Share this if you agree that Israel has the right to self defense

[himher 634]

(laughing) Abraham was not Jewish. There was no such thing as a Jew or Arab before Abraham. The Jews are decendents of one of his sons and Arabs are decendents of the other. You and I are neither. Who are we to decide which decendents of what sons get the land promised to them?

Abraham was Jewish, not some caravan robbing blood thirsty bandit.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Everything in yellow will eventually be part of Israel.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Everything in yellow will eventually be part of Israel.

Fine with me. I'm pro 1SS.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Everything in yellow will eventually be part of Israel.

One state with equal rights for everybody

[OriZ 3,157]

So, short story:

After dwindling rockets from Gaza for the past 5 years - directly due to the truce with Hamas - and a full year of NO ISRAELI DEATHS from Hamas rocket fire, Israel decides to get things going again by assassinating Hamas commander Ahmed al-Jabaari - the same guy who was enforcing the Hamas truce and preventing attacks on Israelis for the past 5 years - along with more than a dozen civilians including children. The assassination prompts a resumption of Hamas rocket fire, resulting in the deaths of 3 Israelis, which is all then used retro-actively to justify Israel's provocation in the first place.

Obviously, Israel decided it would be advantageous to break the truce and escalate the violence at this point in time. Anyone care to guess why ?

Wow, how do you guys manage to distort the truth so much? It's a born talent I tell you. I guess we should apologize for knowing how to protect ourselves. Maybe if people didn't have to run many times in a day and hide in a security room, if we didn't spend a ton of money on Iron Dome, etc etc and we would have had hundreds of deaths, then you would have been ok with it? Of course not, but right now it's convenient. Really sorry we don't like to get killed. You know, this is the type of response I'd fully expect(and have gotten many times in the past) from brainwashed people living in Gaza or other Arab territories where the media only tells them what they want to hear. Not from one living in the states(then again...I guess you don't watch FOX News).

[OriZ 3,157]

Oh and Bad Daddy, you rock.

Real American Male - it has nothing to do with hardliners, almost the whole Israeli population supports this operation, even ones like myself that are not very fond of Netanyahu. Mind you I have many Palestinian and Arab friends, online and in person, and I am also happy to help and have helped anyone on VJ no matter what they're from or who they are. This has nothing to do with human beings...this has everything to do with eliminating terror.

[OriZ 3,157]

Actually, sovereignty is not a requirement for the right to self-defense under international law.

Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Convention of 1949, (Act 1 C4), passed in 1977, declared that armed struggle can be used, as a last resort, as a method of exercising the right of self-determination.

The UN General Assembly's 20th session further clarified in 1965 "the legitimacy of struggle by the people under colonial rules to exercise their rights to self-determination and independent." Moreover, the assembly encouraged "all States to provide material and moral assistance to the national liberation movements in colonial territories."

Furthermore, international law has already granted the Palestinians the right to sovereignty; it has been denied that right by Israel. UNGA Resolution 3236, passed in 1974, recognized that the collective rights of the Palestinian people were fully and properly recognized, including the Palestinian people's right for self-determination in accordance with the United Nations Charter (which, in retrospect gives them the same right of self-defense granted to sovereign states.) In addition, it granted them the right of national independence, sovereignty and right of return to their homes.

Yeah and the UN also said Zionism is racism so really anyone who believes the UN is even relevant anymore needs to come back down to planet earth. I've been saying for years that Israel and the US need to leave the UN and the UN needs to be abolished. BTW, I also think the FED needs to be abolished but that's a whole different issue. So by no means am I ever going to be on the left side of things whether economically, socially or politically. Like I said, doesn't stop me from having friends on all sides and engaging in civil debates with some(whereas some actually agree with me!). However, judging by your signature, we are never going to be in agreement cause to you illegal occupation means all of Israel, not just the occupied territories, which, btw DO NOT include Gaza.

Israel withdrew from Gaza a decade ago, they had their chance to turn it into Las Vegas of the middle east. Instead, they chose to build a front base for Iranian terrorism.

[OriZ 3,157]

"Don't take a knife to a gunfight."

"Hamas rolled the dice and now they are paying the price."

