"Stop blaming Israel and wake up: The black flag of jihad is the REAL threat to the world"

[Jacque67 7,328]

I guess the U.S. is made up of a bunch of self-haters. I can't think of anyone that doesn't criticize the U.S. govt. for one reason or another.

Israel used to be made up of a bunch of self-haters too, I believe.

Guess times have changed.

[Karee 4,189]

Hmmm. OriZ might be really hot in the sack? Such persistence! Makes my knees wobble:)

You'd probably fall asleep before anything happened since he'd rattle off an hour long speech beforehand.

[Expat1 971]

Hmmm. OriZ might be really hot in the sack? Such persistence! Makes my knees wobble:)

Run for Congress. You'll get an annual test run - right around budget time.

[Expat1 971]

Another method by which to single out the Jewish state deliberately is pretending it was the only one ever involved in any sort of civil right violations of minorities during the first half and early part of the second half of the 20th century, cause we all know that none of that ever happened in America. Nice try. Next.

Wonder if the millions of muslims around the world that support Israel - there are many more of those than most people realize - also think of themselves as part of a Master Race? Or is it just they acknowledge the truth?

Here is just one of them.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727

Israel is not being singled out. ISIS is also savage and uncivilized and has no regard for the life or rights or property of others. Today. Not centuries or decades ago.

Nice club you're in.

"Millions of Muslims that support Israel?"

That's even funnier than your "Israeli humanitarian" posts

Yes, there ARE imaginary friends out there. Somewhere. Look at all the support rallies THEY are holding all over the world.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Expat1

[Jacque67 7,328]

This whole thread is worthy of a Monty Python skit!

[Expat1 971]

Israel used to be made up of a bunch of self-haters too, I believe.

Guess times have changed.

Amazing how that self-love spreads when you have a group of fascists in power

[OriZ 3,157]

Keep showing your true faces peeps, I'm loving it.

Next.

ACT has posted a set of statistics that demonstrates the real violence against Muslims, it is not Jews, Christians or even America that is leading the pack in Muslim Genocide, but rather other Muslims. These numbers (almost 10 million killed by other Muslims) defy rationality and surely anyone with half a brain can see where the real problem lies. Islam may or may not be a peaceful religion, but the people who dominate the religion and are the face that the world sees as representation of the religion, surely are far from peaceful.

“some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”

By Gunnar Heinsohn and Daniel Pipes,

FrontPageMagazine,

October 8, 2007

The Arab-Israeli conflict is often said, not just by extremists, to be the world’s most dangerous conflict – and, accordingly, Israel is judged the world’s most belligerent country.

For example, British prime minister Tony Blair told the U.S. Congress in July 2003 that “Terrorism will not be defeated without peace in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine. Here it is that the poison is incubated. Here it is that the extremist is able to confuse in the mind of a frighteningly large number of people the case for a Palestinian state and the destruction of Israel.”

This viewpoint leads many Europeans, among others, to see Israel as the most menacing country on earth.

But is this true? It flies in the face of the well-known pattern that liberal democracies do not aggress; plus, it assumes, wrongly, that the Arab-Israeli conflict is among the most costly in terms of lives lost.

To place the Arab-Israeli fatalities in their proper context, one of the two co-authors, Gunnar Heinsohn, has compiled statistics to rank conflicts since 1950 by the number of human deaths incurred. Note how far down the list is the entry in bold type.

Conflicts since 1950 with over 10,000 Fatalities*

1 40,000,000 Red China, 1949-76 (outright killing, manmade famine, Gulag)

2 10,000,000 Soviet Bloc: late Stalinism, 1950-53; post-Stalinism, to 1987 (mostly Gulag)

3 4,000,000 Ethiopia, 1962-92: Communists, artificial hunger, genocides

4 3,800,000 Zaire (Congo-Kinshasa): 1967-68; 1977-78; 1992-95; 1998-present

5 2,800,000 Korean war, 1950-53

6 1,900,000 Sudan, 1955-72; 1983-2006 (civil wars, genocides)

7 1,870,000 Cambodia: Khmer Rouge 1975-79; civil war 1978-91

8 1,800,000 Vietnam War, 1954-75

9 1,800,000 Afghanistan: Soviet and internecine killings, Taliban 1980-2001

10 1,250,000 West Pakistan massacres in East Pakistan (Bangladesh 1971)

