221(g) Refusal at K1 Interview in Thailand. "Your Fiance Has Many Women!!" Player!"

[Lingbaa 1]

My fiancee had her K1 interview yesterday at the Thailand Embassy and we received a 221(g) refusal white paper:

"This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have not been found qualified to receive a visa under section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulation issued pursuant thereto. Further consideration will be given to your visa application after you obtain and present the documents listed below (only the marked sections apply to you)"

X Evidence of your relationship with petitioner (i.e. photographs, letters, e-mails, phone bills, old household registration books etc.)

We were both shocked by the decision and by how short the interview lasted before the CO left and then came back with the 221(g) document and ended the interview. She had come to the interview with a mountain of evidence to prove our relationship and other necessary docs including:

• 26 photos taken during three different trips all over various locations in Thailand, including photos of us at dinner with her Mom, Dad, Sister and several other family members
• A photo of us taken on the night when we were engaged and she is wearing a 1 Ct engagement ring which I used when I proposed to her. This is the same ring she is also wearing at the interview
• Several hotel bills from several different locations throughout Thailand
• Evidence of three different airline itineraries for trips taken to see here three times in the last 13 months
• A stack of Skype phone calls showing that we talk on the phone at least every day for the last 15 months and another stack of MSN chat logs from between 1 and 2.5 years ago
• A wire transfer document from my bank in USA showing that I wired $4,000 USD to her which she then transferred to her father's account for a down payment on our wedding later this year after the AOS is completed (I hope!). This was done after I proposed during our 2nd trip but before my most recent trip.
• All sorts of my financial documents like last three years of tax returns and W2's, Employment verification including salary on company letterhead, final pay statement from 2012. Her pay stubs and letter from her employer in Bangkok showing high performance reviews.
• Thai police record and medical transcript document

She did the interview in English as her language skills are quite good. She works in an office as an accountant and handles transactions by computer and over the phone in English with foreign clients and she has a stable employment record and a decent salary for a Thai person of her age and education (college degree) working in her field. She had documentation of all that too. The CO only glanced at a couple of the photos and did not look at any of the other documents mentioned above before beginning to attack her regarding the legitimacy of our relationship and told her that he did not believe that we had a real relationship. She told him that we initially met almost 3 years ago in 2010 on a Thai dating website but we were not really that interested in each other and things did not really click until 2011 (all completely true) after which we started to chat and then speak on the phone regularly until we first met id Sept 2011.

He told here that "...your fiance has many, many women and he is a player! He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you. Do you know that he has filed many K1 petitions for women in the past? Why would you think that he is ever going to marry you? I don't believe that you are telling the truth about going to the US to marry this man"

The truth of the matter is that I filed one K1 in the past and it was almost 5 years ago, in 2008. That relationship ended amicably before any visa was issued and in actuality. immediately after the NOA2 was issued in Dec. 2008 she just got cold feet about leaving her family and sent me a letter telling me that I was a great guy and we should stay friends... blah blah blah. I correctly noted this previous I-129 in the appropriate section in in my most recent I-129F filing but since it was more than 2 years ago and there was only one, I thought I was fine under IMBRA Act. I have never been married before and have no dependents. I received an RFE to explain the previous K1 filing and did so in great detail explaining all of the above and showing the cancelled petition statement from her embassy. They reviewed my RFE and issued the NOA2.

My fiancee tells me that the CO seemed to have disdain for her from the start of the interview. I think that she was asked to put a finger up to do a fingerprint scan and she placed two fingers or her index finger and the CO said "You just told me that you can speak English but you can't even understand a simple command?" Well she was nervous, and the CO continued to berate her throughout the short interview of only approximately 5 minutes and as stated, he never looked at any of the documents except a couple of the photos. He did retain all of the documents including the photos and only returned to her personal items such as passport and ID card.

The way she was treat really makes me upset, but I realize that these CO's have absolute authority and there is nothing that you can do except play the game. By the end of the interview she was almost in tears and frankly I don't think she is used to telling someone in a position of authority that, "Look, you're wrong and here's why. Look at this!", and so she never really asked him to consider any of the documents that she had brought.

