THANKSGIVING REMARKS: Obama talks for 3 minutes, never mentions GOD.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

...wait...have you actually celebrated Canadian Thanksgiving? I have. Probably for more years than your first marriage lasted.

It's the same damn thing. Including (the admittedly lesser sport of) Canadian football. With turkey. Ham. Stuffing. Potatoes. And having to deal with your unfortunate extended family and in-laws.

I don't even get why you'd compare it to St Patrick's Day?

Yes, it is a pretty good holiday for us here in Vermont. It is the same day as Columbus Day, a "Monday holiday" which lessens anything in my opinion, and usually our biggest single retail sales day of the year, the official language is changed to French for the day as more than three times the nornal amount of Quebecois escape the high taxes to pay for health care and come to drop their good Canadian dollars (we call them "loonies") here. I have no idea why they are not at home eating a big meal.

So you are right, not nearly as many Irish people come here from Boston. I stand corrected.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Danno 1,228]

Try reading the accounts of William Bradford, governor of Plymouth Colony, who wrote of the Thanksgiving celebrations in the 1620's. It's ironic given your avatar especially, since the colony was decimated by the communist society they were forced into with the Mayflower Compact. The adult males were forced to sign before they left the ship. This was because the colonists had originally invested in stock ownership of a colony that was supposed to be established in Virginia, with each investor sharing in plantation profits beginning four years after landing in proportion to their investment. But they were forced to colonize in Massachussets instead, and did so at the former site of an Indian village wiped out by plagues introduced by fishermen who came before the colonists.

I think it was 1623 after near total annihilation from starvation that they finally allowed colonists to plant individual plots of their own and reap the rewards of their own labor. Bradford wrote about the vanity and conceit of Plato's theory that seizing everyone's property and holding it in common would be an ideal society.

If anything, Thanksgiving should be a rememberance of thanking our lucky stars we are not communists and starving to death.

-If you were contending that these Pilgrims killed off the natives with illness, you did not.

-Your mention of William Bradford raises another historical note as to what the essence of Thanksgiving has always been. (Though it can be personally, anything to anyone).

Here is William Bradfords .....

Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1662.

Inasmuch as the great Father has given us this year an abundant harvest of Indian corn, wheat, peas, beans, squashes, and garden vegetables, and has made the forests to abound with game and the sea with fish and clams, and inasmuch as he has protected us from the ravages of the savages, has spared us from pestilence and disease, has granted us freedom to worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience.

Now I, your magistrate, do proclaim that all ye Pilgrims, with your wives and ye little ones, do gather at ye meeting house, on ye hill, between the hours of 9 and 12 in the day time, on Thursday, November 29th, of the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred and twenty-three and the third year since ye Pilgrims landed on ye Pilgrim Rock, there to listen to ye pastor and render thanksgiving to ye Almighty God for all His blessings.

--William Bradford

Ye Governor of Ye Colony

All thanks went toward God, not leaders, not Indians, not the hard work and efforts of family or community.

I'm still waiting for those who suggest ThanksGiving is not religious by our history or tradition to make their case.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

-If you were contending that these Pilgrims killed off the natives with illness, you did not.

-Your mention of William Bradford raises another historical note as to what the essence of Thanksgiving has always been. (Though it can be personally, anything to anyone).

Here is William Bradfords .....

Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1662.

Inasmuch as the great Father has given us this year an abundant harvest of Indian corn, wheat, peas, beans, squashes, and garden vegetables, and has made the forests to abound with game and the sea with fish and clams, and inasmuch as he has protected us from the ravages of the savages, has spared us from pestilence and disease, has granted us freedom to worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience.

Now I, your magistrate, do proclaim that all ye Pilgrims, with your wives and ye little ones, do gather at ye meeting house, on ye hill, between the hours of 9 and 12 in the day time, on Thursday, November 29th, of the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred and twenty-three and the third year since ye Pilgrims landed on ye Pilgrim Rock, there to listen to ye pastor and render thanksgiving to ye Almighty God for all His blessings.

--William Bradford

Ye Governor of Ye Colony

All thanks went toward God, not leaders, not Indians, not the hard work and efforts of family or community.

I'm still waiting for those who suggest ThanksGiving is not religious by our history or tradition to make their case.

