What I Learned About Evidence

[one...two...tree 2,762]

And the rumor is that over-documentation (with a bunch of stuff that can be faked) can be a red flag for fraud.

I think it depends on what you are sending. My approach to it was I'm going to make the best presentation that this is a legitimate relationship. Jinky gave me copies of doctorate diploma, her Philippines driver's license and her social security card. I also sent copies of every page of my passport in addition to a copy of my birth certificate. I sent maybe 2 cards Jinky mailed me, but no phone call logs or emails.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[garya505 2]

And the rumor is that over-documentation (with a bunch of stuff that can be faked) can be a red flag for fraud.

I think it depends on what you are sending. My approach to it was I'm going to make the best presentation that this is a legitimate relationship. Jinky gave me copies of doctorate diploma, her Philippines driver's license and her social security card. I also sent copies of every page of my passport in addition to a copy of my birth certificate. I sent maybe 2 cards Jinky mailed me, but no phone call logs or emails.

Yah, I would think call logs and emails would be easy to fake.

[whenwillithappen 0]

Anyone here have a child overseas? I only included the minimum amount of evidence, few pictures, passport stamps and airline stubs as proof of relation but I also have a Thai Birth Certificate for my Daughter with all three of our names on it. As well as a "Consular Report of Birth" with all our names on it. I assumed that this was about as much proof as I should need. I mean its irrefutable. Anyone disagree?

Just wondering.

One other question.... When I look at the processing timeline at (https://egov.immigration.gov/cris/jsps/Processtimes.jsp?SeviceCenter=California)

It tells me they are working on apps from April? Yet I see that some have NOA2 in 8 weeks or so.

What the hell does this site mean?

Thanks.

our children where born here in the uk.... we also sent in the birth cetificates with both our names on... but we stilll recieved and rfe for more evidence... we are also using an attourney and he told us that what we sent would be ample... so you see you just never know what to expect!!

[goontar 0]

I intend to bring lots of supporting evidence to the interview. Whatever they ask for we will have, and more.

I agree... When we get to the interview stage I will not be denied!! My fiancee will have as much amunition as I can possibly think of in her files of evidenciary information that the CO could possibly ask for!!!

Whats a Touch?

[payxibka 10,044]

[

I think it depends on what you are sending. My approach to it was I'm going to make the best presentation that this is a legitimate relationship. Jinky gave me copies of doctorate diploma, her Philippines driver's license and her social security card. I also sent copies of every page of my passport in addition to a copy of my birth certificate. I sent maybe 2 cards Jinky mailed me, but no phone call logs or emails.

Everyone needs to make there own determination on what is proper to provide at whatever stage of the process. In the end, the ultimate burden here is to prove that a bonafide relationship exists.

I ask, why are we submitting evidence to the USCIS at this stage. What have they asked for? We are providing evidence in response to the following: (taken directl from the I 129F)

"Provide copies of evidence that you and your fiancé(e) have personally met within the last two years"

If e-mails, cards, IM logs, copy of a DL or a diploma is evidence that proves what they have requested then by all means provide it.

I am not suggesting to anyone to do as I have done. Do as you feel is required.

[payxibka 10,044]

our children where born here in the uk.... we also sent in the birth cetificates with both our names on... but we stilll recieved and rfe for more evidence... we are also using an attourney and he told us that what we sent would be ample... so you see you just never know what to expect!!

You received an RFE for evidence that was not required to be submitted with the original petition?

[lucyrich 19]

our children where born here in the uk.... we also sent in the birth cetificates with both our names on... but we stilll recieved and rfe for more evidence... we are also using an attourney and he told us that what we sent would be ample... so you see you just never know what to expect!!

You received an RFE for evidence that was not required to be submitted with the original petition?

Yes, that's common, and it's one reason why it's not always wise to bury them in evidence.

For example, sending a love letter in a non-English language without a certified translation is one sure path to an RFE requesting the translation, even though the love letter wasn't required. The rules say that all non-English documents must be accompanied by a certified translation.

They're supposed to read all of the evidence you provide, and they should resolve to their satisfaction any discrepancies or inconsistencies in what they read. So anything that raises a question in their minds may generate an RFE.

Edited December 1, 2006 by lucyrich

[mybackpages 0]

Some of us going through Casablanca suspect that the decision to approve or not is based on the original petition rather than the interview. Often no evidence is accepted at the interview. Maybe they will look at photos. Fiances have been denied even though they has arm loads of evidence like phone records, emails etc and were sometimes not allowed to present this info.

Building a solid case of a relationship in the USCIS petition is a good idea in this case. The consulate can not deny on any issue already approved by USCIS. For consulates that opearte like this the kinds of evidence submitted in the original petition should be considered.

[payxibka 10,044]

Building a solid case of a relationship in the USCIS petition is a good idea in this case. The consulate can not deny on any issue already approved by USCIS. For consulates that opearte like this the kinds of evidence submitted in the original petition should be considered.

Just playing devil's advocate here:

What is the basis for your statement that the consulate cannot deny based on previously adjudicated issues by the USCIS.

