I-864 vs I-864A Question

[Snipe 21]

Hey guys, so I have been getting some conflicting answers in NVC thread about what form to use as part of AOS. I appreciate the help given there to those who responded but that thread has dozens of post per day, so I thought I'd ask here to clarify once and for all.

By the way perhaps in the future we can make a FAQ for AOS since right now there isn't enough information in my opinion in current wikis and FAQs. I several others ask AOS questions, some went completely ignored (probably again to massive amount of post in that thread) , but anyways to my question


I am petitioning for my wife. I live with my father and mother (same house). I want my father to sponsor me because I am student and do not work.

My father files taxes Married Filling Jointly and declares me as dependent. (my mom doesn't work so all income is from my father)

I petioner must file an I-864. But should my father file an I-864A or a I-864.

Also, I was thinking to include W-2 form to specify my mom doesn't receive income, but regardless since they file MFJ should she fill another I-864A? If so in my I-864 what should I put for household size in item number 7?

Now a totally separate question about AOS,

my father didn't file taxes in 2011 so I will put a see attached explaining why (not enough income), but in 2012 he filed taxes and it was like really low (basically he didnt work for 1.5 years and vacationed). Fortunately he worked all of 2013 and is back to necessary income for sponsor and i have tax transcripts, but its still not that much over requirement. However, starting 2014 he began to receive a pension, this obviously doesn't reflect on latest taxes. But I think it may make it seem more secure and put a much larger buffer between minimum requirement and what he earns. How could I include that and should I. right now his sponsorship will be enough to put us above the requirement, but not by a lot and I worry they will see that 2012 and 2011 was below requirement and perhaps warrant a delay. What do you guys think I should do?

Thanks again for the help here and previous help given in NVC thread and I wish you all the best in your journeys!

[dwheels76 5,468]

Hey guys, so I have been getting some conflicting answers in NVC thread about what form to use as part of AOS. I appreciate the help given there to those who responded but that thread has dozens of post per day, so I thought I'd ask here to clarify once and for all.

By the way perhaps in the future we can make a FAQ for AOS since right now there isn't enough information in my opinion in current wikis and FAQs. I several others ask AOS questions, some went completely ignored (probably again to massive amount of post in that thread) , but anyways to my question

I am petitioning for my wife. I live with my father and mother (same house). I want my father to sponsor me because I am student and do not work.

My father files taxes Married Filling Jointly and declares me as dependent. (my mom doesn't work so all income is from my father)

I petioner must file an I-864. But should my father file an I-864A or a I-864.

Also, I was thinking to include W-2 form to specify my mom doesn't receive income, but regardless since they file MFJ should she fill another I-864A? If so in my I-864 what should I put for household size in item number 7?

Now a totally separate question about AOS,

my father didn't file taxes in 2011 so I will put a see attached explaining why (not enough income), but in 2012 he filed taxes and it was like really low (basically he didnt work for 1.5 years and vacationed). Fortunately he worked all of 2013 and is back to necessary income for sponsor and i have tax transcripts, but its still not that much over requirement. However, starting 2014 he began to receive a pension, this obviously doesn't reflect on latest taxes. But I think it may make it seem more secure and put a much larger buffer between minimum requirement and what he earns. How could I include that and should I. right now his sponsorship will be enough to put us above the requirement, but not by a lot and I worry they will see that 2012 and 2011 was below requirement and perhaps warrant a delay. What do you guys think I should do?

Thanks again for the help here and previous help given in NVC thread and I wish you all the best in your journeys!

On your Household size

You

Spouse

Your dads Household size

You

Mom

Dad

and anyone else they claim on takes.

You will fill out a I-864 and submit most current tax transcripts or explanation why you didn't file.

