Denny's owner plans 'Obamacare surcharge'

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As I said before, it happens...but then customers go elsewhere until the 1.50 is dropped or at least minimized. Demand determines prices.

And the Denny's owner takes that risk, it is his risk to take.

However if there were a LAW that all these mandates had to be individually itemized by each business...like we do with sales tax...it would make a huge difference in the nonsense spewed by politicians.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As I said before, it happens...but then customers go elsewhere until the 1.50 is dropped or at least minimized. Demand determines prices.

And so if we eliminated incoem tax and all these payroll taxes that are imbedded in the price of everything and replace it with a sales tax, the imbedded tax would go away right? Because of demand, right? Yet when that is suggested (like FAIR TAX) the opponents twell us that greedy business will keep the money and still charge the sales tax.

Also the FAIR TAX would make Mr. Big Dog happy because then I could not avoid paying it, like I will with income tax.

[james&olya 1,121]

I don't think it is a matter of market share. It rains on both sides of the ball, so to speak. This is simply a matter of a person making a statement. "THIS COSTS YOU" it is true and should be shown to everyone. But the whole concept is to conceal the cost, a hidden tax, just like withholding tax. If everyone had to write a check for income tax on April 15th, this gamesmanship would STOP. You will be paying not only for YOUR health insurance but for everyone else's. Now you may pay for that now, maybe not (depends on whether the employer offers insurance) but I see no problem with everyone adding the surcharge as a seprate line item on the bill. Why not?

Why would you be against delineating the cost? I am not arguing the concept of public funded health insurance, and neither is this owner, just saying he is going to show everyone the price tag. What's the problem?

You will be paying for other people's health insurance when you buy their goods and services. You also help them pay their mortgage, heating bill, groceries, beer, porno DVD's, whatever. As they have done for you for so many years. It is how our economy works. Should all of that or just all other individual business expenses or employee benefits also get itemized on your bill? Isn't all that a little bit ridiculous? Let him delineate all he wants. It will serve to piss off half the population who will know to take their business elsewhere.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

And so if we eliminated incoem tax and all these payroll taxes that are imbedded in the price of everything and replace it with a sales tax, the imbedded tax would go away right? Because of demand, right? Yet when that is suggested (like FAIR TAX) the opponents twell us that greedy business will keep the money and still charge the sales tax.

Also the FAIR TAX would make Mr. Big Dog happy because then I could not avoid paying it, like I will with income tax.

It depends on elasticity of supply and demand as some products do not have taxes imbedded in the cost, some have very little imbedded, while others its completely imbedded. The two extremes are obviously the rarest...ie producers and consumers share the tax burden at some ratio for most products.

[Danno 1,228]

It depends on elasticity of supply and demand as some products do not have taxes imbedded in the cost, some have very little imbedded, while others its completely imbedded. The two extremes are obviously the rarest...ie producers and consumers share the tax burden at some ratio for most products.

YOu are right but if the State gives notice (by law) on each gas pump how much per gaL is in tax..... whats wrong with this guy doing it too?

[james&olya 1,121]

YOu are right but if the State gives notice (by law) on each gas pump how much per gaL is in tax..... whats wrong with this guy doing it too?

He can give his customers an itemization on anything he wants. Maybe he wants to make an issue of the cost of providing toilet paper for the employee restroom. Try listing that on the restaurant bill! My guess is that MOST people are glad to know that the places they do business provide health care for their employees so that they don't become burdens on the tax-payers and because it is the socially and morally right thing to do. It is, or at least should be, just one of the costs of doing business.

[Danno 1,228]

He can give his customers an itemization on anything he wants. Maybe he wants to make an issue of the cost of providing toilet paper for the employee restroom. Try listing that on the restaurant bill! My guess is that MOST people are glad to know that the places they do business provide health care for their employees so that they don't become burdens on the tax-payers and because it is the socially and morally right thing to do. It is, or at least should be, just one of the costs of doing business.

Your guess would be wrong if your sentence included the word "Obamacare" but since it is so broad I suppose you are right.

[james&olya 1,121]

Your guess would be wrong if your sentence included the word "Obamacare" but since it is so broad I suppose you are right.

The term Obamacare was coined and used to deride the bill. Many people are opposed to 'Obamacare' as a result of the steady negative drumbeat by Fox and other right-wing media but nonetheless support its separate features when it is explained to them. I am guessing that 'Obamacare' is a term that will eventually be as positive as 'Medicare' is now and it will have seriously back-fired on its republican and tea-party detractors!

Edited November 18, 2012 by james&olya

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

You can tell a young man who cool it is to have sex . . . until he has experienced it himself, he can't possibly imagine what it's like.