11 1,100,000 Nigeria, 1966-79 (Biafra); 1993-present

12 1,100,000 Mozambique, 1964-70 (30,000) + after retreat of Portugal 1976-92

13 1,000,000 Iran-Iraq-War, 1980-88

14 900,000 Rwanda genocide, 1994

15 875,000 Algeria: against France 1954-62 (675,000); between Islamists and the government 1991-2006 (200,000)

16 850,000 Uganda, 1971-79; 1981-85; 1994-present

17 650,000 Indonesia: Marxists 1965-66 (450,000); East Timor, Papua, Aceh etc, 1969-present (200,000)

18 580,000 Angola: war against Portugal 1961-72 (80,000); after Portugal’s retreat (1972-2002)

19 500,000 Brazil against its Indians, up to 1999

20 430,000 Vietnam, after the war ended in 1975 (own people; boat refugees)

21 400,000 Indochina: against France, 1945-54

22 400,000 Burundi, 1959-present (Tutsi/Hutu)

23 400,000 Somalia, 1991-present

24 400,000 North Korea up to 2006 (own people)

25 300,000 Kurds in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, 1980s-1990s

26 300,000 Iraq, 1970-2003 (Saddam against minorities)

27 240,000 Columbia, 1946-58; 1964-present

28 200,000 Yugoslavia, Tito regime, 1944-80

29 200,000 Guatemala, 1960-96

30 190,000 Laos, 1975-90

31 175,000 Serbia against Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, 1991-1999

32 150,000 Romania, 1949-99 (own people)

33 150,000 Liberia, 1989-97

34 140,000 Russia against Chechnya, 1994-present

35 150,000 Lebanon civil war, 1975-90

36 140,000 Kuwait War, 1990-91

37 130,000 Philippines: 1946-54 (10,000); 1972-present (120,000)

38 130,000 Burma/Myanmar, 1948-present

39 100,000 North Yemen, 1962-70

40 100,000 Sierra Leone, 1991-present

41 100,000 Albania, 1945-91 (own people)

42 80,000 Iran, 1978-79 (revolution)

43 75,000 Iraq, 2003-present (domestic)

44 75,000 El Salvador, 1975-92

45 70,000 Eritrea against Ethiopia, 1998-2000

46 68,000 Sri Lanka, 1997-present

47 60,000 Zimbabwe, 1966-79; 1980-present

48 60,000 Nicaragua, 1972-91 (Marxists/natives etc,)

49 51,000 Arab-Israeli conflict 1950-present

50 50,000 North Vietnam, 1954-75 (own people)

51 50,000 Tajikistan, 1992-96 (secularists against Islamists)

52 50,000 Equatorial Guinea, 1969-79

53 50,000 Peru, 1980-2000

54 50,000 Guinea, 1958-84

55 40,000 Chad, 1982-90

56 30,000 Bulgaria, 1948-89 (own people)

57 30,000 Rhodesia, 1972-79

58 30,000 Argentina, 1976-83 (own people)

59 27,000 Hungary, 1948-89 (own people)

60 26,000 Kashmir independence, 1989-present

61 25,000 Jordan government vs. Palestinians, 1970-71 (Black September)

62 22,000 Poland, 1948-89 (own people)

63 20,000 Syria, 1982 (against Islamists in Hama)

64 20,000 Chinese-Vietnamese war, 1979

65 19,000 Morocco: war against France, 1953-56 (3,000) and in Western Sahara, 1975-present (16,000)

66 18,000 Congo Republic, 1997-99

67 10,000 South Yemen, 1986 (civil war)

*All figures rounded. Sources: Brzezinski, Z., Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the Twenty-first Century, 1993; Courtois, S., Le Livre Noir du Communism, 1997; Heinsohn, G., Lexikon der Völkermorde, 1999, 2nd ed.; Heinsohn, G., Söhne und Weltmacht, 2006, 8th ed.; Rummel. R., Death by Government, 1994; Small, M. and Singer, J.D., Resort to Arms: International and Civil Wars 1816-1980, 1982; White, M., “Death Tolls for the Major Wars and Atrocities of the Twentieth Century,” 2003.