[no name 1]

I think it depends on what you are sending. My approach to it was I'm going to make the best presentation that this is a legitimate relationship. Jinky gave me copies of doctorate diploma, her Philippines driver's license and her social security card. I also sent copies of every page of my passport in addition to a copy of my birth certificate. I sent maybe 2 cards Jinky mailed me, but no phone call logs or emails.

How do her own personal documentss prove you met or have a relationship?

Also, cards only work if you kept the postmarked envelope.

The consulate can not deny on any issue already approved by USCIS.

Consulates can deny at interview if your petition was approved already by USCIS, so your statement is incorrect.

[mybackpages 0]

Building a solid case of a relationship in the USCIS petition is a good idea in this case. The consulate can not deny on any issue already approved by USCIS. For consulates that opearte like this the kinds of evidence submitted in the original petition should be considered.

Just playing devil's advocate here:

What is the basis for your statement that the consulate cannot deny based on previously adjudicated issues by the USCIS.

No no good question.

I suppose I should have said. there are some VJers who did have to appeal a consulate denial and in their experiences they were told learned that something approved by USCIS, can not be used to deny. USSCIS evidence approval stands unless of course the consulate in the interview learns that the originally sumitted & approved evidence was fruadulent in the first place.

Best way to clarify is to speak to the VJers who have first hand experience in this.

Edited December 1, 2006 by mybackpages

[lucyrich 19]

The subject comes up here periodically. At the petition stage for a K-1, you absolutely are required to provide evidence that the two of you have met in person sometime during the two year period before you filed the petition. Beyond that, not much is required. Plenty have reported success with just boarding passes and passport stamps to establish travel to the other's country within the required dates, together with one photograph of the couple together in person.

At the interview stage, you are required to satisfy the officer that the relationship is not a sham solely for the purpose of getting an immigration benefit. The amount and type of evidence required to prove this will vary greatly from one case to another.

It's important to know and understand exactly what you are trying to prove. Submitting lots of call logs at the petition stage doesn't prove you've met in person. Proving you've met in person without establishing the date when the meeting took place doesn't show you've met the statuatory requirement. Submitting evidence at the interview that shows you've been in contact doesn't solidly demonstrate that the motive for the relationship wasn't to get a visa. I've seen lots of sad postings from couples who initially overlooked these points.

FWIW, we went through the K-3/CR-1 process, where the requirements are a teeny bit different from the K-1, but the only relationship evidence we produced during the entire visa process was our marriage certificate. We also went to the interview together, and stood in front of the officer, communicating to one another, which might be taken as a form of evidence. We had many pictures and other things available at the interview, but they weren't asked for, so we didn't show them.

I don't think it's a good idea to bury them in unsolicited evidence. I've seen people report RFE's to the effect of "We submitted 300 pages of evidence and they still gave us an RFE!" -- "Well, where was your dated proof of being together in person during the required time period?" -- "It was right there, plain as day, on the bottom half of the 285th page of evidence!"

I'd recommend submitting just a little bit more than what's needed to clearly and incontrovertibly establish the point you're trying to establish. Think about how easy it would be for a fraudulent couple to fake the evidence. A small amount of difficult-to-fake evidence that clearly establishes the point is ideal.

[MissStacey 1]

I have been worrying about that too lately. We were only married 6 weeks before I came to Canada to visit and was denied going back. I wasn't able to work in the US, so my name isn't on any of the bills,etc. The only thing I really have is our Marriage Certificate, I am on his Medical Insurance through his work, I'm not sure if he added me yet to his car insurance. We do have lots of pics together.

[payxibka 10,044]

I suppose I should have said. there are some VJers who did have to appeal a consulate denial and in their experiences they were told learned that something approved by USCIS, can not be used to deny. USSCIS evidence approval stands unless of course the consulate in the interview learns that the originally sumitted & approved evidence was fruadulent in the first place.

Best way to clarify is to speak to the VJers who have first hand experience in this.

Obviously we cannot deny actual experiences but I guaranty you that no G15 Consulate Officer (who works for the DOS) will ever accept the fact that he/she cannot override a G8 adjudicator who works at a USCIS service center (which is a part of DHS). Particularly when the responsibility and authority to issue a visa is a function of DOS and not DHS.

[Tim&Poonam 0]

I hired a lawyer to do our K-1 because I had no idea of the process, and, like all of us, I was in a hurry to get a visa in hand.

In the 2.5 months I've waited for the NOA2 I've fretted a lot over whether my lawyer included enough evidence of relationship, especially when reading on this board about all that some people enclose. In addition to the usual myriad of forms (letters of intent, etc.), my laywer only had me include 3 pictures of me and my girl and copies of my passport stamps (for one visit). That's it. No tax forms. No e-mail or snail mail correspondence. Nothing else. I certainly could have provided more evidence and even suggested some, but this was all he wanted.

I mention this for those struggling to put together their apps. Maybe you don't need as much as you think you need -- just a few well chosen and irrefutable bits of evidence that you've really met and bonded. Maybe this makes the life of the USCIS arbiter easier. Who knows?

To get approved at the service center for your NOA2 you only need to prove that you have met in person in the last 2 years. When your fiancee goes for the interview they will want to see more evidence of an ongoing relationship.