The case Against Zimmerman Far From Clear

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

http://news.yahoo.com/case-against-zimmerman-far-clear-undercut-blunder-181037578.html

I am getting the news from what I read on the internet. I did not see the last few days of the trial.

The other thread is full of nonsense. personal attacks and lame attempts at "zingers" none of which mean sh*t.

Note that the 2nd paragraph of this article points out that the prosecution has not made a case for 2nd degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt and that this opinion is held by court experts. None of them have read what Patriot has repeated ad nauseum (and Mr. Big Dog parrots) That the burden is on Zimmerman. Well, NO it is not. 2nd degree murder has a definition and the state needs to prove that the killing of TM was 2nd degree murder if they want to imprison anyone for it. GZ admits to killing TM, that is NOT the same as 2nd degree murder. GZ has no burden to "prove" a defense from a "crime" the state has not proven to exist. Can you even be serious to speak such nonsense? This nonsense imaginary homocide = murder BS is laughable. Funny how no one in court mentioned that or acted as though the burden were on GZ. Dumb@sses need to read VJ, no wonder they are losing, they aren't paying attention to Mr. Big Dog.

Note also that the state initially declined to prosecute the case. No additional evidence was found to change that. What you see now is what they had when they declined to prosecute. (also note 2nd paragraph) The only thing that changed was pressure from paid racist hacks and anti-gun groups to have a show trial.

It was entirely predictable (by me many times, if by no one else) that the defense would ask the judge to dismiss the case at the end of the prosecution presentation. That is their job, they did it. It was also entirely predictable that the judge would deny the motion. She has to. The paid racists will go batshit crazy if she stopped the trial no matter how ridiculous the prosecution was. There needs to be a full trial and a jury verdict in order to complete the attempt to appease the racists. The racists, not being at all interested in justice, will still go batshit crazy when GZ is acquitted, but at least the state can say they gave it the old college try. If reading that offends you, you are 4 clicks more stupid than I thought you were. Anyone who thinks this is about anything BUT race and gun control is in fantasyland.

So far as I have seen, about every witness was co-opted, impeached or just flat whacko. The dueling moms are a wash. TMs mom should have been left out of this as well as Jeantell "Dee Dee-saurus" The woman is entitled to grieve but the defense has to do their job to discredit her. Why did they expose her to that? And then, of course, GZs mom says it is HER son screaming. Big surprise. Who'da thunk it?

As the experts watching the case now predict acquittal, hung jury or lesser charges, one can say fairly certainly that there will be no 2nd degree Murder conviction (who knew?)

The defense has yet to present its case. Even when hearing only HALF the evidence, this is a weak case.

I can tell you who will disagree with this, but it won't matter.

GZ will walk out free.

[Darnell 8,478]

Yay !

[himher 634]

http://news.yahoo.com/case-against-zimmerman-far-clear-undercut-blunder-181037578.html

I am getting the news from what I read on the internet. I did not see the last few days of the trial.

The other thread is full of nonsense. personal attacks and lame attempts at "zingers" none of which mean sh*t.

Note that the 2nd paragraph of this article points out that the prosecution has not made a case for 2nd degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt and that this opinion is held by court experts. None of them have read what Patriot has repeated ad nauseum (and Mr. Big Dog parrots) That the burden is on Zimmerman. Well, NO it is not. 2nd degree murder has a definition and the state needs to prove that the killing of TM was 2nd degree murder if they want to imprison anyone for it. GZ admits to killing TM, that is NOT the same as 2nd degree murder. GZ has no burden to "prove" a defense from a "crime" the state has not proven to exist. Can you even be serious to speak such nonsense? This nonsense imaginary homocide = murder BS is laughable. Funny how no one in court mentioned that or acted as though the burden were on GZ. Dumb@sses need to read VJ, no wonder they are losing, they aren't paying attention to Mr. Big Dog.

Note also that the state initially declined to prosecute the case. No additional evidence was found to change that. What you see now is what they had when they declined to prosecute. (also note 2nd paragraph) The only thing that changed was pressure from paid racist hacks and anti-gun groups to have a show trial.

