Foreign Assets

[Siam Sam 6]

We haven't even filed our I-130 yet but will do do soon. Our case is a pretty strong one, but there is one weak point -- the Affidavit of Support that will be needed with the interview down the line. It looks like we can just barely scrape together enough cash to show, just barely. A lot of our money is in property and bonds. Many of the bonds are not due for a few years and would entail a penalty to cash them in now, so that probably runs afoul of the rule I read that they must be convertible to cash within a year without a heavy financial loss.

Due to the restrictive nature of Thai property laws regarding foreigners such as myself, property is in my wife's name alone, but that should not matter since we're legally married. We own, or rather she does, our home. We need to get it appraised, but I know it to be worth at least $125,000. She also owns a townhouse worth at least that much. Counting our home alone, we'd have more than enough to meet the requirement even not counting any cash.

Questions:

1. I understand foreign assets "are not always accepted." What are people's experience with this? Have the Board Members here found foreign property generally to be disallowed? I undertsand they will have to be in a 5:1 ratio -- 3:1 in the case of a spouse? -- and that won't be a problem.

2. We have not decided yet if we're going to sell this place or rent it out. If we decide we need to sell it for the cash to meet the requirement, can we show that we are actively trying to find a buyer, like with a realtor's statement? (We do have a possible buyer lined up in fact, but that's not a sure thing. Just someone who's interested.)

3. My brother-in-law has offered to loan us the cash we need to make up the difference. I really don't like that, because that feels like it's skirting fraud. But if we don't meet the requirement, we'll come ridiculously close. I mean just a couple or few thousand dollars. (If we were planning to settle on the mainland instead of in Hawaii, this would not even be an issue.) How far back do they check the bank account? I'm assuming a large amount suddenly appearing would have to be explained.

[Anh map 2,098]

The loan won't work. For cash they want to see that you've held the money for a substantial period of time for the reasons you've stated above.

If the brother in law is willing to loan you money, is he willing to be a joint sponsor? That's what you really need. It would be much easier than working through property located in Thailand. The joint sponsor is in line behind you (the petitioner/primary sponsor) so the risk is slight.

[Siam Sam 6]

He's here in Thailand, not in the US. It's my wife's brother. So would he even be able to be a sponsor? We'd really prefer to work through property rather than have a joint sponsor.

Here's another issue with cash. My wife will at the end of this month receive some money from an inheritance. Her father died 15 years ago, but he owned a percentage of the shipping company that he and her brother worked for. The company is now in the process of closing down, and they've just now started selling the assets. They just sold their ship, and her father will receive a share of the profit from that. But again, he is deceased, so his estate gets it, and my wife's share from the estate will come to about $2800. Not much, but it will help. But it will also appear suddenly. I assume we will be allowed an opportunity to explain anomalies like that?

Another sudden cash appearance in the near future will be my recouping the amount I have paid into Thai Social Security for the past 22 years. In preparation for our move back to Hawaii, I'm leaving my position at the end of next month, and once I do that I will be able to get all of my Social Security contribution since I'm not retiring here, and this could amount to as much as $5400 from my contribution alone, not counting employers' contributions and interest accrued. That too will appear suddenly about the beginning of April. Again, I assume I will be able to show where that money came from?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Siam Sam

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

yes with small sums like that and good reasons, it will be ok. But remember that you need a MINIMUM of three times the poverty level in assets, so you are looking at $64'000-ish; those two small sums you mention are drops in the bucket.

[Anh map 2,098]

Foreign held assets / cash are up to the CO as to be accepted or not. If the bank account is in the US, it's better.

Just tell the story and supply as much documentation as to the source of the inheritance and social security. If it's legit, then don't worry.

If there are limits on how much money can be taken out of Thailand then that would also be considered.

Do some research in the regional forum or other websites about using assets to satify the I-864 at the Bangkok embassy.

[Siam Sam 6]

yes with small sums like that and good reasons, it will be ok. But remember that you need a MINIMUM of three times the poverty level in assets, so you are looking at $64'000-ish; those two small sums you mention are drops in the bucket.

Right, but the three-times rule applies to assets, doesn't it? Those sums would be cash. And added to the cash we have, that should put us past the requirement.

