"Stop blaming Israel and wake up: The black flag of jihad is the REAL threat to the world"

[rlogan 2,036]

people will use every excuse in the book in order to not educate themselves.

Cause it's easier for lazy people

Incessantly insulting people like this demonstrates you have the same kind of contempt for us that you do of the Palestinians.

It is no different from the attitude of the various white power groups or yes absolutely - the superior race ideology of the Nazis. There is no better comparison. Everyone else is beneath us. We do this because we're getting away with it. Nobody can stop us.

Yet, just like the Nazis, the people in power didn't represent well the interests of their people. They brought the Master Race to ruin. There is great irony in Israel acting as the oppressor after the Nazis were routed in WWII of course. That guilt complex over war crimes someone else committed has unfortunately let Israel's government go to far. The USA has sent endless billions of dollars, weapons, and other support there while looking the other way. Vetoing anything in the UN against Israel, lol what a joke.

But hey, I live in a nation that leads the world in some categories of hypocrisy.

[OriZ 3,157]

Incessantly insulting people like this demonstrates you have the same kind of contempt for us that you do of the Palestinians.

It is no different from the attitude of the various white power groups or yes absolutely - the superior race ideology of the Nazis. There is no better comparison. Everyone else is beneath us. We do this because we're getting away with it. Nobody can stop us.

Yet, just like the Nazis, the people in power didn't represent well the interests of their people. They brought the Master Race to ruin. There is great irony in Israel acting as the oppressor after the Nazis were routed in WWII of course. That guilt complex over war crimes someone else committed has unfortunately let Israel's government go to far. The USA has sent endless billions of dollars, weapons, and other support there while looking the other way. Vetoing anything in the UN against Israel, lol what a joke.

But hey, I live in a nation that leads the world in some categories of hypocrisy.

I have no contempt for the Palestinians...that's exactly the problem...you've got it backwards again.

Next.

A Brief note on Ancient history:

• Historians believe the Hebrews arrived in present day Israel sometime in the 2^nd millennium BCE.
• Under Joshua, and later King David and his successors, independent Hebrew Kingdoms existed
• For more than 1600 years the Jews formed the main settled population of what the Roman’s later called Palestine (Martin Gilbert).
• After The Roman’s gained control of the land in 135 CE Judea was renamed Palestine in order to de-Judaize it. It was renamed after the Philistines (Pagans) long before Islam became a religion.

The current situation in the Middle East begs for an understanding into how the shape of the Middle East has evolved over the past 150 years. An understanding of what the land was like, who lived there, the rulers, the conquerors and the politics behind it all give context to the situation today and any debate with regards to the current conflict.

Starting in the 1800’s before the first major Aliyot (Hebrew for immigration to Israel) from Europe, the land was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. The countries of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Israel and Saudi Arabia did not exist. The Land of Palestine, named by the Romans, after the pagan people (Plishtim) who lived there, was under this rule.

The land, which later would become Israel, was largely uninhabited. There were swamps and marshland; Malaria was rife, further inhibiting the habitation of the land. There was no speakable industry on the land. Absentee landlords, who lived elsewhere in the Ottoman Empire, owned large parts of the land. Mark Twain when he travelled through the land in 1867 wrote, “ There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation”. Out of cities which did exist, before the First Aliyah, there were those with a significant presence and often a Jewish plurality or majority. The cities of Safad, Tiberius, Hebron and Acre had significant Jewish populations and Jerusalem since the first population statistics were gathered in the early 19^th century had a Jewish majority. Arabs in Jerusalem rarely exceeded one quarter of the population. This all goes against current beliefs that Jews did not live in the land and came to occupy a land foreign to them.

The demographics of the land changed in the late 1800’s with the start of the Aliyot. In Europe at the time, violent anti-Semitism was on the rise. Jews began feeling less and less secure. This spurred the evolution of the mindset of Jewish Nationalism, Zionism. This was and is the desire for Jews to return to their homeland, the land promised to them in the bible, the land they inhabited and ruled over thousands of years before and the land where Jerusalem their spiritual, cultural and political home is. Jews realized that a homeland was the only way Jewish interests in the world could be safe guarded. Without a homeland, as would be proven during the Second World War, Jews were subject to the whims of often cruel rulers.