And your dad fills out also a I-864 be sure to order tax transcripts that shows everything. And of course all the other documents

Straight from the NVC Process Wiki Saylin wrote up attached to the NVC filers thread. http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/NVC_Process

"Using the I-864A is for spouses of joint sponsors who are deciding to contribute their income as well. So, in these cases, the petitioner would file an I-864, the main joint sponsor would file an I-864 as well, and then the joint sponsor's spouse would file an I-864A". You don't fit this profile so mom doesn't do this

You need to check with your embassy and see how they are about previous year income and current. Some embassies only care about what you are making now. Some will put you in AP and make you get another CO-sponsor that meets last year and this year. Be ready to maybe have another co-sponsor. remember even though NVC accepts your documents (Thats all they do they do not approve) The CO at embassy may deny documents.

[Ryan H 3,813]

Forms to file:

You: I-864

Your father: I-864

[Snipe 21]

So that's what I thought at first, but the part that still makes me doubt about if I should do a I864A is the following:

From I-864 instructions on USCIS website: http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-864instr.pdf

Page 5 of 13, at the middle of the page it says:

"4. Item Number 7.

This question gives you the option of including certain other non-dependent relatives who are living

in your residence as part of your household size. Such relatives may include your mother, father, sister, brother or

adult children, if they are living in your residence. However, the only reason to include these family members in your

household size is if you need to include their income when you calculate your household income for purposes of

meeting the income requirement for this form. To be considered, any relative indicated in this category must sign and

submit Form I-864A."

So since my father lives in same residence as me I would assume he is in the same household and I could just do my I-864 and then for him only an I-864A

Can anyone clarify on that please?

I am siding towards doing what dwheels76 said since it seems to cover all my bases regardless of residence, but it's bothering me ya know.

What do you guys think?

[Snipe 21]

(I was editing the post but I guess I took too long)
here is rest of post:

I am siding towards doing what dwheels76 said since it seems to cover all my bases regardless of residence (each file I-864), but the advantage of doing it with an I-864A for my father is that in my I-864 I can add his income and it makes it look better than my I-864 being all in O's (no income, no assets) and my father providing the full sponsorship. Basically I want interviewer to see I am living with parents and not magically surviving on my own without any income at all. That way I think there is a lower chance of asking for another sponsor based on my father's income not being so much higher than the required income.

What do you guys think? I just want to do the right thing and not merit a delay.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

The I-864A is used for a qualifying household member to combine their income with that of the sponsor filling out an I-864 in order to reach the income requirement together. You do not work, so no income for any household member to combine with. Your father should fill out his own separate I-864 as he is basically the 'head of the household' and claims you as a dependent.

He includes his pension income by adding it with his current annual income amount and listing his total income amount. Provide a letter from employer and/or most recent pay stub(s) and proof of income from pension to prove his current income amount. That is, if the pension is on top of his income. If he retired and is receiving only the pension now, then that income must be enough to sponsor for his household size plus the intending immigrant.

[NikLR 13,227]

You're not trying to make yourself look better. You're trying to do it correctly and make sure there is a qualified joint sponsor.

[pushbrk 12,975]

The I-864A is used for a qualifying household member to combine their income with that of the sponsor filling out an I-864 in order to reach the income requirement together. You do not work, so no income for any household member to combine with. Your father should fill out his own separate I-864 as he is basically the 'head of the household' and claims you as a dependent.

He includes his pension income by adding it with his current annual income amount and listing his total income amount. Provide a letter from employer and/or most recent pay stub(s) and proof of income from pension to prove his current income amount. That is, if the pension is on top of his income. If he retired and is receiving only the pension now, then that income must be enough to sponsor for his household size plus the intending immigrant.

This is the correct answer except that Mom needs to provide an I-864a if they file taxes jointly. Don't use a transcript for 2013 in this kind of case unless you also include Dad's W2, showing all the income in 2013 is his. Best to include complete tax return and W2's etc. for 2013.

Dad's current income comes from annualizing his income from a pay stub, then adding the annual amount of the pension. Document current income with pay stub and pension declaration of benefits.