This grisly inventory finds the total number of deaths in conflicts since 1950 numbering about 85,000,000. Of that sum, the deaths in the Arab-Israeli conflict since 1950 include 32,000 deaths due to Arab state attacks and 19,000 due to Palestinian attacks, or 51,000 in all. Arabs make up roughly 35,000 of these dead and Jewish Israelis make up 16,000.

These figures mean that deaths Arab-Israeli fighting since 1950 amount to just 0.06 percent of the total number of deaths in all conflicts in that period. More graphically, only 1 out of about 1,700 persons killed in conflicts since 1950 has died due to Arab-Israeli fighting.

(Adding the 11,000 killed in the Israeli war of independence, 1947-49, made up of 5,000 Arabs and 6,000 Israeli Jews, does not significantly alter these figures.)

In a different perspective, some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.

Comments: (1) Despite the relative non-lethality of the Arab-Israeli conflict, its renown, notoriety, complexity, and diplomatic centrality will probably give it continued out-sized importance in the global imagination. And Israel’s reputation will continue to pay the price. (2) Still, it helps to point out the 1-in-1,700 statistic as a corrective, in the hope that one day, this reality will register, permitting the Arab-Israeli conflict to subside to its rightful, lesser place in world politics.

http://wasteofmyoxygen.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims/

Now as far as Jewish terror attacks in Palestine in the late 30's and early 40's, people seem to be ignoring the fact that first, it began after decades of Arab attacks which killed hundreds, and second, warnings were given in many of the attacks giving people enough time to evacuate, so any comparison between that and Hamas is, yet again, ignorant and deceiving.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Is it possible for anyone to criticise the Israeli government for its actions in Gaza without being labeled a Jew hater?

Which arguments qualify for non Jew hater status?

[OriZ 3,157]

By Dr Nathaniel Cohen

Racism is defined by the Oxford Dictionary of English as the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities or qualities specific to that race; so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. It is also defined as prejudice, discrimination or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the above belief.

Few nations have experienced the same level of racism as the Jewish people have throughout history. Racism directed at Jews is termed anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism has been perpetuated in every generation and recorded since the founding of the religion about 4000 years ago. Moses, in fact is strongly associated with the very earliest stirrings of systematic anti-Semitism[1]. The Ur-Libel, the notion of Moses as an Egyptian priest who commanded the Jews to kill all the Egyptian sacred animals and set up an alien nation (Manetho circa 250 BC), became the fundamental matrix of anti-Semitism1. This same passage for instance, is reproduced twice in anti-Semitic works by Karl Marx.

The real galvanization of anti-Semitism as a mainstream idea began with the dawn of Christianity and in this article we will call it the first phase of anti-Semitism. The Catholic Church for many centuries labeled the Jews as the killers of their savior. In order to maintain this belief as to the sanctity of the savior, Jews were to be kept in abject poverty as evidence of the punishment bestowed upon them for their act. Jews were treated as subjects; they were afforded very few rights. They were kept uneducated and were not allowed to work. They were separated from society and often violently attacked with no form of recourse. Finally, as a part of the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965), the Roman Catholic Church under Pope Paul VI issued a declaration, which repudiated the belief in the collective Jewish guilt for the Crucification of Christ

The second phase of anti-Semitism began during the European period of enlightenment. This period marked the disassociation of states from religion. It marked the age of scientific progress, of philosophy and placed man on a new pedestal. It believed in the unification of man and left little room for religious practice. Jews wanted to embrace this new enlightenment period as it allowed them greater access to higher learning and other rights but Jews’ stringent adherence to religious practices antagonized these beliefs. It made Jews a “nation within a nation” and this was little tolerated. It caused them to remain as outsiders and face persecution.

The third phase of anti-Semitism began with the concept of races. This is the form of anti-Semitism perpetuated by Hitler and the Third Reich. The great change that occurred as a result of this third phase would prove to be catastrophic to Jewry. Previously during the first phase one could give up Judaism and convert to Christianity, as it was purely the religious belief that was the issue. During the second phase Jews could hide their religion and function normally within that society and practice behind closed doors because once again the religion itself and the resultant limitation in the assimilation to the ideals of unification of man were the concerns. With the third phase however, Jews were a race. Jews carried genetic material, which made them who they were. This could not be changed no matter what religion the Jew converted to, what his outside appearance was and how dilute his genetic material was through inter-marriage. This was not isolated to Jews, indeed blacks, gypsies etc. were all persecuted under the definition of race. This phase of anti-Semitism was expressed through the Holocaust during World War II, when six million Jews were systematically exterminated just for being Jewish.