I've done quite a bit of reading on the 221(g) on this website and other places, and realize that its somehwat considered a 'soft denial' while the K1 is going through Additional Processing. they have asked for more documents to be presented by registered mail, but what more can we give them to prove that we are in a committed relationship and plan to marry? have heard that Thailand is very heavily weighting applicant on photos and if it's photos they want we can provide 50 more. Does it help for me to write some sort of letter stating all of the reasons why I love my fiancee and assure them that I will marry and file AOS within a week after she arrives in US? Is there a way to request another interview or drop off the follow-up documents in person and ask for a Thai interview in the hopes that she will get someone more reasonable and rationale?

I told her that this is probably just a tactic employed by this CO to rattle her and make us lose hop and that submitting more photos and documents will get us past this 221(g) but would really appreciate any guidance from other VJer's familiar with a similar situation of denial due to a previous K1 filing and what other document may help besides the obvious, which I've read is a lot of photos. After all, he didn't even look at the current stack of documents and they still need to be reviewed by somebody.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[haggarda.versoza 3]

This is the most terrible news I've read so far processing a K1 Visa. Sounds like the result was just based subjectively from the CO's end. That's just terrible and unjustifiable I think you can appeal (within 33 days of denial) but not sure how is the process for that though, it will cost you much and time as well.

Next process is to re-apply again but you'll have to wait again, so I think I least thing you can do is marry her in Thailand and file a CR1 petition.

[Bumbero 130]

That's horrible

Did you fiancee tell you anything about the interview other then what he said about you being a player and you have many girlfriends? How did she answer the questions concerning you and your relationship?

Are there any other red flags you can think of? Looking at your profile photo, it doesn't look like there is a big age difference. I'm not sure if the transfer of that large amount of money would raise a suspicion but maybe it didn't help your case. Talk to your fiancee, after she calms down and see if there is anything that was said or brought up that may clue you in to WHAT caused this. Hopefully something will come to mind.

Best thing is to comply with the request and pray for the best.

Best of luck to you and your fiancee.

[TBoneTX 43,059]

*** Thread moved from K-1 Process forum to the Case Progress subforum. ***

[TBoneTX 43,059]

This is the most terrible news I've read so far processing a K1 Visa.

What happened to the OP's fiancee is much like what happened to many of us in Ecuador. Go to the U.S. Embassy & Consulate forum, and see the threads "US Consulate in Guayaquil, Ecuador" and "Guayaquil Consulate Administrative Process" for some eye-openers.

OP, you have sympathies.

[Andy and Pui 16]

OP, I'm sorry you are going through this. I wonder if this has to do with pictures. I know in the past that has been issues in Thailand for Karee and a few other members. Did your fiance say anything to the CO when they said you were a player? I am curious what other members from Thailand think.

[Karee 4,189]

My fiancee had her K1 interview yesterday at the Thailand Embassy and we received a 221(g) refusal white paper:

"This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have not been found qualified to receive a visa under section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulation issued pursuant thereto. Further consideration will be given to your visa application after you obtain and present the documents listed below (only the marked sections apply to you)"

X Evidence of your relationship with petitioner (i.e. photographs, letters, e-mails, phone bills, old household registration books etc.)

We were both shocked by the decision and by how short the interview lasted before the CO left and then came back with the 221(g) document and ended the interview. She had come to the interview with a mountain of evidence to prove our relationship and other necessary docs including:

• 26 photos taken during three different trips all over various locations in Thailand, including photos of us at dinner with her Mom, Dad, Sister and several other family members
• A photo of us taken on the night when we were engaged and she is wearing a 1 Ct engagement ring which I used when I proposed to her. This is the same ring she is also wearing at the interview
• Several hotel bills from several different locations throughout Thailand
• Evidence of three different airline itineraries for trips taken to see here three times in the last 13 months
• A stack of Skype phone calls showing that we talk on the phone at least every day for the last 15 months and another stack of MSN chat logs from between 1 and 2.5 years ago
• A wire transfer document from my bank in USA showing that I wired $4,000 USD to her which she then transferred to her father's account for a down payment on our wedding later this year after the AOS is completed (I hope!). This was done after I proposed during our 2nd trip but before my most recent trip.
• All sorts of my financial documents like last three years of tax returns and W2's, Employment verification including salary on company letterhead, final pay statement from 2012. Her pay stubs and letter from her employer in Bangkok showing high performance reviews.
• Thai police record and medical transcript document

