I-864 - Asset only, no income

[seema45 0]

Can I show asset only (401k funds), no income for the last three years while completing the I-864 (more than 125% x 3). - All of them can be readily accessible without any penalty. There is no monthly steady income. Can I go without the help of a Joint Sponsor? Thank you for your positive feedback and comments.

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

**** moving from CR-1 Progress Report to CR-1 Procedures ****

Yes you can show assets only (we did). When using assets only, they like you to be comfortably over.

[sunshine_84 11]

Can I show asset only (401k funds), no income for the last three years while completing the I-864 (more than 125% x 3). - All of them can be readily accessible without any penalty. There is no monthly steady income. Can I go without the help of a Joint Sponsor? Thank you for your positive feedback and comments.

Since I read your thread, so I thought to just give my opinion. Though I have not personal experience of your situation but it's my opinion only. There are other VJ veterans who may have an exact answer to your question.

From what I understand, NVC requires petitioner to make above poverty guidelines for the most recent year and needs an evidence to prove you are making enough money to meet poverty guidelines for 2012 year. In your case you are thinking to represent asset and not your income, so I suspect you will be asked to provide a co-sponsor to provide a continuous source of income.

You are reporting 401K asset which is not available to withdraw until you retire except you withdraw with a penalty.

Edited May 31, 2012 by smart84

[Dave&Roza 748]

Can I show asset only (401k funds), no income for the last three years while completing the I-864 (more than 125% x 3). - All of them can be readily accessible without any penalty. There is no monthly steady income. Can I go without the help of a Joint Sponsor? Thank you for your positive feedback and comments.

Your answer is contained within the instructions of the I-864. It states that assets can be used if they can be converted readily to cash within one year and not harm the household. The value of the assets must be 5X the amount needed to reach the 125% of the poverty guidelines. The net value of a home can be used which is the appraised value minus any liens. Find it in the instructions and read it carefully as you are depending on this to avoid a co-sponsor. I only glanced at this part as my income was well above the 125% threshold of the povery guidelines. Your assest should be well over 100K for a family of two to consider this option IMHO.

Good luck,

Dave

Edited May 31, 2012 by Dave&Roza

[Anh map 2,098]

Your answer is contained within the instructions of the I-864. It states that assets can be used if they can be converted readily to cash within one year and not harm the household. The value of the assets must be 5X the amount needed to reach the 125% of the poverty guidelines. The net value of a home can be used which is the appraised value minus any liens. Find it in the instructions and read it carefully as you are depending on this to avoid a co-sponsor. I only glanced at this part as my income was well above the 125% threshold of the povery guidelines. Your assest should be well over 100K for a family of two to consider this option IMHO.

Good luck,

Dave

The multiplier is 3X for a spousal petition, not 5X.

[Dave&Roza 748]

The multiplier is 3X for a spousal petition, not 5X.

Please help me find that part as I could only find the example under #29 about value of assets and it mentions 5X. Where does it state 3X for any type of immigrant? As I say, I only see where it says for a parent the value of the assets must be 5X. I have not found where it is 3X for a spouse and 5X for everybody else. Can you help me so I give out correct advice in the future?

Thanks.

Dave

[Anh map 2,098]

Please help me find that part as I could only find the example under #29 about value of assets and it mentions 5X. Where does it state 3X for any type of immigrant? As I say, I only see where it says for a parent the value of the assets must be 5X. I have not found where it is 3X for a spouse and 5X for everybody else. Can you help me so I give out correct advice in the future?

Thanks.

Dave

Slog through the Adjudicator's Field Manual to section 20.5 ( Adjudicator's Field Manual - Redacted Public Version \ Chapter 20 Immigrants in General \ 20.5 Enforceable Affidavits of Support ) and you will find it.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.f6da51a2342135be7e9d7a10e0dc91a0/?vgnextoid=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=fa7e539dc4bed010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&CH=afm

[Dave&Roza 748]

Slog through the Adjudicator's Field Manual to section 20.5 ( Adjudicator's Field Manual - Redacted Public Version \ Chapter 20 Immigrants in General \ 20.5 Enforceable Affidavits of Support ) and you will find it.

http://www.uscis.gov...190aRCRD&CH=afm

Thanks for that. I just wish the instructions had the correct amount listed as they state 5X whereas in 2006 the amount was reduced from 5X to 3X. I guess the person assigned to edit the instructions did not read that part. . If more people read thru this the number of question on VJ would go down, but it is a typical government document making it a very dry read.

Again thanks for giving me the correct information and teaching me something today.

Dave

[pushbrk 12,978]

Can I show asset only (401k funds), no income for the last three years while completing the I-864 (more than 125% x 3). - All of them can be readily accessible without any penalty. There is no monthly steady income. Can I go without the help of a Joint Sponsor? Thank you for your positive feedback and comments.