[Snipe 21]

Understood, So I filled out I864 for myself and one for my father. Then I drafted letters for myself stating I didnt earn anything and didnt file taxes at all last 3 years because i didnt meet threshold and I also wrote one for my father for 2011 stating he didnt earn any income that year and was "out of the country."

I also didn't check the checkbox asking if I filed for all last 3 years on either form.

My I864 is basically all zeroes except for bank account but my father's is def above the threshold. My only concern right now is household size,

In my I864 put 2 (me and wife (immigrant)) and for my father I864 I put (dad, mom, me(im dependant so must be listed), and my wife (immigrant),

So between both it makes it seem as its a total of 6 people, is that right?

I think that's it and I am ready to send the AOS as long as all of the above is right.

I appreciate everyone's help very much! Maybe I can contribute by posting here my 'did not file taxes letter' I wrote since i couldn't find a nicely formatted sample one in the forums. but ill wait until It's accepted ofcourse

thanks again guys and if you ever come to Vegas I promise to tell you the best slot machines

[pushbrk 12,975]

No, it doesn't seem like 6 people at all. For people familiar with these forms, they'll know there are only four individuals, two of which apply to your household but all four of which apply, in this context, to your fathers household.

Sounds like you're ready, but personally, I recommend checking the box and writing the short explanation right on the form, where they will be looking for it. If you want to send a separate letter, I would at least write "see attached letter" in the area they are expecting to see the missing numbers.

Edited April 16, 2014 by pushbrk

[Snipe 21]

I wanted to report back that I got a case complete without checklists by following your guy's advices and not using the I864A.

Once again I appreciate the help very much and again, I hope maybe this will help others who are in similar situation do the right choice,

thanks

Edited June 3, 2014 by Snipe

[Paul&Halee 0]

Hey guys. Long time lurker firs time poster.

I'm in a similar situation to the above and hence why I'm hijacking this thread instead of starting a new one.

My wife (petitioner) is living with her father (joint sponsor) and her mother. My situation differs in that her mother in this case is included on their jointly filed tax returns with some income, but her father makes enough to be a single joint sponsor.

So although her mother won't be the joint sponsor does she need to complete and sign an I-864A or any other documents as she's included on the tax returns I'm going to be using as evidence?

As I understand it the forms I need to submit are 1x I-864 for my wife (petitioner) and 1x for her father I-864 (joint sponsor)... correct?

[pushbrk 12,975]

I wanted to report back that I got a case complete without checklists by following your guy's advices and not using the I864A.

Once again I appreciate the help very much and again, I hope maybe this will help others who are in similar situation do the right choice,

thanks

Case complete at NVC, is not an approved visa. The Consular Officer may still request an I-864a. Even if they don't, providing one was still the safe and prudent course of action. NVC can disapprove an affidavit of support but they can NEVER "approve" one. The public charge judgment call is made at the Consular IV Unit, ALWAYS.

Hey guys. Long time lurker firs time poster.

I'm in a similar situation to the above and hence why I'm hijacking this thread instead of starting a new one.

My wife (petitioner) is living with her father (joint sponsor) and her mother. My situation differs in that her mother in this case is included on their jointly filed tax returns with some income, but her father makes enough to be a single joint sponsor.

So although her mother won't be the joint sponsor does she need to complete and sign an I-864A or any other documents as she's included on the tax returns I'm going to be using as evidence?

As I understand it the forms I need to submit are 1x I-864 for my wife (petitioner) and 1x for her father I-864 (joint sponsor)... correct?

Please don't hijack topics. No, that's not the correct combination. Provide an I-864a from the joint filing spouse too.

[Snipe 21]

I'll be sure to update after interview.

I did add the attached letter explaining taxes as sugested for both me and sponsor along with w2 and an employment letter and a pension letter.

i did not do an i864a for my mom but to be safe as you said ill have my wife have one ready to present if requested at interview.

does that sound good?

[pushbrk 12,975]

Yes.