She did the interview in English as her language skills are quite good. She works in an office as an accountant and handles transactions by computer and over the phone in English with foreign clients and she has a stable employment record and a decent salary for a Thai person of her age and education (college degree) working in her field. She had documentation of all that too. The CO only glanced at a couple of the photos and did not look at any of the other documents mentioned above before beginning to attack her regarding the legitimacy of our relationship and told her that he did not believe that we had a real relationship. She told him that we initially met almost 3 years ago in 2010 on a Thai dating website but we were not really that interested in each other and things did not really click until 2011 (all completely true) after which we started to chat and then speak on the phone regularly until we first met id Sept 2011.

He told here that "...your fiance has many, many women and he is a player! He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you. Do you know that he has filed many K1 petitions for women in the past? Why would you think that he is ever going to marry you? I don't believe that you are telling the truth about going to the US to marry this man"

The truth of the matter is that I filed one K1 in the past and it was almost 5 years ago, in 2008. That relationship ended amicably before any visa was issued and in actuality. immediately after the NOA2 was issued in Dec. 2008 she just got cold feet about leaving her family and sent me a letter telling me that I was a great guy and we should stay friends... blah blah blah. I correctly noted this previous I-129 in the appropriate section in in my most recent I-129F filing but since it was more than 2 years ago and there was only one, I thought I was fine under IMBRA Act. I have never been married before and have no dependents. I received an RFE to explain the previous K1 filing and did so in great detail explaining all of the above and showing the cancelled petition statement from her embassy. They reviewed my RFE and issued the NOA2.

My fiancee tells me that the CO seemed to have disdain for her from the start of the interview. I think that she was asked to put a finger up to do a fingerprint scan and she placed two fingers or her index finger and the CO said "You just told me that you can speak English but you can't even understand a simple command?" Well she was nervous, and the CO continued to berate her throughout the short interview of only approximately 5 minutes and as stated, he never looked at any of the documents except a couple of the photos. He did retain all of the documents including the photos and only returned to her personal items such as passport and ID card.

The way she was treat really makes me upset, but I realize that these CO's have absolute authority and there is nothing that you can do except play the game. By the end of the interview she was almost in tears and frankly I don't think she is used to telling someone in a position of authority that, "Look, you're wrong and here's why. Look at this!", and so she never really asked him to consider any of the documents that she had brought.

I've done quite a bit of reading on the 221(g) on this website and other places, and realize that its somehwat considered a 'soft denial' while the K1 is going through Additional Processing. they have asked for more documents to be presented by registered mail, but what more can we give them to prove that we are in a committed relationship and plan to marry? have heard that Thailand is very heavily weighting applicant on photos and if it's photos they want we can provide 50 more. Does it help for me to write some sort of letter stating all of the reasons why I love my fiancee and assure them that I will marry and file AOS within a week after she arrives in US? Is there a way to request another interview or drop off the follow-up documents in person and ask for a Thai interview in the hopes that she will get someone more reasonable and rationale?

I told her that this is probably just a tactic employed by this CO to rattle her and make us lose hop and that submitting more photos and documents will get us past this 221(g) but would really appreciate any guidance from other VJer's familiar with a similar situation of denial due to a previous K1 filing and what other document may help besides the obvious, which I've read is a lot of photos. After all, he didn't even look at the current stack of documents and they still need to be reviewed by somebody.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

First thing I would do is send them an email to find out exactly what they want. Also, explain the previous K-1 filing. Send the email to visasbkk2@state.gov. Make sure the subject line of the email looks like this: IV Inquiry BNK2012xxxxxxxx. (The BNK2012xxxxxx number is the case number you got from NVC in the mail.) They're pretty good about responding. Once I get to work, I'll dig up my my embassy experience and post it here. It's somewhat similar to yours. There was a jerk CO there back in 2009 that was pretty much handing out 221g to everyone for awhile. Sounds like they got another one.

