What did I do wrong?

[m60man 5]

It's a shame to say the least. This behavior is unacceptable, even here in the Philippines. Tampo, is usually the way the asawa will drive home her point. However more times then not, she will not share the point with you. It's for you to figure out or not! Tampo is the equivalent of the western silent treatment. You become invisible and are not heard or acknowledged. This alone can drive most men crazy. As it did me the first time or two I was the recipient. Chances are it is a reflection of a misunderstood English phrase (slang) or an affront to a cultural norm. Whether real or perceived makes know difference to the Filipina. She feels you have insulted, demeaned or injured her pride(face). This can be magnified if done in the presence of others (friend). Normally this can last 2 hours to a few days, then all is back to normal. At this time you may be tempted to inquire as to the reason. Don't go there, if it is something she wishes to share fine, if not leave it alone. Unless of course you are a gluten for punishment. I have found that the best way to combat this is to ignore it. I reverse the role when the opportunity presents itself. Male tampo seems to work well. This allows her to see what it feels like to not be acknowledged and tuned out. As time goes on and the communication and understanding of slang English, tone and expressions are better learned tampo will become less.

How having said that and having the benefit of living here in the Philippines for over 2 years. I can tell you that all filipina's are not created equal. I have heard and seen how jealous they can be. But I have never seen a jealous bone or gesture come from my wife. Sometimes it actually bothered me! But then I decided to be careful what I wish for. Wear the pants, be firm and fair. She looks to you for leadership, if you do not take this role then she will. Never raise your voice, never point or shake your finger at her, never call out loudly to her in a crowd, don't balik balik (repeat yourself) unless you are sure she did not hear you. Understand that Filipino time is different then western time. You and her will have to adjust to this. The sense of urgency is lost somewhere in the translation. If it is at all possible I would strongly suggest you live here prior to her immigrating. This allows for two things to transpire. First, you get a better understanding of the Filipino culture as well as your wife or girlfriend. She gets a better understanding of the western mindset and learns that you can be a leader and be trusted with her puso (heart). It is a very big step from a daughter or sister to a wife of a westerner. There are many things that you need to understand about how they think as well as their role in the marriage. Getting married here is not near as easy as it is in the western world, with good reason. There is no divorce here per-say and only the wealthy may or may not be granted an annulment. For these reason marriage is a very serious undertaking and not taken lightly. Many westerners get caught up in the beauty and sexuality of the Filipina, thus they are blinded to the cultural differences. Love does not cure all, perceived or actual, specially when cultures of such different backgrounds become joined. Filipina's have tendency to smile and agree even when they do not understand something. This is usually because they are shy (embarrassed) to admit to the lack of knowledge or understanding of the English language. I have caught my wife several times doing this. I advised her to never agree to, or with something that she does not understand, no exceptions!

Filipino customs and superstitions are another area that you should be familiar with. They take them very serious and can become very upset with infractions. A few examples, A worker finished his work and walked up to the window. I just slid opened the window to pay him. My wife came unglued, "no, you go out side and pay him". I did and then asked what was the difference? She told me if I hand money out the window all our money will disappear the same way. Ok.....whatever you say. One night I noticed that after her shower he was sitting on the couch falling asleep. I told her why don't you go to bed? Oh no, I not do that because my hair is wet! If I go to sleep with hair wet I wake up and can not see (blind). Ok, what ever you say. I cooked for two days in a row (western food no rice) she like everything I fixed. I noticed that at supper the second evening she seemed distracted and worried. I inquired as to why the gloom. She told me she was worried that she would not wake up in the morning because she had not eaten any rice for 2 days. Ok, whatever you say. The next morning a woke her up and informed her she was still alive. She smiled and said, Oh, I very lucky!......there are so many things that they believe. It's best not to scoff at them, just smile and say, Ok, whatever you say.

