or not to approve the 864.

To use property for a spouse with you being a USC:

-Ratio is 3:1 however there have been people using foreign assets that were asked to show 5:1. Either way you are above that so it doesnt really matter.

-For property you need to have current appraisals, proof of ownership showing when it was obtained, proof of any loans or lack of loans. It is also helpful but not required to have a statement from a realtor saying the expected listing price/sale price and length of time (expected) to be on market. Remember they are looking to see not only if it can be converted to cash but if it is easily converted to cash. Anything that can be converted with in 1 yr with out significant financial loss is usually acceptable. Tying into that is being able to show you can access the cash- since it is international. According to this page - you shouldnt have a problem. https://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialMarkets/ForeignExchangeRegulations/FXRegulation/Pages/default.aspx You need to print something like that out highlighting your situation- you cant just say I know a guy who did it lol.

So what were you planning on doing with the properties? Were you going to rent them when you leave? Have family members reside there? Place them on the market promptly? Your answers can impact the decision. If there are rules about rentals and being able to sell during the rental agreement you may back yourself into a corner because then it may not be easily accessible with in a year. If your family is going to be residing there then they may look unfavorably at it as they can say its a hardship. They typically wont let you use your primary residence as an asset because if you are in need of the cash and liquidate it you are homeless. Thats a hardship. But selling the home out from family members- eh. Thats a discretionary call.

Your best option is to simply apply with what you have since you can not locate a co-sponsor. If you are denied- well Im sorry but its not the end of the world. Sure you lose your filing fee and will have to reapply after you sell the properties and have the cash on hand but you are talking about having a quarter of a million dollars in property that will be liquefied. Having to spend a few hundred dollars reapplying isnt going to hurt.

[Siam Sam 6]

Thanks all. We're undecided about selling our condo or renting it out once we leave. The townhouse is being lived in by some of her family, so we're not thinking of selling that. An acquaintance of mine in is an immigration-law paralegal in Chicago, and she's been giving me some tips. Says even if they don't like our assets, they'll give us a year to rectify matters, and by that time I may have a sufficient salary in Hawaii anyway. So yes, we're going to go ahead and file this week.

Thanks again.

EDIT: Almost forgot. As far as proving the value of our property, professional appraisers seem to be an oddity here. It looks like everyone just goes with the official value in the Land Office, and we can get their appraisal with no problem. But we'll check around some more.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Siam Sam

[gradtaai 8]

Thanks all. We're undecided about selling our condo or renting it out once we leave. The townhouse is being lived in by some of her family, so we're not thinking of selling that. An acquaintance of mine in is an immigration-law paralegal in Chicago, and she's been giving me some tips. Says even if they don't like our assets, they'll give us a year to rectify matters, and by that time I may have a sufficient salary in Hawaii anyway. So yes, we're going to go ahead and file this week.

Thanks again.

EDIT: Almost forgot. As far as proving the value of our property, professional appraisers seem to be an oddity here. It looks like everyone just goes with the official value in the Land Office, and we can get their appraisal with no problem. But we'll check around some more.

I had the same problem about getting my house appraised and went to the land office. The appraised price they give is far below what the house can be sold for. In my case, at least half. Bare land was appraised at about 1/8th of the local selling price. This next piece of info is not to get your hopes up. But someone I know put over $50,000 that he borrowed into his US bank account in one deposit. Maybe the interviewers slipped up and didn't notice it but it was excepted as an asset.

This was in Bangkok

Edited January 19, 2016 by gradtaai

[Siam Sam 6]

Thanks. I think I'd rather not go the sudden bank-account appearance route. But if the Land Office estimate proves low, I think maybe we can find a valid estimate from a realtor. Hopefully.

Otherwise I'll just have to do what I was planning to do anyway, and that is head to Hawaii first and find a job.

[mallafri76 1,012]

We just heard from the US Embassy about our assets and they require a new letter from our bank stating whether or not I have any loans with them. So yayyyy, let's get yet another signed i-864 form, think we're on our fifth form now... Anyway, part of the email from the US embassy also says that if we're using the value of my apartment (which doesn't apply to us because I've already sold it), I need to have the intent of selling it within a year from moving to the US. So that's something for you to consider when choosing which assets to include in the i-864. Apparently, it's not just that the assets need to be easily converted into cash within a year, you must actually have the intent to do so.

Also, include a signed letter explaining how you made the calculations in the different asset parts on the i-864. I.e. which assets went into part 7.6, part 7.7 and part 7.8.

I'll let you know when I hear anything more about our case and using assets.

[mallafri76 1,012]

-Ratio is 3:1 however there have been people using foreign assets that were asked to show 5:1. Either way you are above that so it doesnt really matter.

Unfortunately, this is what happens when people don't come prepared.

In my interview, the Swedish lady collecting all our documents tried to tell me that we needed 5:1 in assets and that I needed to fill out an i-864a if we're using assets in my name. But since I work in hospitality and always know to anticipate and prepare , I had brought with me the instructions for the i-864 and the i-864a and highlighted the important parts, such as the asset ratios and the part where it says I don't fill out an i-864. I argued back, showed her the instructions, she went away and spoke to someone (I assume the American actually doing my interview), then came back and said ok and moved on.

So that would be my recommendation for anyone using assets, bring with you the instructions for both the forms so you can refer back to that if there's any confusion. I don't think assets are used that often, so I'm sure there are a lot of consul workers who are not 100% sure how they work.

Edited January 22, 2016 by mallafri76