Gaza is going to look worse than it did right after Operation Lead when it's all said and done and the people there have Hamas to blame for it. Hard to feel too sorry for them seeing how they keep reelecting Hamas when they know what the consequences will be. Hamas actions is getting the people of Gaza killed as it has done several times in the past. Hamas is good for shooting rockets and then running and hiding behind women and children. They are cowards with blood on their hands.

While I agree with alot of things you write, I do not think that Israel is going to annex Gaza or go to war with Egypt right now.

[OriZ 3,157]

Iron Sieve stopping fewer than 30% of the rockets....

The Israelis? I agree. If Israel was all that, they would let Palestine arm up, and meet them on the battlefield, man for man, rifle for rifle, tank for tank.

You are just making yourselves look worse and worse. Iron Dome stops 90% of the rockets. And Israel has not one single problem with the Palestinians meeting on the battlefield, Israel has taken on 7 different armies before, all cowards who leave their shoes and run, it will be no different with the Palestinians. It is them who do not want to do it that way, nor does Hezballah nor does Al Qaeda nor does any other terror organization. DUH!! That's what they do. Terror. Not Battle.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-attacks-hamas-media-operations-gaza-062054441.html

Israel attacks Hamas media operations in Gaza

By IBRAHIM BARZAK | Associated Press – 1 hr 39 mins ago

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military widened its range of targets in the Gaza Strip on Sunday to include the media operations of the Palestinian territory's Hamas rulers, sending its aircraft to attack two buildings used by both Hamas and foreign media outlets.

The Israeli military also appeared to take over the frequencies of the radio stations of Hamas and the Islamic Jihad militant group to broadcast a recorded, Arabic-language warning to the people of Gaza to stay away from Hamas installations and personnel.

"To the people of Gaza, Hamas is playing with fire and gambling with your fate," said the message, which was broadcast every five minutes. "The Israel Defense Force is moving toward the second phase of its operation. For your safety, you should stay away from Hamas infrastructure and personnel."

The message did not say what the "second phase" was, but thousands of Israeli troops are massed near the Gaza border, awaiting an order to invade should Israeli leaders decide on that course. Israeli Vice Premier Moshe Yaalon told Army Radio on Sunday that Israel has to be prepared to widen the operation if militants don't back down.

The military spokesman's office said it could not immediately confirm it was broadcasting this message, but said it has issued similar warnings over the radio several days ago.

The attack on the second media center shattered a lull in rocket attacks from Gaza that had taken hold the previous night and coincided with Egyptian-led efforts to negotiate an end to the five-day-old confrontation.

Bassem Madhoun, an employee of Dubai TV, said two missiles hit the 15th floor of the building where Hamas' Al-Aqsa TV studio is located. Rescue workers evacuated several people who had been wounded.

Building windows were blown out and glass shards and debris were scattered on the street below. Some of the journalists who had been inside the building at the time were taking cover in the entrance hallway.

Mohammed Shrafi, a Palestinian cameraman, said he was in the street filming when he was hit by shrapnel coming down from the building.

Asked why Israel was targeting media centers, he replied, "they want to keep us from telling the truth."

Meanwhile, Gaza health official Ashraf al-Kidra reported that the Palestinian death toll from the operation had risen to 49 after a civilian died of wounds sustained in an Israeli airstrike. Earlier Sunday, he said two Gaza teen-agers were killed when another building was hit.

Three Israeli civilians have also been killed since the confrontation began Wednesday.

Israel is reluctant to let up without signs a truce would hold.

Overnight, aircraft targeted dozens of underground rocket launchers, and a major Hamas training base and command center, the military said. It said it also attacked a communications antenna.

Israeli gunboats also fired on militant sites on the Gaza shore line, the military said in a statement, without elaborating.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Bad_Daddy

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Wow, how do you guys manage to distort the truth so much? It's a born talent I tell you. I guess we should apologize for knowing how to protect ourselves. Maybe if people didn't have to run many times in a day and hide in a security room, if we didn't spend a ton of money on Iron Dome, etc etc and we would have had hundreds of deaths, then you would have been ok with it? Of course not, but right now it's convenient. Really sorry we don't like to get killed. You know, this is the type of response I'd fully expect(and have gotten many times in the past) from brainwashed people living in Gaza or other Arab territories where the media only tells them what they want to hear. Not from one living in the states(then again...I guess you don't watch FOX News).