So why hasn't any organized religion adopted it as a holiday? Why is it not celebrated in England where the Pilgrims came from?

I mean, I remember as a kid that our church "celebrated" Mother's Day with a special service and tribute to mothers, but Mother's Day is a not a religious holiday.

There is no need for the President of the United States to mention "God" at any time, really.I do not question that some of our founding fathers were men of faith, any group of men from any period in time is going to include some men/women of faith. So what? They also had the forethought to eliminate the influence of religion from government.

[Danno 1,228]

So why hasn't any organized religion adopted it as a holiday? Why is it not celebrated in England where the Pilgrims came from?

I mean, I remember as a kid that our church "celebrated" Mother's Day with a special service and tribute to mothers, but Mother's Day is a not a religious holiday.

There is no need for the President of the United States to mention "God" at any time, really.I do not question that some of our founding fathers were men of faith, any group of men from any period in time is going to include some men/women of faith. So what? They also had the forethought to eliminate the influence of religion from government.

Mothers Day I suppose could have a spiritual angle for some who want to veiw it on that context but -as a nation, we have no history or tradition of Mothers Day being anything other than a day to give thanks and appreciation toward mothers.

Thanksgiving on the other hand has a distinct history and tradition of giving thanks to God... and in the later few decades others as well.

That you don't like that fact is not odd, that you can't face it is.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Danno

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Mothers Day I suppose could have a spiritual angle for some who want to veiw it on that context but -as a nation, we have no history or tradition of Mothers Day being anything other than a day to give thanks and appreciation toward mothers.

Thanksgiving on the other hand has a distinct history and tradition of giving thanks to God... and in the later few decades others as well.

That you don't like that fact is not odd, that you can't face it is.

Which religion adopted it as a holiday? Should be easy to answer. Christianity? Catholicism? Lutheran? Jewish? Which?

I do not care that the holiday has a religious meaning for many people, of course it does, so does Mother's Day or St. Patricks day. Even Halloween in that it is "Hallowed Eve" before All Saints Day. I am simply saying religion has no place in government and the President need not mention it.

But don't worry, I am not going to vote for Obama just because he did the right thing in this case.

[Danno 1,228]

Which religion adopted it as a holiday? Should be easy to answer. Christianity? Catholicism? Lutheran? Jewish? Which?

I do not care that the holiday has a religious meaning for many people, of course it does, so does Mother's Day or St. Patricks day. Even Halloween in that it is "Hallowed Eve" before All Saints Day. I am simply saying religion has no place in government and the President need not mention it.

But don't worry, I am not going to vote for Obama just because he did the right thing in this case.

As I earlier said, I get you don't think Thanksgiving "Should" be about thanking God as a national holiday, I just don't get where you refuse to admit the well documented fact that OUR GOVERNMENT officially recognizes an obligation to give thanks To God.

Now I know that burns your butt

But the proof has been delivered now DEAL

[rlogan 2,036]

-If you were contending that these Pilgrims killed off the natives with illness, you did not.

I can't make any sense of this.

-Your mention of William Bradford raises another historical note as to what the essence of Thanksgiving has always been. (Though it can be personally, anything to anyone).

Here is William Bradfords .....

Thanksgiving Proclamation in 1662.

Inasmuch as the great Father has given us this year an abundant harvest of Indian corn, wheat, peas, beans, squashes, and garden vegetables, and has made the forests to abound with game and the sea with fish and clams, and inasmuch as he has protected us from the ravages of the savages, has spared us from pestilence and disease, has granted us freedom to worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience.

Now I, your magistrate, do proclaim that all ye Pilgrims, with your wives and ye little ones, do gather at ye meeting house, on ye hill, between the hours of 9 and 12 in the day time, on Thursday, November 29th, of the year of our Lord one thousand six hundred and twenty-three and the third year since ye Pilgrims landed on ye Pilgrim Rock, there to listen to ye pastor and render thanksgiving to ye Almighty God for all His blessings.

--William Bradford

Ye Governor of Ye Colony

All thanks went toward God, not leaders, not Indians, not the hard work and efforts of family or community.

I'm still waiting for those who suggest ThanksGiving is not religious by our history or tradition to make their case.