The First Aliyah in 1882 brought many of these hard working Zionists to the land. With the help of numerous wealthy European Jewish benefactors land was legally bought from the absentee landlords previously mentioned. They formed the first agricultural units, and began to develop this desolate land. The swamps were drained and Malaria was eradicated. These small farming communities or “Kibbutzim” began to sow the land for the first time in centuries.

This increased productivity in the land had a marked effect on the land. The increased productivity, started by the Jews, attracted more Arabs to the area. There was work on offer and other benefits these European Jews brought, such as health care etc. This previously disease stricken land, began to flourish.

Unfortunately many Arabs ignored the mutual benefits of this shared habitation. With the continuance of the Aliyot, bringing more Jews from Europe, the tensions between Arabs and Jews started to rise. The Arabs did not want this increase in the Jewish population, despite the clear benefits it offered. Attacks on the Jewish settlements increased. These attacks were not limited to the new settlers but also affected the Jews living in the traditionally strongly Jewish cities mentioned before.

A major change occurred in the new century, which spelled out what would largely shape the current Middle East and its politics. Following the First World War, the Ottoman Empire, which supported the defeated Germans, collapsed. The land comprising this volatile area was divided between the allied powers. New countries of Lebanon and Syria were formed, falling under a French mandate. Saudi Arabia and Iraq were formed. The land south of Lebanon and Syria, from the Mediterranean Sea in the West to Iraq in the East, South to the Red Sea fell under the British Mandate. This was the Land of Palestine. Not a sovereign state by any measure. A land, with mixed religious and ethnic background.

The British, through Lord Balfour, signed the Balfour Declaration in 1917. This stated the British aim to establish a Jewish homeland in this land. This Declaration was vehemently rejected by the Arabs. There were numerous revolts by the Arab population. As part of these revolts the Hebron Massacre of August 23 1929 occurred where 60 Jews were killed and the remainder were chased out of town. For the First time in centuries, Hebron was made empty of Jews. The synagogues were destroyed in an attempt to hide the Jewish link to this ancient city. These revolts culminated in the Great Arab Revolt of 1936. The Arab leader Haj Amin Al Husseini, who will be discussed again later, orchestrated this revolt.

The first “Land for Peace” deal was struck during this period between the British and the Hashemite Kingdom. In this deal the land to the East of the Jordan River would fall under the Hashemites, this inspite of its majority native “Palestinian” Arab population. This became the Kingdom of Trans-Jordan, later Jordan. Today Jordan is actually a majority Palestinian state, although a blind eye is turned on this fact.

With further migration of Jews from Europe to Palestine, the local Arabs put pressure on the British. Their revolts had the desired effect and the British started placing greater and greater restrictions on Jewish immigration. With the worst of these restrictions being the White Paper, which was issued in 1939. This policy paper passed by the government of Neville Chamberlain, rejected the findings of the Peel Commission in 1937, and declared there should be one state run by Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews, and also restricted the number of Jewish immigrants to 75000 over a 5 year period from 1940-44. The effect of this paper was tragic as during this same period in Nazi Germany, Jews were being slaughtered and their hope of escaping the gas chambers was denied by this British policy paper.

During this time Jews were being smuggled into the country illegally, bypassing the restrictions of the British. Following the 2^nd world war the Jewish population of Palestine realized that increased pressure needed to be placed on the British. This was the only way to force the British to give up their Mandate over the Land and pave the way for the Establishment of the Jewish State. The underground organizations, although with varying ideology, i.e. the Palmach, Haganah, Irgun and Lechi, each applied pressure in their own way, with varying degrees of violence and sabotage. These organisations sowed the seeds for Israel’s strong Defense Force. The increased pressure on the British had the desired effect; the League of Nations (precursor to the UN) Partition Plan of 1947 (Resolution 181) was passed. This plan essentially divided the land between the Jews and the Arabs of Palestine. Although not ideal, the Jews readily accepted this. The Arabs predictably refused. This essentially made the Resolution, and its proposed borders legally, null and void. This serves to discredit the Arab view that Israel occupies “Palestinian” land.