It was entirely predictable (by me many times, if by no one else) that the defense would ask the judge to dismiss the case at the end of the prosecution presentation. That is their job, they did it. It was also entirely predictable that the judge would deny the motion. She has to. The paid racists will go batshit crazy if she stopped the trial no matter how ridiculous the prosecution was. There needs to be a full trial and a jury verdict in order to complete the attempt to appease the racists. The racists, not being at all interested in justice, will still go batshit crazy when GZ is acquitted, but at least the state can say they gave it the old college try. If reading that offends you, you are 4 clicks more stupid than I thought you were. Anyone who thinks this is about anything BUT race and gun control is in fantasyland.

So far as I have seen, about every witness was co-opted, impeached or just flat whacko. The dueling moms are a wash. TMs mom should have been left out of this as well as Jeantell "Dee Dee-saurus" The woman is entitled to grieve but the defense has to do their job to discredit her. Why did they expose her to that? And then, of course, GZs mom says it is HER son screaming. Big surprise. Who'da thunk it?

As the experts watching the case now predict acquittal, hung jury or lesser charges, one can say fairly certainly that there will be no 2nd degree Murder conviction (who knew?)

The defense has yet to present its case. Even when hearing only HALF the evidence, this is a weak case.

I can tell you who will disagree with this, but it won't matter.

GZ will walk out free.

An opinion shared by the oddsmakers. There was going to be a poll. I'm ready to vote in it. The prosecution has rested.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

http://news.yahoo.com/case-against-zimmerman-far-clear-undercut-blunder-181037578.html

I am getting the news from what I read on the internet. I did not see the last few days of the trial.

The other thread is full of nonsense. personal attacks and lame attempts at "zingers" none of which mean sh*t.

Note that the 2nd paragraph of this article points out that the prosecution has not made a case for 2nd degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt and that this opinion is held by court experts. None of them have read what Patriot has repeated ad nauseum (and Mr. Big Dog parrots) That the burden is on Zimmerman. Well, NO it is not. 2nd degree murder has a definition and the state needs to prove that the killing of TM was 2nd degree murder if they want to imprison anyone for it. GZ admits to killing TM, that is NOT the same as 2nd degree murder. GZ has no burden to "prove" a defense from a "crime" the state has not proven to exist. Can you even be serious to speak such nonsense? This nonsense imaginary homocide = murder BS is laughable. Funny how no one in court mentioned that or acted as though the burden were on GZ. Dumb@sses need to read VJ, no wonder they are losing, they aren't paying attention to Mr. Big Dog.

Note also that the state initially declined to prosecute the case. No additional evidence was found to change that. What you see now is what they had when they declined to prosecute. (also note 2nd paragraph) The only thing that changed was pressure from paid racist hacks and anti-gun groups to have a show trial.

It was entirely predictable (by me many times, if by no one else) that the defense would ask the judge to dismiss the case at the end of the prosecution presentation. That is their job, they did it. It was also entirely predictable that the judge would deny the motion. She has to. The paid racists will go batshit crazy if she stopped the trial no matter how ridiculous the prosecution was. There needs to be a full trial and a jury verdict in order to complete the attempt to appease the racists. The racists, not being at all interested in justice, will still go batshit crazy when GZ is acquitted, but at least the state can say they gave it the old college try. If reading that offends you, you are 4 clicks more stupid than I thought you were. Anyone who thinks this is about anything BUT race and gun control is in fantasyland.

So far as I have seen, about every witness was co-opted, impeached or just flat whacko. The dueling moms are a wash. TMs mom should have been left out of this as well as Jeantell "Dee Dee-saurus" The woman is entitled to grieve but the defense has to do their job to discredit her. Why did they expose her to that? And then, of course, GZs mom says it is HER son screaming. Big surprise. Who'da thunk it?

As the experts watching the case now predict acquittal, hung jury or lesser charges, one can say fairly certainly that there will be no 2nd degree Murder conviction (who knew?)

The defense has yet to present its case. Even when hearing only HALF the evidence, this is a weak case.

I can tell you who will disagree with this, but it won't matter.

GZ will walk out free.

Agree. The threads have turned into pages of Perry Mason wanna be, googling up reams of old case law and Florida statue and talking about if he had a round in the chamber, M savage and all other kinds of nonsense that have no bearing on the case.

The one and only thing that matters is can the State prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not act in self defense. Nothing else matters. So far it has not done that. There is a very strong reasonable doubt.

Will he walk. I would bet all I have on no second degree murder. Do I trust 100% that somehow the jurors might not feel enough white guilt or make some stupid decision based on avoiding race riots to come back with manslaughter,, maybe

Should he walk--Yes

Now please feel free to continue talking about round in the chambers, following, M Savage, preponderance of the evidence, GZ proving his innocence, non-life threatening wounds and all the other dribble that has nothing to do with anything.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Why would anyone carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? Otherwise, why bother carry?