Marital mindset, a clash of cultures. Family is everything here, one for all, all for one. Expectations from the family of the Filipina, specially if married to a westerner can be overbearing. Immense pressure may be applied on her to help the family each and every month monetarily. This is a norm and can and will lead to problems for you down the road. This is something that you need to address with her from the start and be in control of. Let her be the go between in these matters, you stay out of it! She can in her own way handle these demands. You outline the rules as to what or how much you can and are willing to do. Your direct involvement will only complicate things for her and yourself. You own your car, you own your dog, but we as westerners do not think of owning our wife. Well that may not be true in their mind and culture. Example, We were being visited by a elderly (Lola) grandmother type and my wifes mother came over. She walk in and told me how much she missed her Lyn, I told her that Lyn misses her very much too. She responded, yes, but I think she miss you more. After her mother left the Lola began talking to Lyn. I could tell from the broken English and Lyn's face she was telling her about life. What she told her was this, Lyn, you are not the property of your mother anymore, you are the property of Rob now. You must abide with this. Later I asked my wife about what she had said and ask her if she really believed that. She smiled sheepishly dropped her eyes and said, yes it is true. I started to explain that I did not want to own her, but I also saw the disappointment in her eyes. She interpreted this to mean that I did not want her. It was then I learned to say, Ok, whatever you say, when it comes to some customs and superstitions. As you can see by these few examples there is a lot of room for misunderstanding. Educate yourself to the way of the Filipino culture and belief's. Doing so will save you countless hours of aggravation.

As for the OP. This is my advise. When she cools off, and she will if she really loves you. Set her down and tell that hurtful words, threats and destruction of property is not acceptable behavior in America or in the Philippines. You will not tolerate this behavior in the future. If she has a problem you are more the willing to sit down and listen to her and try to work it out. However, this is not a free pass to get your way or what you want. Let her know that you care for her and believe in the vows that you took. But you expect the same in return and will not accept less from her. You married her in good faith and want to give her a better life and opportunities she may not have had in the Philippines. These thing and the afore mentioned things really needed to be discussed prior to marriage. To many times the important things get brushed aside in the heat of passion and desire. You have made mistakes as many have before you and will after you. Good luck to you. You both have a lot to learn.

As for the post about having her deported. That's not going to happen. However,a smile and a trip to visit the family is not out of the question. You travel lite, go have a beer with her return ticket in your pocket and head back to America. Good as being deported, chances are she will not have the means to purchase a return ticket. Now this is only something that I would consider if all other remedies failed to change her behavior. Each relationship is different and only you can make that decision. But remember whatever you do, you have to be able to live with it. Let your conscious be your guide.

[gretchen_darren 67]

Please understand where I am coming on taking her back home, is a FINAL LAST ditch effort to try and save things. And no my fiancee knows her coming here has NO CONDITIONS. i love her completely. I have talked with my fiancee about what other girls have done, and how I would react if something like it happened to me. I believe Love Is ForEver.(note the capitals)

AS M60man pointed out, the Filipino culture has certain attributes which pre-date even american, spanish, mexican, or catholic cultural teaching. Just going home to her family WILL affect their relationship. Even if HE is not well respected in the family, her breaking things WILL be dealt with by the parents and extended family as well. It is possible she is a "rotten egg". But I believe the best, and think there are just issues which taking her home to her family will help if nothing else does. Presently, the OP needs help in getting his spouse to not be so abusive. It could be so was going through "tampo" and he pushed her on it. She could have been reacting angrily to him pushing for answers. Right now she is upset over something. She is becoming "americanized" while this is good in some ways. It is also bad. Her "americanization" is affecting their marriage negatively. Right now he is trying to fix things, and he needs a "reset" button. Taking her home to her family, or sending her home for a month or two will provide the "reset" button he needs.

Please note, although you may believe she cannot be deported, divorcing 30 days AFTER the 10 year green is issued is a HUGE RED Flag to ICE. NOT Attempting to deport her CAN affect the OP should he go for another marriage to a non US Citizen, he will go through much pain because they will suspect him of marriage fraud from this marriage. Her wanting to divorce him at this time is very, very bad to his future. I sincerely hope this does not happen. If they file for divorce in America, the superior court of the state handles the divorce. If that court SUSPECTS anything wrong in the marriage, the court MUST report and HAVE those suspicions investigated by the proper authorities BEFORE issuing a final divorce decree. The way she has been abusive, breaking things, saying she does not love him, plus asking for a divorce 30 days after her 10 year green card, would REQUIRE the court to report to USCIS for SUSPECTED marriage fraud. From what I have read, and from what I know of cases like this in Arizona, she would be deported with a LIFETIME ban. (and yes if you walked into the USEmbassy returning a green card saying you suspected your spouse of marriage fraud, they would take the green card right then. NOTE: if your claims are false, you are in very, very serious trouble.) Please understand IF I was in HIS shoes, I would be feeling extremely hurt by all of the events going on right now. if someone used me for a green card then wants support from me, I would be extremely angry at being used. I would be taking any and all legal measures possible. (and some people here know HOW MUCH I have done just to get my fiancee here so far. Imagine after all the trips, all the time, all the money, all the senators, congressmen, friends, family, pledging your life to her, you get your beloved here. You are told by your greatest treasure -- Luke 12:34 and Matthew 6:21 -- she no longer loves you and wants to leave, plus ACTS like it after getting her 10 year green card. How ANGRY would YOU be?)