Following the horrors of the Holocaust, the words racism and anti-Semitism became taboo in many societies. Is it possible that after all these centuries, indeed thousands of years, anti-Semitism would simply disappear? Is it possible that this resentment of Jews would dissolve into nothing and Jews would become a nation treated like any other? Sadly the answer to these questions is an emphatic NO!

Anti-Semites needed to find another outlet for this hatred, which has been ubiquitous throughout Jewish history. Unfortunately the wait would not be a long one. The gift of Zionism and Israel landed in the Jew haters’ lap. Before delving into this let us define Zionism. This is the desire Jews have had from the destruction of the second temple 2000 years ago and the exile that followed, to return to their homeland, the land promised to them in their bible. It is a dream of Jews to have self-determination, just as any other nation on earth has a right to.

Today people use anti-Zionism and anti-Israel as a guise for anti-Semitism. They attempt to separate the Jew from Israel and Zionism to give plausibility to their thinly veiled anti-Semitism. People may ask, can one not criticize Israel without being deemed an anti-Semite? Of course one can, but that criticism must be examined. If the criticism is disproportional to criticism of similar or worse actions by other states then it is anti-Semitism. People who criticize Israel tend to ignore atrocities happening elsewhere. They demonize a democratic Israeli government while ignoring the dictatorships, which abound along Israel’s border and elsewhere. These people criticize Israel when she attempts to defend herself while ignoring the precipitating events and the threats to Israel’s citizens and existence. When one country, namely Israel, above all others is singled out for criticism, this is anti-Semitism.

According to the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) definition, regardless of the motive, anti-Zionist and anti-Israel criticism become anti-Semitic when they entail:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self- determination;

• Applying double standards to Israel;

• Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism to characterize Israel or Israelis;

• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis; or

• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Holocaust denial has also become a very popular form of anti-Semitism and delegitimisation of the State of Israel. Numerous British Members of Parliament2 have been deniers of the Holocaust and most recently and vehemently the President of Iran, Ahmadinejad.

According to the EUMC Working Definition of Anti-Semitism, contemporary examples of this form of anti-Semitism include:

• “Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g., gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of Nationalist Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).”

• “Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.”

In addition, according to the EUMC, an example of how anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel includes:

•“Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”

There are abounding examples of the above in mainstream media, governmental institutions and government sanctioned media, anti-Israel rallies etc. The Star of David, a symbol of Judaism and Israel, is equated to the Nazi Swastika. Traditional Jewish anti-Semitic caricatures are used to depict Israel in a negative light. This occurs not only in the Middle East but in European media as well.

Gradually this new form of anti-Semitism is being recognized and labeled as such. Racist hatred has always started out as verbal and print before becoming institutionalized and violent, and must therefore be stopped. Liberal academics hide behind the guise of human rights and their famous institutions while spewing vitreous hatred of and libelous claims about a people and their land.

As Martin Luther King Jnr. Stated at Harvard University in 1968 “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism”

[1]“A History of the Jews” by Paul Johnson

2In the United Kingdom in July 2006, Sir Peter Tap- sell, a Tory Member of Parliament (MP), told the House of Commons that Israel’s actions against Hezbollah in Lebanon were, “A war crime gravely reminiscent of the Nazi atrocity on the Jewish quarter of Warsaw.” In reply, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett rejected his allegations entirely. In October 2006, another Tory MP, Andrew Turner, suggested to the House of Commons that Israel’s actions in “at- tacking civilians from the air…were the tactics of the Nazis in 1939 and 1940…” In response to criticism, including from his fellow MPs, Turner later apologized for his comments

http://reclaimingtruth.info/antizionismantisemitism/

[OriZ 3,157]

Is it possible for anyone to criticise the Israeli government for its actions in Gaza without being labeled a Jew hater?

Which arguments qualify for non Jew hater status?