[Karee 4,189]

First thing I would do is send them an email to find out exactly what they want. Also, explain the previous K-1 filing. Send the email to visasbkk2@state.gov. Make sure the subject line of the email looks like this: IV Inquiry BNK2012xxxxxxxx. (The BNK2012xxxxxx number is the case number you got from NVC in the mail.) They're pretty good about responding. Once I get to work, I'll dig up my my embassy experience and post it here. It's somewhat similar to yours. There was a jerk CO there back in 2009 that was pretty much handing out 221g to everyone for awhile. Sounds like they got another one.

Here's my experience. (I apologize for the gramattical errors as I was half way through a bottle of Saeng Som in a Bangkok hotel room when I posted it.)

http://www.visajourn....php?entry=4078

Thinking about your situation on the way to work I was wondering about the $4000 wire transfer. That seems a little odd. I understand sin sot and all that. I personally would've left that out. Also, found it odd they asked for old house registration books. Not sure what old blue books have to do with anything.

LIke I said previously, send them an email. That's what I did and they sent me an email back saying we want more photos. So I gave them more photos, granted I took the photos all that same day but they didn't need to know that.

Also, you can take more eveidence back to tthe embassy between 1-3 pm on Mondays and Wedensdays. I think I read here that you can do that any day of the week now, but not sure.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Karee

[Andy and Pui 16]

Here's my experience. (I apologize for the gramattical errors as I was half way through a bottle of Saeng Som in a Bangkok hotel room when I posted it.)

http://www.visajourn....php?entry=4078

Thinking about your situation on the way to work I was wondering about the $4000 wire transfer. That seems a little odd. I understand sin sot and all that. I personally would've left that out. Also, found it odd they asked for old house registration books. Not sure what old blue books have to do with anything.

LIke I said previously, send them an email. That's what I did and they sent me an email back saying we want more photos. So I gave them more photos, granted I took the photos all that same day but they didn't need to know that.

Also, you can take more eveidence back to tthe embassy between 1-3 pm on Mondays and Wedensdays. I think I read here that you can do that any day of the week now, but not sure.

I was wondering about the wire transfer and the old blue books. Could they think they are already married? I was just talking with Pui as I was composing this email and she was also wondering if they thought you were married or had been married in the past. Wondering if they might have to get a certificate of no marriage?

Karee, I had a question when you went back and took all this pics in the same day were the both of you wearing the same clothes in all the pics or did change clothes?

[Karee 4,189]

I was wondering about the wire transfer and the old blue books. Could they think they are already married? I was just talking with Pui as I was composing this email and she was also wondering if they thought you were married or had been married in the past. Wondering if they might have to get a certificate of no marriage?

Karee, I had a question when you went back and took all this pics in the same day were the both of you wearing the same clothes in all the pics or did change clothes?

No, we changed clothes of course. Only once though. Basically had motorbike taxi drivers snap the photos.

Good point about the blue book. Maybe they're worried about HER past marraige if she has one. I know when we got married, my wife took her blue book to the Amphur and they just put a line through her last name, and then wrote my last name under that in Thai.

[Ning 619]

My fiancee had her K1 interview yesterday at the Thailand Embassy and we received a 221(g) refusal white paper:

"This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have not been found qualified to receive a visa under section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulation issued pursuant thereto. Further consideration will be given to your visa application after you obtain and present the documents listed below (only the marked sections apply to you)"

X Evidence of your relationship with petitioner (i.e. photographs, letters, e-mails, phone bills, old household registration books etc.)