[Bugs 455]

We do need to remember that one is innocent until proven guilty, and the fact that there just isn't any bonafide proof in this, or there would be no debate here, makes me think that Zimmerman probably will be let go by the jury if the defense does a good enough job of getting this across. But if the jury finds him guilty, then I trust they will have good enough evidence for this that the prosecution will have found for them, despite the defense's counter.

We can all have an opinion as to what we think happened that night and what we think Zimmerman deserves, and may not be wrong on that, but we do need to allow the justice system to operate above this on the need for bonafide proof or innocence, or we all lose.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Leon & Mylen

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Why would anyone carry a pistol without a round in the chamber? Otherwise, why bother carry?

Exactly, #######??????????

Who would carry a gun that is not ready to use? Police do not. No one would unless they are just stupid or afraid to carry a gun properly. If you are afraid of your gun, leave it at home, lock it up or sell it.

Why not just leave the bullets at home and plan to throw it at someone?

Micheal Savage is wrong. I love how the fascists/racists jump all over whatever he says as if it MUST be true. He is a conservative! They are ALWAYS right!

Edited July 6, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This whole "he had a pistol, loaded and cocked" is nonsense aimed at people ignorant of guns. OMG!!!!!

I carry a loaded and cocked pistol to buy paper towels at the grocery store. So what? If someone can tell me WHEN I will actually need it...and my spare tire, seat belt, fire extinguisher, life insurance, then I will leave it at home until then.

But since one cannot get a manicure in Seal Beach, CA without the possible need of a concealed handgun, or go to a movie in Aurora, CO, a shopping center in Arizona, then I just take ot everywhere. If I don't need it...no harm done. And YES it is loaded, cocked, the hammer is cocked over a live round in the chamber, the bullets are hollow points, the Ultra CDP (carry defense package) includes the "carry melt" treatment to make it easier to take the gun out of concealment, the sights are tritium night sights, the finish is impervious to perspiration. It is designed specifically to be carried concealed, and be extremely deadly if deadly force is required.

When fashion dictates I carry a S&W M640 Centennial, .38. All chambers loaded. There is NO hammer or safety in this gun, the only "safety" is a long DA trigger pull. NO ONE pulls a DA revolver trigger by accident. It is ideal for pocket carry when my clothes will not cover a holstered .45 and can be fired from inside the pocket! I would prefer not to ruin my good clothes to kill vermin...but if one must. The 640 is all stainless steel, can be cleaned in the dishwasher, and has small rubber grips. Perfect for the pocket of my swim shorts at the beach. Incidentally a gun fully submerged in water, the barrel void of air, can be safely fired and the external ballistics are not affected for s short distance. Ammunition is more or less waterproof, I do not recommend storing your ammunition under water, but submersion in water for short periods has no effect.

Micheal Savage can only be totally ignorant of firearms to ignore the fact that technology has been used for more than 100 years to make firearms designed to be carried safely "ready" to shoot.

The Colt M1911 ( a favorite of mine) was actually designed initially on 1905. It was adopted by the US military in 1911, hence the name. It was designed, by JM Browning to be carried safely "cocked and locked" with the hammer at full ####### over a live round inthe chamber. There were THREE passive safeties and one manual safety to prevent accidental discharge. Since 1980, there has been an additional (arguably unnecessary) firing pin block added as an additional passive safety. This is designed to prevent accidental discharge if the gun is dropped straight down, on its muzzle, from a height of 30 ft. or more. Yeah, like I said, unnecessary. Some people never could man up to carrying cocked and locked. The classic was "Mox's" California-Phony Liberal comment that he only did so in "bad neighborhoods" which he subsequently refused to define. Typical phoney liberal "I-have-guns-and-am-not-racist-or-a-crazy-NRA-member" BULLSHEET! I carry cocked and locked everywhere. I am not racist.

Glock had the breakthrough safety-in-the-trigger design more than 30 years ago and that has become the dominant pistol used by both police and civilians. Many others have copied the design.

The CZ 75 (1975) was a breakthrough design combining SA/DA and a hammer drop safety. The PPk had done the same thing in the 1930s. The CZ also used a reversed slide rail system and some other functional innovations. They were difficult to get as they were made in Czechoslovakia and imports of firearms from the USSR and Warsaw Pact allies were very limited...by the USA. That changed in 1992.