Correction: American tax dollars pay for Israel's defense.

Is U.S. going above and beyond for Israel?

By Walter Pincus, Published: May 16, 2012

Should the United States put solving Israel’s budget problems ahead of its own?

When it comes to defense spending, it appears that the United States already is.

Ehud Barak, Israel’s defense minister, will meet Thursday in Washington with Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta to finalize a deal in which the United States will provide an additional $680 million to Israel over three years. The money is meant to help pay for procuring three or four new batteries and interceptors for Israel’s Iron Dome short-range rocket defense program. The funds may also be used for the systems after their deployment, according to the report of the House Armed Services Committee on the fiscal 2013 Defense Authorization bill.

The Iron Dome funds, already in legislation before Congress, will be on top of the $3.1 billion in military aid grants being provided to Israel in 2013 and every year thereafter through 2017. That deal is part of a 10-year memorandum of understanding agreed to in 2007 during the George W. Bush presidency.

“Those funds are already committed to existing large-ticket purchases, such as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, C-130J transport planes and other items,” according to George Little, spokesman for Panetta. He also said the Israelis had increased their own spending on Iron Dome this year and the U.S. funds are to “augment” their funding.

And there’s more money involved. The House committee version of the defense authorization bill, up for debate on the House floor this week, includes another $168 million “requested by [the] Government of Israel to meet its security requirements,” according to the panel’s report. This money is to be added to three other missile defense systems that have been under joint development by the United States and Israel. The $168 million is in addition to another $99.9 million requested by the Obama administration for those programs.

Israel has had its own debate over what its defense budget should fund. Given its economic problems, the country has cut its defense budget for this year by roughly 5 percent, with another 5 percent cut planned for next year. Its defense experts have debated whether it was more important to put scarce funds into offensive weapons that could destroy enemy missiles or into missile defense systems to protect civilian and military targets. In contrast to the United States, it has also raised taxes on wealthier citizens and upped its corporate tax rate.

The Israeli military has long-term plans to deploy 13 to 14 Iron Dome batteries to defend military and civilian targets against rockets launched from Gaza and Lebanon. If there is any doubt that the U.S. Congress will continue to support the program, one only has to look at the Iron Dome Support Act. The bill was introduced in the House in March by Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-Calif.), the ranking minority member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, along with the panel’s chairman, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.). A companion measure is in the Senate.

The first four batteries of Iron Dome, deployed last year in towns near the Gaza Strip, have proved successful in protecting against Hamas’s rocket attacks. Israeli military sources have said the system had more than a 70 percent success rate last month against incoming rockets.

In early 2007, then-Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz chose Iron Dome to meet the short-range rocket threat. Testing began in 2008, and by January 2010 the system showed it could be effective.

In May 2010, President Obama announced he would ask Congress to add $205 million to the fiscal Pentagon budget for the production phase of Iron Dome. The funds were approved, and in March 2011 the Israel Defense Forces declared the first batteries operational.

Iron Dome was developed and built by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd., an Israeli government-owned, profit-making company that, since 2004, has been headed by retired Vice Adm. Yedidia Yaari, the former commander in chief of the Israel Navy. Rafael’s board chairman is retired Maj. Gen. Ilan Biran, former general director of the Ministry of Defense. In August, Rafael joined Raytheon Co. to market the Iron Dome system worldwide. The two are already partners in one of the other anti-missile systems that is being jointly run by Israel and the Pentagon.

The House committee report noted that the United States will have put $900 million into the Iron Dome system if the full $680 million is used on the program “yet the United States has no rights to the technology involved.”

It added that Missile Defense Agency Director Lt. Gen. Patrick J. O’Reilly should explore opportunities to enter into a joint production arrangement with Israel for future Iron Dome batteries “in light of the significant investment in this system.”

