Happy Birthday To Great Britain's Increasingly Scandalous National Health Service

[Teddy B 17,251]

Several years back, I did a salary comparison with Canada. Using a head trauma nurse in Canada compared to an hourly employee making about $30 an hour. The nurse in Canada made about $150,000, the job in the US paid $63,000. But after all was said and done, and both paid their taxes, the income was about equal. If memory serves me correctly, it was within about $3,000 USD.

So while the "free" health care in Canada seemed great at first, it did come at a pretty high price. US pays monthly in premiums and by visit in deductibles, Canada paid monthly in taxes.

Not trying to compare the quality of the care by any means.

A 90K differential between incomes doesn't sound right Dave. The cost of living in Canada is not that much higher than the US. What were the parameters of your comparison?

[Merrytooth 5,748]

So ridiculous the healthcare system here:

Hospital charges $9,000 to bandage cut middle finger

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/09/hospital-charges-000-to-bandage-cut-middle-finger-report-says/

I could bandage my own finger for less than a $1.

[Merle 458]

What does thec cost and affordability of real estate have to do with the health care system?

Anyway, in ol' Germany people pay in the neighborhood of 15% for health insurance. Half is paid by employer and half by employee. There are no deductibles or co-pays - there were small quarterly co-pays but I believe they got rid of them again.

Insurance here is not paid as a percentage of income so those making less effectively pay a higher percentage than those making more. Looking at the average household income (~55K) and the average household health insurance cost (15K), the ratio is well above the 15% that folks in Germany pay. And then you still have deductibles and co-pays to deal with. It's a raw deal no matter how much cheaper a starter home in AZ might be.

The cost of real estate was just something I threw out there. I was just wondering about costs in the U.K to live compared to the U.S. Everything has trade offs. People in the U.S. have it pretty good in some ways and bad ither ways. If health care us free in the U.K. I was just wondering what the trade offs were. That's all.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

A 90K differential between incomes doesn't sound right Dave. The cost of living in Canada is not that much higher than the US. What were the parameters of your comparison?

Brother, I wish I could. It DOES seem pretty out of whack. It was just a girl I was talking to several years ago, and I was real impressed when she told me she made so much. Until we broke it all down. I know we discussed taxes and the CAD to USD conversion. But I cannot remember all the pertinent details... I am old, and have slept several times since then. Lemme Google a bit and see what I can find. Don't want to be putting out bad poop here...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Brother, I wish I could. It DOES seem pretty out of whack. It was just a girl I was talking to several years ago, and I was real impressed when she told me she made so much. Until we broke it all down. I know we discussed taxes and the CAD to USD conversion. But I cannot remember all the pertinent details... I am old, and have slept several times since then. Lemme Google a bit and see what I can find. Don't want to be putting out bad poop here...

She probably wanted you. You gotta watch out for those CABA chicks.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

She probably wanted you. You gotta watch out for those CABA chicks.

I know Dave in real life. Chick magnet

[Curmudgeon 227]

The issue with comparing health care in the US with any other comparable country is that we can't access properly the cost of untreated patients. In these countries people have access to preventive care, which may indicate that many conditions are treated before they become too serious and more costly to manage. With our health care system many people only seek treatment through ERs, when the ailment is already far too advanced to be controlled.

Exactly. In a system where everyone has access at the point of use, then there is none of this taking supplements to 'cure' arthritis etc. People go to the doctor, get the best medical interventions available and are able to live with reasonable health but crucially with zero anxiety on how to pay for it. In the US, many millions of people do go untreated until whatever condition they have reaches acute status. That is not a good way to manage health care or one's personal health.

[yuna628 9,528]

I've never experienced U.K. healthcare but I was wondering how high taxes are to pay for it? Say someone has the same type of job in the U.S. as they do in the U.K. would this person still bring home the same pay? I'm just curious because every time I hear mention of the NHS I hear about how high the taxes are to pay for it. What about the cost of living in the U.K.? Can a person making $50,000 a year in the U.K. afford to have a decent house in the suburbs like you can in the U.S?