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

Right, but the three-times rule applies to assets, doesn't it? Those sums would be cash. And added to the cash we have, that should put us past the requirement.

Cash IS assets. As is property, shares, CD accounts, jewellery etc etc... anything except income is assets.

[Siam Sam 6]

Foreign held assets / cash are up to the CO as to be accepted or not. If the bank account is in the US, it's better.

Just tell the story and supply as much documentation as to the source of the inheritance and social security. If it's legit, then don't worry.

If there are limits on how much money can be taken out of Thailand then that would also be considered.

Do some research in the regional forum or other websites about using assets to satify the I-864 at the Bangkok embassy.

Unfortunately, I've not had a bank account in the US since 1993 or 1994. But the limit on cash taken out of Thailand is a thought. There is a limit, and I'll have to check on what it is. But I have used my Thai ATM card in ATMs in the US and other countries with no problem, and the daily withdrawal limit is about $1400.

Also, an English friend moving back to London soon with his Thai wife is similarly waiting for his Thai Social Security contribution to be returned. He'll be back in England when it's deposited into his account here in Bangkok. (It takes about a month.) But he has Internet banking set up and will be able to access it from there. I think in this day and age, taking money out is not much of a problem as long as you don't need a huge amount all at once.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Siam Sam

[Siam Sam 6]

Cash IS assets. As is property, shares, CD accounts, jewellery etc etc... anything except income is assets.

Right, but I thought for cash, I just needed 125% of the poverty level and that the three-times rule applied only to non-cash assets. Is that not correct?

If I'm going to need three times the poverty level in cash, then we definitely won't have enough and will have to rely on our property.

Looking at the HHS Poverty Guidelines on the USCIS website, 125% of the poverty level for Hawaii is $22,912.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Siam Sam

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

Right, but I thought for cash, I just needed 125% of the poverty level and that the three-times rule applied only to non-cash assets. Is that not correct?

If I'm going to need three times the poverty level in cash, then we definitely won't have enough and will have to rely on our property.

Looking at the HHS Poverty Guidelines on the USCIS website, 125% of the poverty level for Hawaii is $22,912.

That is not correct. Only income counts for the 125%, everything else, including cash, you need three times that amount for.

[Siam Sam 6]

That is not correct. Only income counts for the 125%, everything else, including cash, you need three times that amount for.

I see. Well, that is not good news. I'll be leaving my position at the end of February and will be doing some freelance work. Although the wife was a university professor for 30 years, her pension is small, just about $500 a month. We expect to do okay from my freelance work and her pension until it comes time to leave, but we thought having cash in hand was all that was required for the 125% rule.

That means a) we will have to hope property counts, as we easily have $250,000 worth, and I'll be researching whether that will be acceptable; or b) looks like it's time to sell after all.

But thank you for the info. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Anh map 2,098]

You will have to establish domicile in the US as well. Opening a US account with a significant amount will be one piece of that puzzle.

The cash is also considered at the 3:1 ratio.

[Siam Sam 6]

USCIS here in Bangkok told us it was not necessary to establish a domicile in the US yet. They said where it asks for the address we intend to live, just to write in "Unknown Address" and put the city and state.

However, this asset problem is going to delay our filing. If I can find an indication that they are apt to accept our property, then we'll go ahead and file. The property alone even without the cash more than meets the requirement, and our cash just about touches 1/3 of what we'll need under the 3:1 rule, so the property would only need to meet the other 2/3. Again, we're covered as long as they'll accept our property.

I see now the key word in the information for the Affidavit of Support is "income." USCIS also told me they did not take employment status into account, so I guess I just assumed that meant as long as we had the 125% in cash then we were in the clear. Ah well.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Siam Sam

[NikLR 13,227]

USCIS requirements and CO requirements on interview day will differ. One is DHS and one is DOS.

[Siam Sam 6]

Thanks all. I am glad I discovered this misapprehension I've been laboring under. We had hoped to file in the coming week, on Friday in fact. Now we'll delay that by at least a week or two, until I can determine the chances of our property's acceptability. Otherwise, we'll just have to sell. I may have to fall back on Plan B, which is to go to Hawaii myself and try to get set up there while my wife starts selling our home in Bangkok. Of course, doing that would probably entail having to file from inside the US.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Siam Sam