To suggest that carrying a gun the way they have been designed to be carried for more than 100 years somehow contributes to GZs "guilt" is too stupid to discuss among knowledgable people.

Another reason I started this thread.

[Karee 4,189]

If/when he is found not guilty, it will be because the jury is racist.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If/when he is found not guilty, it will be because the jury is racist.

That is why I am not worried. I don't think they are. I don't think the police and state that declined to prosecute initially are racist either.

This was accepted as legitimate self defense by anyone whose position it is to make that determination in Florida. Only noise making from racists changed the course of justice. But they cannot change the facts of the case. The facts of the case do not support a conviction for 2nd degree murder and never did.

And I do not see the jury being intimidated in a guilty verdict. This is not California. Florida has concealed carry and stand your ground, I would expect the protests of the acquittal will be polite, albeit perhaps noisey. There won't be any riots in FL.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[lostinblue 1,989]

Gary the drums for war are being beaten . Flash mobs are training grounds for future rioters.... The future is now. Riots means more money for the news media. They are fanning the flames as we speak. .Jamie Foxx is leading this march....

"rioting, looting, and indiscriminate violence is acceptable as long as you feel within your heart it’s for a good cause."

Edited July 6, 2013 by lostinblue

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Exactly, #######??????????

Who would carry a gun that is not ready to use? Police do not. No one would unless they are just stupid or afraid to carry a gun properly. If you are afraid of your gun, leave it at home, lock it up or sell it.

Why not just leave the bullets at home and plan to throw it at someone?

Micheal Savage is wrong. I love how the fascists/racists jump all over whatever he says as if it MUST be true. He is a conservative! They are ALWAYS right!

Why would anyone have a gun at home locked in a box in a closet with the bullets stored elsewhere. Insane

When I was a kid growing up in rural GA. , I can remember going in many many homes that did not have guns in glass display cabinets. At a very young age, you just knew not to touch them and you respected that.In fact you just were taught respect period. By the age of 10 or so you went hunting and you respected a gun and knew how to handle it.

I don't ever recall one gun accident by a child growing up.

When we were in High School lot's of boys had gun racks in their pickups. Drove them to school. Show and tell day on many occasions resulted in guys bringing in the guns their dad had used in WW2, Korea or Nam,

We never had one killing or shooting..

So what has changed. Guns are much more restricted but we blame the guns.. It is not the guns

Edited July 6, 2013 by The Nature Boy

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Why would anyone have a gun at home locked in a box in a closet with the bullets stored elsewhere. Insane

When I was a kid growing up in rural GA. , I can remember going in many many homes that did not have guns in glass display cabinets. At a very young age, you just knew not to touch them and you respected that.In fact you just were taught respect period. By the age of 10 or so you went hunting and you respected a gun and knew how to handle it.

I don't ever recall one gun accident by a child growing up.

When we were in High School lot's of boys had gun racks in their pickups. Drove them to school. Show and tell day on many occasions resulted in guys bringing in the guns their dad had used in WW2, Korea or Nam,

We never had one killing or shooting..

So what has changed. Guns are much more restricted but we blame the guns.. It is not the guns

You guys must remember Deputy Barney Fife from the Andy Griffith show. He was only allowed to carry his gun unloaded with one bullet in his shirt pocket.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is hilarious. The Zimmermann fan club is already getting anxious. Remember guys, you professed for the longest time now that this is an open and closed acquittal. You specifically, Gary, have lectured this audience time and again that Zimmermann will walk. If that is so and you guys are all sure about that, then what's all the anxiety all about. That Zimmermann fan club is a hoot.

Oh, and Gary, learn to comprehend what you read, will ya? It might help you look less stupid. I don't remember anyone ever having made the claim that Zimmermann ought to prove he's not guilty of 2nd degree murder. I sure haven't. That's just your imagination running wild when you sit there at 5AM local time still posting on VJ. Come to notice that you post all through the nights recently. Go get some sleep and your head might clear up a little.

Note that the 2nd paragraph of this article points out that the prosecution has not made a case for 2nd degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt and that this opinion is held by court experts. None of them have read what Patriot has repeated ad nauseum (and Mr. Big Dog parrots) That the burden is on Zimmerman.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Oh thank goodness we have somewhere else to discuss this.