We were both shocked by the decision and by how short the interview lasted before the CO left and then came back with the 221(g) document and ended the interview. She had come to the interview with a mountain of evidence to prove our relationship and other necessary docs including:

• 26 photos taken during three different trips all over various locations in Thailand, including photos of us at dinner with her Mom, Dad, Sister and several other family members
• A photo of us taken on the night when we were engaged and she is wearing a 1 Ct engagement ring which I used when I proposed to her. This is the same ring she is also wearing at the interview
• Several hotel bills from several different locations throughout Thailand
• Evidence of three different airline itineraries for trips taken to see here three times in the last 13 months
• A stack of Skype phone calls showing that we talk on the phone at least every day for the last 15 months and another stack of MSN chat logs from between 1 and 2.5 years ago
• A wire transfer document from my bank in USA showing that I wired $4,000 USD to her which she then transferred to her father's account for a down payment on our wedding later this year after the AOS is completed (I hope!). This was done after I proposed during our 2nd trip but before my most recent trip.
• All sorts of my financial documents like last three years of tax returns and W2's, Employment verification including salary on company letterhead, final pay statement from 2012. Her pay stubs and letter from her employer in Bangkok showing high performance reviews.
• Thai police record and medical transcript document

She did the interview in English as her language skills are quite good. She works in an office as an accountant and handles transactions by computer and over the phone in English with foreign clients and she has a stable employment record and a decent salary for a Thai person of her age and education (college degree) working in her field. She had documentation of all that too. The CO only glanced at a couple of the photos and did not look at any of the other documents mentioned above before beginning to attack her regarding the legitimacy of our relationship and told her that he did not believe that we had a real relationship. She told him that we initially met almost 3 years ago in 2010 on a Thai dating website but we were not really that interested in each other and things did not really click until 2011 (all completely true) after which we started to chat and then speak on the phone regularly until we first met id Sept 2011.

He told here that "...your fiance has many, many women and he is a player! He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you. Do you know that he has filed many K1 petitions for women in the past? Why would you think that he is ever going to marry you? I don't believe that you are telling the truth about going to the US to marry this man"

The truth of the matter is that I filed one K1 in the past and it was almost 5 years ago, in 2008. That relationship ended amicably before any visa was issued and in actuality. immediately after the NOA2 was issued in Dec. 2008 she just got cold feet about leaving her family and sent me a letter telling me that I was a great guy and we should stay friends... blah blah blah. I correctly noted this previous I-129 in the appropriate section in in my most recent I-129F filing but since it was more than 2 years ago and there was only one, I thought I was fine under IMBRA Act. I have never been married before and have no dependents. I received an RFE to explain the previous K1 filing and did so in great detail explaining all of the above and showing the cancelled petition statement from her embassy. They reviewed my RFE and issued the NOA2.

My fiancee tells me that the CO seemed to have disdain for her from the start of the interview. I think that she was asked to put a finger up to do a fingerprint scan and she placed two fingers or her index finger and the CO said "You just told me that you can speak English but you can't even understand a simple command?" Well she was nervous, and the CO continued to berate her throughout the short interview of only approximately 5 minutes and as stated, he never looked at any of the documents except a couple of the photos. He did retain all of the documents including the photos and only returned to her personal items such as passport and ID card.

The way she was treat really makes me upset, but I realize that these CO's have absolute authority and there is nothing that you can do except play the game. By the end of the interview she was almost in tears and frankly I don't think she is used to telling someone in a position of authority that, "Look, you're wrong and here's why. Look at this!", and so she never really asked him to consider any of the documents that she had brought.

I've done quite a bit of reading on the 221(g) on this website and other places, and realize that its somehwat considered a 'soft denial' while the K1 is going through Additional Processing. they have asked for more documents to be presented by registered mail, but what more can we give them to prove that we are in a committed relationship and plan to marry? have heard that Thailand is very heavily weighting applicant on photos and if it's photos they want we can provide 50 more. Does it help for me to write some sort of letter stating all of the reasons why I love my fiancee and assure them that I will marry and file AOS within a week after she arrives in US? Is there a way to request another interview or drop off the follow-up documents in person and ask for a Thai interview in the hopes that she will get someone more reasonable and rationale?

I told her that this is probably just a tactic employed by this CO to rattle her and make us lose hop and that submitting more photos and documents will get us past this 221(g) but would really appreciate any guidance from other VJer's familiar with a similar situation of denial due to a previous K1 filing and what other document may help besides the obvious, which I've read is a lot of photos. After all, he didn't even look at the current stack of documents and they still need to be reviewed by somebody.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

This is quite the situation. I suggest you step back and think before you act because you will get only one more chance at success.