Already covered that throughout these pages.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who here is blaming all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government?

Already covered that throughout these pages.

Somewhere in the 5000 essays you've pasted here?

I'm asking you for your opinion

[Karee 4,189]

Keep showing your true faces peeps, I'm loving it.

Next.

http://wasteofmyoxygen.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims/

Now as far as Jewish terror attacks in Palestine in the late 30's and early 40's, people seem to be ignoring the fact that first, it began after decades of Arab attacks which killed hundreds, and second, warnings were given in many of the attacks giving people enough time to evacuate, so any comparison between that and Hamas is, yet again, ignorant and deceiving.

So the Israelis come in at #50 on that list. They're not quite as good at massacring civilians as Nicaragua, but a bit better at it than the North Vietnamese. Not sure if I'd run around singing their praises the way you do.

[decocker 7,198]

So the Israelis come in at #50 on that list. They're not quite as good at massacring civilians as Nicaragua, but a bit better at it than the North Vietnamese. Not sure if I'd run around singing their praises the way you do.

you're supposed to say, next.

[Karee 4,189]

you're supposed to say, next.

I didn't get the memo.

[Expat1 971]



By Dr Nathaniel Cohen

Racism is defined by the Oxford Dictionary of English as the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities or qualities specific to that race; so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. It is also defined as prejudice, discrimination or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the above belief.

You actually have a good point here. I actually read this and I also despise racists. I am not sure that you should probably be the best one to wave this flag but you are welcome to throw up a "post blockade" if you do not wish to comment on application of Jewish law (or you can simply deny it) to non-Jews. Some examples: Doctors can treat Jews but not non-Jews on the Sabbath. There is no liability for damage to a non-Jew's property. Non-Jews cannot act as witnesses.

Note, for example, Israel Meir Kagan (1838–1933), known as the Hafetz Hayyim, who opposed the behavior of Jewish doctors who do not distinguish between Jews and non-Jews:

"And know that most doctors, even the most religious, do not take any heed whatsoever of this law, for they work on the Sabbath and travel significant distances to treat a non-Jew, and they grind medicine with their own hands. And there is no authority for them to do so" (Mishneh Berurah on O.H. 330).

if a Jew's ox gores a gentile's ox, there is no liability, but if a gentile's ox gores a Jew's ox, whether the ox has a history of goring or not, full compensation has to be paid…" (Bavli Bava Kamma 38a).

Other rules assume that gentiles are, at best unreliable and at worst malevolent and violent. For this reason, a gentile is grouped together with dishonest butchers, gamblers, usurers and thieves who cannot act as witness (Shulhan Arukh Hoshen Mishpat 34).

Of course some of the Jewish scholars are wise enough to realize and even spell out that behaving this way towards others, or being racists in other's communities, really doesn't make you welcome. A very wise comment on the "doctors can treat Jews but not non-Jews on the Sabbath"

"All must appreciate that a [refusal to treat a non-Jew on the Sabbath] would now be totally unacceptable in every country known to us…[The opinion of the Hafetz Hayyim] is surely not in consonance with the current social condition...If it should be reported that a Jewish physician refuses to treat a non-Jew on the Sabbath while he does treat his fellow Jews, true animosity (eivah) will result to the great detriment of the Jewish inhabitants" (Igrot Moshe, Orah Hayyim 4:79).

That's pretty wise. In writing it however there is an admission of it's existence. No comment on the fact that the rule is only reversed because of how it affects "Jewish inhabitants" and not because it's inherently racist and wrong.

But the religions nutjob Zionist settlers are hard-core aren't they. No exceptions, follow the law. Therein lies the problem. Unless you want to spend the next decade defending these laws right here on these boards I would suggest you find another direction to take this thread. Though there are inequities in our legal system we do not pre-determine the outcome of a case simply based on a person's ancestry or religion. Other than Israel and ISIS there are few places on the planet who do.

So I guess, coming from one of the most extreme racist societies on the planet, you aren't in a position to either discuss racism here OR whine about the consequences of making racism a day-to-day practice. Treating others as lesser than oneself, as the scholar pointed out, results in detriment to your community no matter who you are or what your background is.

"Next"

Edited August 31, 2014 by Expat1