It's hard to provide a simple answer for this question. Salary, cost of living etc very much depends on the area of the country you live in. You may be pleasantly delighted to find how much space for your meagre salary you could afford in the north. Go to the south and you couldn't survive in London. I suppose a comparable example is country living in the US vs say in a place like NYC. My fiancé makes a decent salary, enough I should think for us to both live comfortably, with a decent flat in his town. However his salary isn't enough for what the UK government says you can make in order for me to live there. Currency convert the figure and it makes even less sense. I am never sure how much is taken out of him in taxes, but I'm also fairly sure he would be paid more in the states for his line of work.

I've spent a great deal of time in the UK. I have a strong dislike for the high prices and taxes. Seen good things, bad things, and absolutely horrific things involving the NHS. The care you receive can also depend on the location of the country you live. 50,000USD comes to around 30/31,000GBP. I'd imagine depending on where you lived, you could exist fine enough. Not entirely sure you could actually BUY a house on that salary with a family in tow, but I expect you could rent a small house or a flat to the north.

In some of my family's experience in healthcare -- they have seen patients that fly to America to receive care for several reasons instead of using the NHS. The most common complaint is that they felt having to wait for their treatment for certain chronic conditions was a matter of life and death. Second was feeling as if their local specialists had no idea how to properly treat the conditions they had and they wanted the very best doctor's care stateside. Third was usually because that same doctor or specialist in the UK had bungled their previous care. In all of these cases -- the patients are usually wealthy. You'd have to be to afford coming here and getting special treatments even when your UK money goes further in the states. That often made me wonder why they did not seek out the very best hospitals in the UK itself. And then made me immediately empathetic at the poor who may be going through the same thing and have no other options.

America has some of the best doctors and hospitals that can stand toe to toe with more well known ones in Europe. It's our system that can be maddening to both patients and healthcare workers alike. Comparisons to the NHS and Obamacare always seemed unfounded if not insulting to the British... the two are not alike. Our system needs severe improvements that no one wants to provide a solution for. When my fiancé (who still loves the NHS and always will) complained of poor dental care, I took him to my dentist and got him fixed up. When he complained he had just been to an NHS eyedoctor and felt worse coming out than going in, I took him to see my eyedoctor. His glasses had been bungled so badly he needed a brand new pair. He's had nothing but positive experiences with our healthcare system, as much as he still loves the NHS. Both systems have major flaws and no solutions. We should be careful about humblebragging so much in America while dissing others and vice versa. We need to sort out our own houses first.

In the US, many millions of people do go untreated until whatever condition they have reaches acute status. That is not a good way to manage health care or one's personal health.

No it's not for sure. But I've seen people go untreated in the UK too. Money may not be the factor that keeps them away but other things might.

Edited October 31, 2014 by yuna628

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Exactly. In a system where everyone has access at the point of use, then there is none of this taking supplements to 'cure' arthritis etc. People go to the doctor, get the best medical interventions available and are able to live with reasonable health but crucially with zero anxiety on how to pay for it. In the US, many millions of people do go untreated until whatever condition they have reaches acute status. That is not a good way to manage health care or one's personal health.

I have some good friends. The husband recently lost his job. They canceled his insurance the day he got laid off. His wife was on Thyroid meds and some hormone therapy. She is a hot mess without h pills. Gaining weight hair falling out, and he is a type 2 diabetic and almost out of insulin. Too bad. Two tax payers been working 30+ years. Go home and die

[Curmudgeon 227]

It's hard to provide a simple answer for this question. Salary, cost of living etc very much depends on the area of the country you live in. You may be pleasantly delighted to find how much space for your meagre salary you could afford in the north. Go to the south and you couldn't survive in London. I suppose a comparable example is country living in the US vs say in a place like NYC. My fiancé makes a decent salary, enough I should think for us to both live comfortably, with a decent flat in his town. However his salary isn't enough for what the UK government says you can make in order for me to live there. Currency convert the figure and it makes even less sense. I am never sure how much is taken out of him in taxes, but I'm also fairly sure he would be paid more in the states for his line of work.