She was given notice of exactly what they require already. There is no question about that. Providing letters about a Romeo and Juliet story wont help becuase it wont be read. Even if it was does it sound to you like this jerk would really care about what you said? Dont waste your time on such trivial pursuit. Dont expect them to become emotionaly involved.

You need to write a statement to HER indicating that ONCE before you entered into a petition for a K 1. I would tell her that relationship ended well and the petition ended within a short time of the NOA 2. Make some refrence to the RFE as well. Keep this short and remove any sign of emotion.

This is what they asked for: Evidence of your relationship with petitioner (i.e. photographs, letters, e-mails, phone bills, old household registration books etc.)

Confine what you do to a thoughtful responce to these items. There is a reason they kept the other info that was submitted. The further submission of evidence will be added to the case file and they will approve her visa. Keep it simple and easy for this clown to comprehend. Hopefuly the case will be reviewed by a different officer as is done at times. Do not make any comment about what was said or done last time.

You made a huge mistake with the comments about sending 4 K to her. You intentions were correct but play right into the red flags they look for. Could she be extorting you? Are you trying to buy her? Of course not but the drama makes them feel that have found what they are trained to find.

Let us help you by reviewing what you are going to send if you want. Evidence of your relationship? How about writing in your statement to her that you have arranged the wedding to be within a certian date that complys with the 90 days limit. Then something about your understanding of the AOS procedure, when and what you BOTH will do to get that started. Write several letters to her about all your plans to incorperate her into life in America asking her opinion. Things like this should help. If you need help with any of this send me a P M.

Photos? They have 26. Another 50 wont change anything. They did care about the ones she had and wont react any different to another box of those.

Formulate a better plan and lets get this done.

In the end if none of this works you can still have what you want. It just takes more effort. Marry her there and file the CR 1.

[Karee 4,189]

This is quite the situation. I suggest you step back and think before you act because you will get only one more chance at success.

She was given notice of exactly what they require already. There is no question about that. Providing letters about a Romeo and Juliet story wont help becuase it wont be read. Even if it was does it sound to you like this jerk would really care about what you said? Dont waste your time on such trivial pursuit. Dont expect them to become emotionaly involved.

You need to write a statement to HER indicating that ONCE before you entered into a petition for a K 1. I would tell her that relationship ended well and the petition ended within a short time of the NOA 2. Make some refrence to the RFE as well. Keep this short and remove any sign of emotion.

This is what they asked for: Evidence of your relationship with petitioner (i.e. photographs, letters, e-mails, phone bills, old household registration books etc.)

Confine what you do to a thoughtful responce to these items. There is a reason they kept the other info that was submitted. The further submission of evidence will be added to the case file and they will approve her visa. Keep it simple and easy for this clown to comprehend. Hopefuly the case will be reviewed by a different officer as is done at times. Do not make any comment about what was said or done last time.

You made a huge mistake with the comments about sending 4 K to her. You intentions were correct but play right into the red flags they look for. Could she be extorting you? Are you trying to buy her? Of course not but the drama makes them feel that have found what they are trained to find.

Let us help you by reviewing what you are going to send if you want. Evidence of your relationship? How about writing in your statement to her that you have arranged the wedding to be within a certian date that complys with the 90 days limit. Then something about your understanding of the AOS procedure, when and what you BOTH will do to get that started. Write several letters to her about all your plans to incorperate her into life in America asking her opinion. Things like this should help. If you need help with any of this send me a P M.

Photos? They have 26. Another 50 wont change anything. They did care about the ones she had and wont react any different to another box of those.

Formulate a better plan and lets get this done.

In the end if none of this works you can still have what you want. It just takes more effort. Marry her there and file the CR 1.

Yeah that 4k threw up big red flags to me as well. It's a little early in the game for a sin sod, so not sure how to explain that one.

[bigdog 376]

Maybe see and get advice from an immigration attorney.

[AmyWrites 593]

Were you by any chance chatting (in a flirtatious way) with other women on FB or other social networks?

[Karee 4,189]

Maybe see and get advice from an immigration attorney.

Probably a waste of time and money IMO. Attorney's in the U.S. have no idea about the way things work in Bangkok. Attorneys in Bangkok are pretty much over priced scammers in my experience.