Unless you are already 59.5 years of age, your 401K money is NOT readily accessible without any penalty. You might manage if you have well over 3 X the income requirement in the 401k. By "well over" I'm thinking at least 6 times the income requirement if under 59.5 years of age and maybe 4 to 5 times if over that age.

[pushbrk 12,978]

Since I read your thread, so I thought to just give my opinion. Though I have not personal experience of your situation but it's my opinion only. There are other VJ veterans who may have an exact answer to your question.

From what I understand, NVC requires petitioner to make above poverty guidelines for the most recent year and needs an evidence to prove you are making enough money to meet poverty guidelines for 2012 year. In your case you are thinking to represent asset and not your income, so I suspect you will be asked to provide a co-sponsor to provide a continuous source of income.

You are reporting 401K asset which is not available to withdraw until you retire except you withdraw with a penalty.

The bold sentence above is not correct. The "requirements" are spelled out in the I-864 instructions. NVC does NOT make the decision on the I-864 income or assets being adequate. That decision is made at the Consulate. If the income is clearly too low and no mention is made of assets, NVC will require an affidavit from a qualified joint sponsor.

What NVC generally does when somebody attempts to qualify based on assets is to send them a letter indicating their income is not sufficient and that the Consulate MAY require a joint sponsor before approving the visa. I've seen them do this when the "asset" was a $100,000 boat supplementing a military disability payment and for an 80 year old petitioner showing over $600,000 in mutual funds and a mortgage free condo. Both passed muster with the Consulate but got the same exact letter from NVC.

Whether you'll be successful using a 401k to qualify depends a lot on how much more than the 3X the income is actually in there AND your age.

More specifically with regard to the "income" portion of the bolded statement above, there is no question about 2012 or "current year" income. The question is about "current income". It's not the same thing. You could have made 60k already this year and lost your job yesterday. That would make your "current income" zero. Or, you could have just started a new job for 60k on the first of May after two years of no income and your "current income" would be $60k, even if your 2012 income would only be $35k.

When you "don't really know", it's best to wait for others who DO KNOW to come along with the right answers.

Edited May 31, 2012 by pushbrk

[seema45 0]

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments. I am more than 59.5 yrs old and all my assets are kept at rolled over IRA with the reputed financial brokerage firm. But, I am a semi-retired and I can easily show 10x of the poverty level. BUT, the only issue is that I am not working anywhere. All of my 401K funds are readily accessible (Fixed deposit, stocks, corporate bond, cash....). I dont have any liabilities. I am worreid that the MUMBAI consulate in India may still require a co-ponsor in my situation?????

[pushbrk 12,978]

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments. I am more than 59.5 yrs old and all my assets are kept at rolled over IRA with the reputed financial brokerage firm. But, I am a semi-retired and I can easily show 10x of the poverty level. BUT, the only issue is that I am not working anywhere. All of my 401K funds are readily accessible (Fixed deposit, stocks, corporate bond, cash....). I dont have any liabilities. I am worreid that the MUMBAI consulate in India may still require a co-ponsor in my situation?????

You'll never know for certain until the interview is complete but I expect given your age and showing more than 10 times the poverty level in assets, you'll have no trouble.

[sunshine_84 11]

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments. I am more than 59.5 yrs old and all my assets are kept at rolled over IRA with the reputed financial brokerage firm. But, I am a semi-retired and I can easily show 10x of the poverty level. BUT, the only issue is that I am not working anywhere. All of my 401K funds are readily accessible (Fixed deposit, stocks, corporate bond, cash....). I dont have any liabilities. I am worreid that the MUMBAI consulate in India may still require a co-ponsor in my situation?????

I would recommend you to post another regional specific thread in "India" section on VJ. Someone who had similar situation may able to share their experience with Mumbai Consulate, otherwise go thru Mumbai consulate reviews and search if anyone reported experience with similar situation.

[tw_soup 0]

Please help me find that part as I could only find the example under #29 about value of assets and it mentions 5X. Where does it state 3X for any type of immigrant? As I say, I only see where it says for a parent the value of the assets must be 5X. I have not found where it is 3X for a spouse and 5X for everybody else. Can you help me so I give out correct advice in the future?

Thanks.

Dave

It is actually on the bottom right corner of page 5 the i-864 form!

In the little box it says:

"The total value of all assests, line 29, must equal 5 times (3 times for spouses and children of USCs, or 1 time for orphans to be formally adopted in the U.S.) the difference between the poverty guidelines and the sponsor's household income, line 24c."

[Dave&Roza 748]

It is actually on the bottom right corner of page 5 the i-864 form!

In the little box it says:

"The total value of all assests, line 29, must equal 5 times (3 times for spouses and children of USCs, or 1 time for orphans to be formally adopted in the U.S.) the difference between the poverty guidelines and the sponsor's household income, line 24c."

Thanks, but you do realize that I posted this almost a year ago.

Dave