When the British Mandate ended, in 1948, David Ben Gurion declared the Independence of the State of Israel. This was with the support of the League of Nations. This makes Israel one of the few countries with a legal document confirming its sovereignty. As soon as the State of Israel was declared, the Arab neighbours attacked this fledgling state. Israel won the war of Independence and the line along which fighting ceased became the unofficial borders of Israel. No legally binding borders have ever been recognized.

Another point important to mention in the history of the land conflict between the Arabs and the Jews, is the Arab connection to the Nazis. During the 2^nd World War, the Arabs under the leadership of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini, supported the Nazis in their war efforts. The Grand Mufti was very close to Hitler, providing input into the Final Solution. He made broadcasts on the Berlin radio stations and planned to form Nazi-like youth and concentration camps in the Middle East. Jews, meanwhile were supporting the British in their war efforts. It needn’t be said but Hitler and the Nazis lost the war. In any war, those on the losing side forfeit their negotiating power in any subsequent peace discussion. They lose credibility. This further discredits the Arabs and their local claims even further.

In summary, this modern history of the Middle East, serves to rectify current thoughts of the formation of the Middle East as we know it. Many argue that the situation we are in now is independent of the History and should be solved ignoring the past. This is a dangerous viewpoint. We are our history, our history is us. Our history guides our future and without it we are nothing. Undoubtedly concessions on both sides have to be made in this conflict, but all negotiating parties must have an understanding of the History. An accurate history is also imperative as rewriting history to suit your perspective does justice to no one.

[rlogan 2,036]

I have no contempt for the Palestinians...

right, of course - say the opposite of what we're doing.

My president drops bombs in Iraq while saying the last thing we're going to do is more war in Iraq.

Who ya gonna believe, me - or your lying eyes?

[OriZ 3,157]

Israel is 'Choosing not to Win', Says British Expert

Barak Seener of RUSI says Israel 'should have gone in harder,' must reclassify human shields as combatants and stop aborting airstrikes.

Barak Seener, an Associate fellow at Britain's Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies, thinks Israel is “choosing not to win” the war in Gaza.

Seener – who has provided analysis and expert commentary for a range of international broadcasters and news outlets including the Associated Press, Al-Jazeera, BBC, CNN, Chinese CCTV, Fox News, Sky News,Voice of America, Bloomberg, Reuters and Xinhua – told Arutz Sheva that Israel is pursuing a misguided approach to the war, both on the ground and in the battle of words and images. The result will inevitably a deterioration of Israel's international standing, as the war wears on.

“In general,” he explained, “modern warfare is not geared towards protracted conflict, and thus Israel should have initially gone in harder. This was prevented by a lack of extensive sound intelligence of tunnels and the whereabouts of Hamas operatives. Israel's diplomatic standing will decline as Europe does not anymore understand the power of ideologies, let alone a genocidal, zero sum game Islamist and suicidal ideology.”

Is Israel's hasbarah effort regarding the effort to avoid civilian casualties doing any good?

“There is so much that has been reported in Israeli news outlets but has not been reported in European outlets. This includes Hamas executing Fatah members, children digging tunnels, concrete being redirected to building tunnels rather than hospitals and schools, the affluence of Hamas's leadership who divert funding to the Palestinians to their own personal accounts, even pictures of tunnels were reported by theWashington Post a few weeks earlier than Reuters.

“The main issue is that Israel should take exactly the same initiatives (not more) as Allied forces have done in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. While it is natural that Israel should seek to avoid civilian casualties, its priority is to its own civilians and soldiers. Israel has failed as there is a current stalemate of its civilians under attack, Hamas perpetuating its firing of rockets with Israel's economy having been hurt as a result.