Unless you learn that you have ####### cancer and due to the lack of insurance, you will painfully die within a year, you can't possibly imagine how you would feel about it. Sure, you will try to get insurance at any price, but you can't; no insurance company will take you. You go to the ER and complain about pain, and they will give you some pain medicine and send you home again. Every morning your bed is soaked in blood, and the pain seems to be unbearable. Now you learn that your boss, who happens to be worth a few hundred million dollars, tells you that he can't really provide health insurance to his employees, as that would increase the price of his pizza by about 4 cents. As long it's not you in this situation, or your spouse, you cannot comprehend how f*cked up this is. I've tried to explain this to friends in Europe when they visit on their paid 4-week summer vacation, but such a thing is incomprehensible for anybody from an industrialized nation.

But it's just a matter of time. Just like the young man who will not want to miss having sex again, the American people will never want to miss affordable healthcare once they have experienced this. Not having to fear getting sick or having an accident, not having to fear losing everything you ever worked for along the way, is priceless. We know why the 1%er don't want Obamacare. But many of the 99% who reject it may do so because they don't know what it's going to cost them.

Well, here's a study that will tell you that, and it's quite affordable, hence the name Affordable Health Act.

http://truecostblog.com/2012/08/07/how-much-will-insurance-cost-under-obamacare/

My wife's hospital bills have now climbed over the $300K mark, which is obscene, but at $360 per month for her insurance, plus up to $2,500 deductible per year, it beats the alternative of her being dead and me being a bankrupt widower.

[Danno 1,228]

You can tell a young man who cool it is to have sex . . . until he has experienced it himself, he can't possibly imagine what it's like.

Unless you learn that you have ####### cancer and due to the lack of insurance, you will painfully die within a year, you can't possibly imagine how you would feel about it. Sure, you will try to get insurance at any price, but you can't; no insurance company will take you. You go to the ER and complain about pain, and they will give you some pain medicine and send you home again. Every morning your bed is soaked in blood, and the pain seems to be unbearable. Now you learn that your boss, who happens to be worth a few hundred million dollars, tells you that he can't really provide health insurance to his employees, as that would increase the price of his pizza by about 4 cents. As long it's not you in this situation, or your spouse, you cannot comprehend how f*cked up this is. I've tried to explain this to friends in Europe when they visit on their paid 4-week summer vacation, but such a thing is incomprehensible for anybody from an industrialized nation.

But it's just a matter of time. Just like the young man who will not want to miss having sex again, the American people will never want to miss affordable healthcare once they have experienced this. Not having to fear getting sick or having an accident, not having to fear losing everything you ever worked for along the way, is priceless. We know why the 1%er don't want Obamacare. But many of the 99% who reject it may do so because they don't know what it's going to cost them.

Well, here's a study that will tell you that, and it's quite affordable, hence the name Affordable Health Act.

http://truecostblog.com/2012/08/07/how-much-will-insurance-cost-under-obamacare/

My wife's hospital bills have now climbed over the $300K mark, which is obscene, but at $360 per month for her insurance, plus up to $2,500 deductible per year, it beats the alternative of her being dead and me being a bankrupt widower.

Awwe quit your cryin, what you really want is your neighbors to pay your bill so you can maintain the level 3 cable package.

Catastrophic Health care insurance is more than reasonable... if you don't want to buy it ... buck up, why should everyone else pay your freight?

[james&olya 1,121]

You can tell a young man who cool it is to have sex . . . until he has experienced it himself, he can't possibly imagine what it's like.

Unless you learn that you have ####### cancer and due to the lack of insurance, you will painfully die within a year, you can't possibly imagine how you would feel about it. Sure, you will try to get insurance at any price, but you can't; no insurance company will take you. You go to the ER and complain about pain, and they will give you some pain medicine and send you home again. Every morning your bed is soaked in blood, and the pain seems to be unbearable. Now you learn that your boss, who happens to be worth a few hundred million dollars, tells you that he can't really provide health insurance to his employees, as that would increase the price of his pizza by about 4 cents. As long it's not you in this situation, or your spouse, you cannot comprehend how f*cked up this is. I've tried to explain this to friends in Europe when they visit on their paid 4-week summer vacation, but such a thing is incomprehensible for anybody from an industrialized nation.

But it's just a matter of time. Just like the young man who will not want to miss having sex again, the American people will never want to miss affordable healthcare once they have experienced this. Not having to fear getting sick or having an accident, not having to fear losing everything you ever worked for along the way, is priceless. We know why the 1%er don't want Obamacare. But many of the 99% who reject it may do so because they don't know what it's going to cost them.

Well, here's a study that will tell you that, and it's quite affordable, hence the name Affordable Health Act.

http://truecostblog.com/2012/08/07/how-much-will-insurance-cost-under-obamacare/

My wife's hospital bills have now climbed over the $300K mark, which is obscene, but at $360 per month for her insurance, plus up to $2,500 deductible per year, it beats the alternative of her being dead and me being a bankrupt widower.

I hope your wife is doing well. Good health is more important than any material possession!