So here is the United States, having added to its own deficit by spending funds that it must borrow, helping to procure a missile defense system for Israel, which faces the threat but supposedly can’t pay for it alone.

To add insult to injury, Pentagon officials must ask the Israeli government-owned company that is profiting from the weapons sales — including Iron Dome — if the United States can have a piece of the action.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Sofiyya

[OriZ 3,157]

Correction of the correction: Israel HAS and DOES put alot of money into the system.

The American Taxpayer pays some of it, but not ALL of it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Correction of the correction: Israel HAS and DOES put alot of money into the system.

The American Taxpayer pays some of it, but not ALL of it.

From the above article:

Israel has had its own debate over what its defense budget should fund. Given its economic problems, the country has cut its defense budget for this year by roughly 5 percent, with another 5 percent cut planned for next year. Its defense experts have debated whether it was more important to put scarce funds into offensive weapons that could destroy enemy missiles or into missile defense systems to protect civilian and military targets. In contrast to the United States, it has also raised taxes on wealthier citizens and upped its corporate tax rate.

Israel pays very little for its defense. America's commitment to Israel is primarily via its input into the maintenance of Israel's defense systems.

US taxpayers paid more to Israeli defense budget than Israelis

The Israeli army’s chief of staff states that in the past three years, “US taxpayers have contributed more to the Israeli defense budget than Israeli taxpayers,” according to a report in the Jerusalem Post, a prominent Israeli newspaper

by Alison Weir

According to the report, Lieutenant-General Gabi Ashkenazi made the statement during a speech on September 11th. In it he emphasized: “We must preserve ties with the United States. I believe this is a security necessity.”

According to the newspaper the speech was at the Calcalist Conference, which appears to be an annual event in Tel Aviv sponsored by the Calcalist newspaper, an Israeli Hebrew-only daily financial newspaper. It is is part of the group that publishes Yedioth Ahronoth, the largest circulation newspaper in Israel.

American taxpayers give Israel over $3 billion per year (over $8 million per day), more than to any other nation, despite the fact that Israel is smaller than New Jersey and is in the top 30 richest countries in the world.

Per capita, Israelis receive $10,000 more U.S. tax money than average.

Some of the other top recipients of US tax money, Egypt and Jordan, were provided this assistance in return for diplomatic recognition of the Israeli state.

According to the Congressional Research Service, Israel is given this money in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year. Americans then pay interest on money they have given to Israel, while Israel makes interest on it.

In recent years Israel has reported a lower unemployment rate than the US and a better account balance.

Ashkenazi’s statements are extremely significant, since this is the first time that an Israeli leader has pointed out that American taxpayers pay more to Israel’s defense budget than do Israelis.

If the costs of the Iraq war, which was largely pushed by Israel partisans in the Bush administration, were added into the equation, the American tax money on behalf of Israel would quite likely dwarf the amount paid by Israeli taxpayers.

Some top economists predict that the cost of the Iraq war will be $3 trillion.

Israel has a population of about 7 million people.

Today, Israel partisans are similarly pushing attacks on Iran.

Israel has frequently been accused of using American funds in violation of U.S. arms control laws.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Sofiyya

[OriZ 3,157]

You can quote the above article, but it does not change the fact that Israel paid in part for the system. For one, the first two(out of 6) were paid by Israel. The others were paid by the states. R&D - done in Israel. And, even these days there is talks of Israel adding more funds of its own.

And either way, look at the bright side - it's much better when your tax dollars go for a system like that than for foolish bailouts of failed companies. At least that's my opinion.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You can quote the above article, but it does not change the fact that Israel paid in part for the system. For one, the first two(out of 6) were paid by Israel. The others were paid by the states. R&D - done in Israel. And, even these days there is talks of Israel adding more funds of its own.

And either way, look at the bright side - it's much better when your tax dollars go for a system like that than for foolish bailouts of failed companies. At least that's my opinion.

We've paid for the R&D, the implementation, but are unable to share in the profits. It's a common scenario, shared not only by Israeli companies, but by American companies that also use American tax dollars to develop profit making products. If Americans would pay less attention to Kim Kardashian and more to the US budgetary system, this would be a different country with less dependent allies.