“If Israel chooses not to win a war against Hamas decisively then it will continue to conduct reprisal attacks while emphasizing its avoidance of civilian casualties. If it seeks to win decisively then Israel will not cede the initiative and strategic surprise to Hamas by announcing beforehand where it plans to strike. This serves to embolden Islamism and provokes them to continue their practices of human shields and firing of rockets.

“Paradoxically, the only way to win decisively is by reclassifying human shields as combatants and demonstrating that Israel will not abort strikes or hand Hamas the initiative by announcing beforehand Israel's plans. It is tragic that civilians unwittingly find themselves as combatants, but this may be the only way to demonstrate to Hamas the futility of their current strategy of human shields, which has already caused their popularity to plummet in Gaza and the broader arab world.

“Imagine, had US forces announced to ISIS its strike plans and in turn handed to them the strategic initiative. It would be considered absurd! Israel has nothing to be proud of with such a morally dubious approach of letting Hamas know where and when it plans to strike. Israel should be consistent. If it resents being subjected to double standards, then it should not subject itself to norms and procedures that no military of any western liberal democracy would ever consider. The way Israel is conducting its measures against Hamas may create a precedent for allied forces abroad."

How does the conduct of the war tie in to the rise in anti-Semitism?

“Anti-Semitism has spiked in Europe. The unfortunate irony of Zionism is that while it was intended to be an antidote to anti-Semitism, it led to its mutation from an ethnic to nationalistic critique. In the past, Israel failed to call for an international condemnation of the PA's outlets that projected classical antisemitism and incitement.

“Only recently has Israel recognized the genocidal ideology driving Hamas, and there is no reason why the international community should be more catholic than the pope on this matter. Israel in the past took the initiative in reframing the conflict as nationalistic and territorial and thus willing to make territorial compromises. The international community merely followed suit. Furthermore, Israel also did not preemptively take to task bodies that disproportionately critiqued, and delegitimized the state of Israel.”

What is Britain's Jewish community doing about anti-Semitism and Israel bashing?

“There is a causal relationship between disproportionate criticism of Israel and an increase of anti-Semitism in Europe and it is impossible to address one effectively without the other. Representatives of the Jewish community in Britain have been severely wanting in countering anti-Semitism. Every campaign has sprung up from the grassroots, and has not originated or been coordinated by the Board of Deputies or Jewish Leadership Council.

“The former chief rabbi, Lord Jonathan Sacks, has condemned European anti-Semitism, but when he addresses the Middle East, the only thing he mentions is the plight of Christians. In this manner, he fails to effectively represent his constituencies' interests in the UK and represent his peoples' safety and security in Israel. Why should the non-Jewish leadership be any better than the Jewish leadership in the UK?”

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184387#.U_6QK_ldWSo

[OriZ 3,157]

Israel Boycotts cost 900+ Palestinians their job...and I'm the one with contempt...

wait, don't tell me, it's just a small price to pay for the larger goal....

the destruction of Israel

One of the biggest news stories that accompanied the start of 2014 was Scarlett Johansson being named as the global ambassador of SodaStream, an Israeli company based out of the West Bank settlement of Ma'ale Adumim, which develops home carbonation systems that allow users to convert tap water into sparkling water, in more than 100 flavors.

Fresh off of signing the contract with SodaStream, Johansson found herself quickly under fire for supporting a company in "occupied" Palestinian Territories, with New York Magazine referring to the company as "blood bubbles." Reza Aslan, a well-known writer and academic, later called Johansson a Nazi supporter for working with SodaStream.

The confrontation didn't end there, however. The SodaStream ad Johansson appeared in would end up almost being banned by the Super Bowl - though they claimed it wasn't political - and she would end up stepping down from her long-held post as global ambassador of Oxfam due to a "fundamental difference of opinion." Obviously, anti-Israel crusader Roger Waters alsocondemned the actress for her unwavering support of SodaStream.

In the days that followed, many argued that Oxfam was being hypocritical and that the waves of protesters who began advocating for the boycott of SodaStream would hurt both Israelis AND Palestinians. After all, 900 Palestinians were employed at the company's biggest plastics and metals factory in Ma’ale Adumim.