Are you trying to say that the irrational superstitions of the ancient ignorants should dictate what we think and do today? These particular pilgrims fled to the New World in objection to the progressive thought and freedom that was developing in Europe. They didn't take a breath without praying and thanking their imaginary sky-daddy, and they were extremely repressive towards anyone practicing ghastly acts like dancing around the Maypole.

This particular passage, that the imaginary sky-daddy should be thanked for what they produced instead of hard work and the help of the Indians in showing them so much... wow, nothing worthy of emulating there. As if we could sit stupidly on our butts and the sky-daddy will feed us!

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Superstitious people are everywhere. Look no further than the headlines on this very board.

HELP . . . visa denied!

THANK GOD . . . approved!

If something has a good outcome, it's because the imaginary sky daddy did it. If it's bad they don't ask their GOD for help, they ask us poor schmacks instead.

Logic? Of course not. Superstition.

[Danno 1,228]

Are you trying to say that the irrational superstitions of the ancient ignorants should dictate what we think and do today? These particular pilgrims fled to the New World in objection to the progressive thought and freedom that was developing in Europe. They didn't take a breath without praying and thanking their imaginary sky-daddy, and they were extremely repressive towards anyone practicing ghastly acts like dancing around the Maypole.

This particular passage, that the imaginary sky-daddy should be thanked for what they produced instead of hard work and the help of the Indians in showing them so much... wow, nothing worthy of emulating there. As if we could sit stupidly on our butts and the sky-daddy will feed us!

I don't know what you want me to say???

These fanatics came here and birthed a country which even today is more powerful than any other country in the world and you whine about it.

We have seen the Countries which embrace atheism rather than a faith and death toll is Staggering, unknown before in human history.

The freedoms and liberty you enjoy come from in-part these fanatics and the country and society they built.... yet you mock is.

Tsk tsk tsk.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As I earlier said, I get you don't think Thanksgiving "Should" be about thanking God as a national holiday, I just don't get where you refuse to admit the well documented fact that OUR GOVERNMENT officially recognizes an obligation to give thanks To God.

Now I know that burns your butt

But the proof has been delivered now DEAL

oh no. And I was having such a nice day. Now this...

Danno, you have to understand that I would be a atheist but it requires a lot more thought about "God" than I am willing to commit to, so you needn't worry about how I "deal" with it.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Dan and Judy 614]

Wouldn't it be egotistical to be talking about himself all the time?

[Dakine10 5,452]

OUR GOVERNMENT officially recognizes an obligation to give thanks To God.

That contradicts the title of the thread. If they were obligited to give thanks to God,they would have done so,and you would not have needed to start this thread.

Now what our government is really obligated to do is officially recognize a separtion of church and state. And that's why God is officially recognized when the holiday is officially recognized as a religious one. Don't worry, Christmas will soon be here.

[Max1gk 68]

In this country there's already a highly dangerous level of scientific illiteracy, therefore we don't need more medioeval superstitious speeches to inflate it even more...+1 for Obama on this one,even if I'm disappointed about his presidency.

[The_Dude 1,142]

It seems Danno won't be happy until everyone is Christian, with blue eyes and blonde hair. Only a hyperpartisan like Danno would take issue with something this asinine, as per usual. Thanksgiving is a secular holiday for most, and a religious holiday for some. Can't you just be happy with a 4 day weekend and a big dinner on Thursday? Why do you feel the need to police individuals civil liberties? You say you are for smaller government danno, but that is a lie. You want everyone to conform to your narrow view of the world.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It seems Danno won't be happy until everyone is Christian, with blue eyes and blonde hair. Only a hyperpartisan like Danno would take issue with something this asinine, as per usual. Thanksgiving is a secular holiday for most, and a religious holiday for some. Can't you just be happy with a 4 day weekend and a big dinner on Thursday? Why do you feel the need to police individuals civil liberties? You say you are for smaller government danno, but that is a lie. You want everyone to conform to your narrow view of the world.

Danno is no different than liberals. It is only a matter of what they wish to control in other people's lives. While I consider a liberal scolding a conservative to be ultimate hypocrisy.

Neither conservatioves NOR Liberals "want" a smaller government, except in the areas they want the government to have less control of. Neither "want" to eliminate the problem of illegal immigration, neqither "want" to solve the problems of funding our government, they just want to control different things with the tax code.

It is about time that AMERICANS tell them all to piss off.

Stop this inane whining "the President didn't say "god"