Visa Waiver Program for Ukraine

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I mean, there actually is an immigration aspect to this thread.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

There are probably no fishy people on the current list of 27 countries in the VWP.

Well, over 26% of visa seekers from Ukraine are deemed fishy, and less than 3% of visa seekers from VWP countries are deemed fishy. Most of that 3% are probably denied ESTA because of criminal activity or overstays or the like. Is that hard to understand?

[Karee 4,189]

Yes, of course it would. The question is how many. There are a few bad apples in any bunch but I do not think the number would be significant. Ukrainians are proud of their country and not looking to escape.

Well that's the whole point. In order to implement VWP, I belive the visa refusal rate has to fall below 3%. The reason the visa refusal rate for most contries is so high, is that people come to the U.S. on tourist visas and don't go back or work when they're not supposed to etc. Again, the U.S. govt is not the party at fault here. It's all the people who have violated the spirit of the tourist visa.

I also don't think people should be able to come here on a tourist visa or VWP, get married, and adjust status. I think that's an abuse of the system. I know alot of people on VJ have done it that way, but I think that's a loophole that should be closed. Either open it for everyone (not likely) or close it for everyone.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I mean, there actually is an immigration aspect to this thread.

This topic started in the tourist/work visas forum. Seemed appropriate. Weird a topic about tourist visas gets moved from a forum that is specific for tourist visa's.

[Karee 4,189]

Well, over 26% of visa seekers from Ukraine are deemed fishy, and less than 3% of visa seekers from VWP countries are deemed fishy. Most of that 3% are probably denied ESTA because of criminal activity or overstays or the like. Is that hard to understand?

Bingo. Like I said previously, dont take out on the U.S. govt. Not their fault. Take it up with all the folks from Ukraine that broke the rules previously.

This topic started in the tourist/work visas forum. Seemed appropriate. Weird a topic about tourist visas gets moved from a forum that is specific for tourist visa's.

Mods excercising their authority over the rest of us. Just in case we forgot who's boss around here.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Bingo. Like I said previously, dont take out on the U.S. govt. Not their fault. Take it up with all the folks from Ukraine that broke the rules previously.

Mods excercising their authority over the rest of us. Just in case we forgot who's boss around here.

It is related to current events, but more appropriately related to tourist visa's.

All I can think is that maybe Ukraine getting into the VWP is so far fetched that moderation thought it was a joke.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Dakine10

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

It is really expensive to deport people. Like $10K per person or something. It's more fiscally responsible to prevent fishy people from getting here than using taxpayer money to detain and deport them. Why should the US agree to pay $10K to deport people as a show of "solidarity"?

Screening out potential overstays (or those who fit the profile of overstays) is truly cost-effective. The reality is the number of overstays who will get deported is so ridiculously low that implementation of stringent (perhaps overly stringent) criteria for tourist visas is just common sense. One can feel for the plight of the Ukrainian people without opening the door to them and propping it open.

My Ukrainian-American friend laughed his bottom off just now when I asked him about whether Ukraine should be eligible for VWP. That may be one Ukrainian's opinion, but it doesn't seem too outlandish.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Screening out potential overstays (or those who fit the profile of overstays) is truly cost-effective. The reality is the number of overstays who will get deported is so ridiculously low that implementation of stringent (perhaps overly stringent) criteria for tourist visas is just common sense. One can feel for the plight of the Ukrainian people without opening the door to them and propping it open.

My Ukrainian-American friend laughed his bottom off just now when I asked him about whether Ukraine should be eligible for VWP. That may be one Ukrainian's opinion, but it doesn't seem too outlandish.

Yes, I thought it odd that this thread is like "if you don't want VWP for Ukrainians, you think they are all dumb and don't respect them and are pro-Putin."

[Dakine10 5,452]

If this goes far enough, we'll see the huge difference between US foreign policy and domestic. Well send billions in monopoly money and endorse Bugs Bunny for president in Ukraine if it furthers our interest in the region. Try to bring those problems here and thats where the buck stops.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Europe was shown to be as irrelevant to world politics as most of us have long suspected, and the US has been too afraid to confront its former cold war enemies directly. This is just not Obama's fault, but he is the current poster child. One could lay a case this trend began under Bush I, then Clinton sold us out wholesale to the Chinese in exchange for campaign contributions. GWB thought he could further relate to the Russians same as his dad did. Obama has been so busy apologizing to the Muslims and the rest of the world, he forgets there even was a Russia, or a China, despite it being in the news and everything, that the US and the commies are on the opposite sides of so many current conflicts.

Edited March 13, 2014 by The Postmaster

[Rwlaird 18]

Well, over 26% of visa seekers from Ukraine are deemed fishy, and less than 3% of visa seekers from VWP countries are deemed fishy. Most of that 3% are probably denied ESTA because of criminal activity or overstays or the like. Is that hard to understand?

Maybe they could actually conduct a robust, meaningful application process instead of just profiling applicants and deeming them fishy.

This topic started in the tourist/work visas forum. Seemed appropriate. Weird a topic about tourist visas gets moved from a forum that is specific for tourist visa's.

Maybe someone didn't like the topic and wanted to hide it so that it gets less visibility.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Maybe someone didn't like the topic and wanted to hide it so that it gets less visibility.

It will get more visibility in this forum, but a good chance it will get fewer relevant answers and by the end of it all, we'll be discussing the education system in Somalia.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It will get more visibility in this forum, but a good chance it will get fewer relevant answers and by the end of it all, we'll be discussing the education system in Somalia.

Or Obamacare, or Walmart, or George Zimmerman

[Dakine10 5,452]

Or Obamacare, or Walmart, or George Zimmerman

Probably not Walmart. There's already 2 topics going on that. You never know though.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Maybe they could actually conduct a robust, meaningful application process instead of just profiling applicants and deeming them fishy.

Yeah, all right. I would be for that. Keep in mind though, that this same process goes on in other countries and results in denials of 3% or less. Chile or something just joined VWP and they had about 1.5% denial. They have experience and data about overstayers and are able to tell pretty fast, but I would be for more intensive and thorough judgement.

It must be hard to have your relatives or friends denied tourist visas. I have not experienced that, but I have sympathy for you. I also know the situation in Ukraine is pretty shitty, but at least their protests were able to get action in weeks, instead of years like other protesting countries. Good for Ukraine on that.