"Those who seek to help the Palestinians end up hurting us," said Nabil Bashrat, 40, a resident of Ramallah who worked at the factory.

"(The factory) provides income to hundreds of families, entire villages. Peace is what happens here inside, and not outside. Those who are abroad don't understand the relations and actually sabotage the process. The factory draws us closer. Even in times of instability, as was during the war in Gaza, everything was as usual here."

Unfortunately for Bashrat, however, and the other 900 Palestinian SodaStream employees, it seems the BDS supporters are more concerned with boycotting Israeli businesses who 'occupy' Palestinian settlements than helping the actual Palestinian people themselves.

Now, it seems the supporters finally have their wish: SodaStream has announced, in a reported non-political move, that they are opening up a new factory in a land that indisputably belongs to Israel (unless you're a member of Hamas or ISIS), near the town of Lahavim in the Negev.

This could potentially mean that, if they evacuate the West Bank factory, the Israeli company will no longer be "occupying" in there any longer. Good job, BDS supporters.

Oh, it would also mean that 900 Palestinians - the people you claim you're trying to protect here - are now out of a job.

The company will make the move sometime in 2015. While it will still practice its equal opportunity hiring practices, it seems more likely that the region's Bedouin and African communities will be reaping the benefits of employment as opposed to the Palestinians.

Great job BDS supporters. Way to help out those Palestinians you know and understand so much.

DISCLAIMER** We would like to thank everyone for reading and commenting on the article, and make a clarification: the company has yet to make an official statement regarding this situation (they have only announced the new factory), but, asIsraellyCool points out, its considered "common knowledge" that this may indeed happen. As stated above, the decision to move factories is non-political, and whether or not the Palestinian employees will be able to continue working with SodaStream remains to be seen. In this article, we are simply looking at what we believe will take place as a result of the BDS movement. Thank you.

http://www.shalomlife.com/business/25438/op-ed-bds-victory-over-sodastream-may-equal-900-palestinians-out-of-work/?PageSpeed=noscript

Edited August 28, 2014 by OriZ

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seriously, you need to cool off.

[OriZ 3,157]

Seriously, you need to cool off.

I'm not even lukewarm.

[Karee 4,189]

I'm thinking Ewok should start a separate forum for Israeli govt. propaganda, so Oriz can post away all day.

[OriZ 3,157]

Why a boycott is not possible:

Let's start with the conclusion: Israeli exports are not affected by the present economic boycott, nor will they be affected in the future. This is not because certain European consumer groups and the like are not trying – it is because the unique nature of Israel's exports simply does not allow for it. It's a logical concept on paper, but simply does not hold water in reality.

• Follow Ynetnews on Twitter

The most obvious example of how the boycott concept is unsustainable is Israel's trade relations with Turkey. In 2010, after Cast Lead, and the Mavi Marmara incident in particular, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan (who is now trying to change the laws in his country in order to become something akin to a sultan) demanded a boycott of Israel at every opportunity.

And lo and behold - just the opposite has happened. Trade relations with Turkey, both exports and imports, have jumped dramatically and are now at the highest level – and almost 100% rise since 2009, long before the Mavi Marmara.

Anti-Israel protest in Madrid, August 2014 (Photo: AFP)

No interest in Gaza

Israel's exports are driven by thousands of companies of all kinds, with the most diverse ownership and in a wide variety of markets, albeit with a low international profile. There is no Israeli company that is considered a global brand, and hence could be used as a clear indicator.

Many Israeli companies operate in niche areas, as an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) or as subsidiaries of foreign multinationals.

In addition, Israeli exports are almost never sold to the end consumer. In fact, this is the case for about 95 percent of Israel's exports, almost all of which are involved in business-to-business (B2B) trade with the large international corporations who are only interested in the best product or service at the most competitive price.

With all due respect to what is happening there, the attacks in Gaza are not a consideration in the cold world of business, nor is really of any interest.