I've spent a great deal of time in the UK. I have a strong dislike for the high prices and taxes. Seen good things, bad things, and absolutely horrific things involving the NHS. The care you receive can also depend on the location of the country you live. 50,000USD comes to around 30/31,000GBP. I'd imagine depending on where you lived, you could exist fine enough. Not entirely sure you could actually BUY a house on that salary with a family in tow, but I expect you could rent a small house or a flat to the north.

In some of my family's experience in healthcare -- they have seen patients that fly to America to receive care for several reasons instead of using the NHS. The most common complaint is that they felt having to wait for their treatment for certain chronic conditions was a matter of life and death. Second was feeling as if their local specialists had no idea how to properly treat the conditions they had and they wanted the very best doctor's care stateside. Third was usually because that same doctor or specialist in the UK had bungled their previous care. In all of these cases -- the patients are usually wealthy. You'd have to be to afford coming here and getting special treatments even when your UK money goes further in the states. That often made me wonder why they did not seek out the very best hospitals in the UK itself. And then made me immediately empathetic at the poor who may be going through the same thing and have no other options.

America has some of the best doctors and hospitals that can stand toe to toe with more well known ones in Europe. It's our system that can be maddening to both patients and healthcare workers alike. Comparisons to the NHS and Obamacare always seemed unfounded if not insulting to the British... the two are not alike. Our system needs severe improvements that no one wants to provide a solution for. When my fiancé (who still loves the NHS and always will) complained of poor dental care, I took him to my dentist and got him fixed up. When he complained he had just been to an NHS eyedoctor and felt worse coming out than going in, I took him to see my eyedoctor. His glasses had been bungled so badly he needed a brand new pair. He's had nothing but positive experiences with our healthcare system, as much as he still loves the NHS. Both systems have major flaws and no solutions. We should be careful about humblebragging so much in America while dissing others and vice versa. We need to sort out our own houses first.

No it's not for sure. But I've seen people go untreated in the UK too. Money may not be the factor that keeps them away but other things might.

If it's 'other things' then it's a choice they make, for whatever reason, but I don't know of anyone that does that so I am not sure what you are referring to. Not being able to afford to get treatments for chronic illness is a ridiculous situation that is a common place one for many Americans.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/2013/07/05/happy-birthday-to-great-britains-increasingly-scandalous-national-health-service/

Great story. The predictions from those who opposed the UK, African and European implant who got into the White House through the front door came to pass. Social programs can be fun and feel good for a little while, but those who can balance a checkbook see it differently.

Edited October 31, 2014 by ExExpat

[Merle 458]

If it's 'other things' then it's a choice they make, for whatever reason, but I don't know of anyone that does that so I am not sure what you are referring to. Not being able to afford to get treatments for chronic illness is a ridiculous situation that is a common place one for many Americans.

My wife worked with a chick who owned two houses with her boyfriend, went on vacation about 3 times a year, and partied every weekend like it was 1999, but didn't want to pay for health insurance. because she said there was no way on earth she could afford it. She ended up needing some kind of surgery that costed her about $12,000 out of pocket and she was still adamant that she couldn't by any means, no way, no how afford to buy her own health insurance. It's all about priorities. I think it's funny that we needed a law to force idiots like her to take responsibility for themselves and buy health insurance.

[JohnR! 5,495]

And most, if not all of those who opposed and oppose the ACA fall into that category. They are all for personal responsibility for others, never for themselves.

My wife worked with a chick who owned two houses with her boyfriend, went on vacation about 3 times a year, and partied every weekend like it was 1999, but didn't want to pay for health insurance. because she said there was no way on earth she could afford it. She ended up needing some kind of surgery that costed her about $12,000 out of pocket and she was still adamant that she couldn't by any means, no way, no how afford to buy her own health insurance. It's all about priorities. I think it's funny that we needed a law to force idiots like her to take responsibility for themselves and buy health insurance.