I think the reason the right wingers have fought so hard against Obamacare as they like to call it is precisely because they realize that it will be very difficult to convince Americans to give it up once they have it. Like Social Security and Medicare it is a form of socialism but one that almost everyone wants. I think the pendulum has swung about as far right as it will go and we will now see it swinging to the left.

Edited November 18, 2012 by james&olya

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Then you are in favor of the surcharge and agree with me.

It is not a conspiracy, some people really are that stupid.

I am going to be paying $147 per month for medicaid! (Medicaid is damn good insurance though, about the best) I currently pay more than $1200 per month for premiums and co-pays for a family plan.

Yes but yours is subsidized, which is what I think you are saying anyway. The poster that thought an employer could get a health plan for 60 bucks per employee obviously has not a clue. . I think I pay about 260 per month or so for myself and my wife and I think that is only about 20-30% of the whole cost. The company foots the rest.

[Danno 1,228]

You can tell a young man who cool it is to have sex . . . until he has experienced it himself, he can't possibly imagine what it's like.

Unless you learn that you have ####### cancer and due to the lack of insurance, you will painfully die within a year, you can't possibly imagine how you would feel about it. Sure, you will try to get insurance at any price, but you can't; no insurance company will take you. You go to the ER and complain about pain, and they will give you some pain medicine and send you home again. Every morning your bed is soaked in blood, and the pain seems to be unbearable. Now you learn that your boss, who happens to be worth a few hundred million dollars, tells you that he can't really provide health insurance to his employees, as that would increase the price of his pizza by about 4 cents. As long it's not you in this situation, or your spouse, you cannot comprehend how f*cked up this is. I've tried to explain this to friends in Europe when they visit on their paid 4-week summer vacation, but such a thing is incomprehensible for anybody from an industrialized nation.

But it's just a matter of time. Just like the young man who will not want to miss having sex again, the American people will never want to miss affordable healthcare once they have experienced this. Not having to fear getting sick or having an accident, not having to fear losing everything you ever worked for along the way, is priceless. We know why the 1%er don't want Obamacare. But many of the 99% who reject it may do so because they don't know what it's going to cost them.

Well, here's a study that will tell you that, and it's quite affordable, hence the name Affordable Health Act.

http://truecostblog.com/2012/08/07/how-much-will-insurance-cost-under-obamacare/

My wife's hospital bills have now climbed over the $300K mark, which is obscene, but at $360 per month for her insurance, plus up to $2,500 deductible per year, it beats the alternative of her being dead and me being a bankrupt widower.

I didn't catch that you mentioned your wife in your rambling post..... or I would have made my same point, perhaps a bit softer.

One of the things I find whenever I have this conversation with people is.... -Everyone things in the Obamacare deal they will pay less and somehow it will get picked up.. but then can never tell me by who.

This isn't like driving a car where some people just never get in an accident we all get sick and die... yet everyone is certain that this system will work out better for THEM.

Who here actually believes the average person will pay more in than they get back.

Ahh you're a liar and you know it.

This is all part of the mind-set where we are able to vote ourself treasure from the Public troff, in one form or another.

We have become looters, not by nature but by circumstance. It's like you are standing in front of a dept. store being looted and the cops don't even care... in thirty minutes everything will be gone, so you ask yourself.... "If I hang on to my principles how does that help anyone, everything will be gone in a few minutes anyway so why not grab a handful too?'

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I have been saying to disconnect it from employment about forever. This is what should have been done first.

1. Tort reform to eliminate lawsuits except for strict liability and negligence

2. Disconnet from employment, require the amounts currently spent for premiums be transferred to employees as payment

3. Allow employees to buy health insurance they way they buy car or home insurance.

I want to see ads for GEICO medical insurance with a cute talking lizard...or hot Ukrainian chick.

Do you realize that would be akin to dismantling the IRS, and people would be responsible for saving their own money. I agree with every point you made. Way too many admin people in health care. Way to many settlement mill lawyers growing rich off frivolous lawsuits.

[james&olya 1,121]

This is all part of the mind-set where we are able to vote ourself treasure from the Public troff, in one form or another.

We have become looters, not by nature but by circumstance. It's like you are standing in front of a dept. store being looted and the cops don't even care... in thirty minutes everything will be gone, so you ask yourself.... "If I hang on to my principles how does that help anyone, everything will be gone in a few minutes anyway so why not grab a handful too?'

Your analogy to looting only works if you have the mind-set that the store is owned by someone ELSE. We on the left believe that we are all co-owners of this 'store' called the United States of America. We decide democratically how it will be run and how its benefits are to be divided. If it sounds like socialism, well, in many ways it is. And most Americans, whether they call it that or not, like it that way! We recognize the value and necessity of certain capitalistic principles but we also recognize that unbridled capitalism is at least as ugly as extreme socialism. A moderate blend of the two works best. Not what those of you who like to think in black and white prefer. Like GWB, you don't do 'nuance'!