Tough task

Staying away from McDonald's, IBM, Estee Lauder, Soda Stream, Johnson & Johnson, Motorola, Siemens, Danone, Kimberly-Clark, Intel, Timberland, Caterpillar, Victoria's Secret, Revlon and many other companies blacklisted by the organizers of boycott is not really possible for the ordinary consumer.

An exploration of the websites of these companies reveals the names of very few Israeli exporters, and a multitude of huge multinationals. Israel boycotters will struggle to find products in the supermarket or drugstore, given the sheer number of massive international companies that do business with Israel.

Some of Israel's farmers who export to Europe are in the boycotters' crosshairs, yet agricultural produce only constitutes about 2 percent of Israeli exports. They are now experiencing some difficulties, but know from experience that life will return to normal once the conflict is over.

It may be possible to reduce the existing damage somewhat by diverting goods to Russia, which is currently boycotting the entry of agricultural products from Europe.

Most of the impact is felt in the factories of Ariel and Ma'aleh Adumim, both viewed as problematic by in the EU due to their location beyond the Green Line.

It is extremely unfortunate that these companies are forced to endure such censure, but the scope of their activity, in relation to Israel's overall exports, is minute, and does not constitute even one thousandth of Israel's total GDP. Looking at it on the macroeconomic level, the damage of boycotting these factories is negligible to the overall Israeli economy.

It's time to calm down and free ourselves of this blind hysteria that is being promulgated, most likely for some political end or other.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4563597,00.html

Keep boycotting fruits and vegetables...

[OriZ 3,157]

I'm thinking Ewok should start a separate forum for Israeli govt. propaganda, so Oriz can post away all day.

The truth hurts. Finally someone is showing it to you and you don't know how to deal with it, that's understandable. I haven't seen anyone actually respond to any of the posts on the subject that they actually are about, it's always distract, divert, distort...never on topic, instead always whining that someone is posting too much, cause everyone knows that only they are allowed to post their propaganda and god forbid if anyone responds to it. Their reply will either be you post too much, or move on to a completely different subject, why, cause they have no good arguments.

I have lots more to post in the next few days. Stay Tuned. Or not. It's your choice.

[Karee 4,189]

I can't wait.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The truth hurts. Finally someone is showing it to you and you don't know how to deal with it, that's understandable. I haven't seen anyone actually respond to any of the posts on the subject that they actually are about, it's always distract, divert, distort...never on topic, instead always whining that someone is posting too much, cause everyone knows that only they are allowed to post their propaganda and god forbid if anyone responds to it. Their reply will either be you post too much, or move on to a completely different subject, why, cause they have no good arguments.

I have lots more to post in the next few days. Stay Tuned. Or not. It's your choice.

It has no effect on me because I have no interest in reading what you've posted - neither it seems does anyone else here. It's not a debate - you're just spamming the thread with article after article..

I know there's a threat posed by Islamic extremists, I just don't think that's a reason to not criticise Israel for it's actions in Gaza.

[OriZ 3,157]

If you have no interest in reading it that's fine - I don't force anyone to read what I post. I just put the information out there, if you choose to ignore it it's entirely up to you. Even if you told me that absolutely no one here reads it(which I know for a fact is not true) I would still do it. Why? Cause it needs to be done. Whether people want to take an interest in it or not the information still needs to be out there, due to the heavy propaganda of the other side which is trying to distort everything.

It's not a debate cause there is no debate - no one is trying to debate - they just want to keep avoiding replying to the point and instead stick to their version of things, and just smear an entire nation or worse. That's fine but I'll keep sticking to mine.

Sure there are things you can criticize Israel for - hell there are things I criticize Israel for, that is not the point. The point is some on this forum - and around the world - try to do alot more than that. They try to vilify and demonize. It's my duty to expose how ridiculous their claims are.

Edited August 28, 2014 by OriZ

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Dude, the premise of the OP is 'don't look at what Israel is doing because these ISIS people are worse'.

[Teddy B 17,251]

I'm thinking Ewok should start a separate forum for Israeli govt. propaganda, so Oriz can post away all day.

It must be all that fresh air in VT. We used to have another poster here from VT that was full of air too.