right now, he is feeling very used and hurt. He just got her 10-year green card, He got her surgery for a problem with her leg, He has overlooked her rants and raves in the past. He stayed home with her to take care of her. He was ignored in his requests for silence while he was working from home on an important call. He is also being told she wants to leave him. She has been breaking things, and swinging at him. He may be part of the cause. No sides are completely innocent or completely guilty. But she is guilty of breaking things, of throwing things, of swinging at him hard enough to break a laptop, and telling him she no longer loves him, plus trying to do things on her own without him. She is showing him, she is no longer "his property". there are problems. She may be thinking he is bad for some reason, and can now just leave versus fixing the issue. She may also be thinking she can now divorce him and get half of what he owns. I really want them to fix their marriage. i want them to do well. It is for them to decide.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Besides the fact that this is one of the most misogynistic rants I've had the pleasure of reading on VJ, it's also a foolish idea.

Misogynistic? I don't see it. He isn't hating women, he is trying to bring one to the US and MARRY her, right? Kind of the opposite of hate.

What he is saying is... if his wife said she did not love him, and was willing to destroy things he had worked hard to pay for, he would send her packing. Whether it's "back to her village" or just out on the street... that is only a reflection of how far away from him he wants her and how much he is willing to spend to have her out of his life.

So let's put the shoe on the other foot... if your husband told you he didn't love you, and was destroying your stuff, would you just keep on loving him, and hope he changed?

[Tahoma 2,291]

messybrownhair did you a favor with her post. sometimes silence is golden.

Roy...I couldn't agree more...sometimes silence is golden...and Steph is amazingly polite. However, some people don't get the hint even if they are hit over the head with a 2x4.

It's amusing to see this type of thread pop up every so often. I get a chuckle out of the "instant experts" on Filipino culture who mistakenly believe their stereotyping and generalizing somehow passes for knowledge.

[rlogan 2,036]

About this being a cultural "tampo" thing we should "learn to live with"...

The fact is some cultural habits are good to adopt and improve our lives whereas other cultural habits are destructive and should be abandoned. Cannibalism, incest, child rape, slavery, torture, human sacrifice - we can go on down the list of ghastly things you could accept under the wrong-headed view of preserving culture without evaluating it on the merits. On the other side of it we have honesty, integrity, thrift, planning ahead, clear communication, working hard...these are cultural features worth preserving.

I do not buy into destructive behavior - either psychological or physical warfare. Marriage is about cooperation. Clear communication. So let's be clear: She's my property. She has to cooperate with whatever I want. My name is Mr. Big Boss.

Ha ha! I don't see how we can argue about who wears the pants. In the end you have to cooperate to make nookie.

[Tahoma 2,291]

About this being a cultural "tampo" thing we should "learn to live with"...

The fact is some cultural habits are good to adopt and improve our lives whereas other cultural habits are destructive and should be abandoned. Cannibalism, incest, child rape, slavery, torture, human sacrifice - we can go on down the list of ghastly things you could accept under the wrong-headed view of preserving culture without evaluating it on the merits. On the other side of it we have honesty, integrity, thrift, planning ahead, clear communication, working hard...these are cultural features worth preserving.

I do not buy into destructive behavior - either psychological or physical warfare. Marriage is about cooperation. Clear communication. So let's be clear: She's my property. She has to cooperate with whatever I want. My name is Mr. Big Boss.

Ha ha! I don't see how we can argue about who wears the pants. In the end you have to cooperate to make nookie.

^^^ +1.

Well-said, brother Robert.

[Messybrownhair 251]

Roy...I couldn't agree more...sometimes silence is golden...and Steph is amazingly polite. However, some people don't get the hint even if they are hit over the head with a 2x4.

It's amusing to see this type of thread pop up every so often. I get a chuckle out of the "instant experts" on Filipino culture who mistakenly believe their stereotyping and generalizing somehow passes for knowledge.

Thank you Tahoma and sunandmoon!

I am however, out of this conversation.

For what its worth though, I think its just an attitude problem not a green card/fraud issue.

[rlogan 2,036]

Please note, although you may believe she cannot be deported, divorcing 30 days AFTER the 10 year green is issued is a HUGE RED Flag to ICE. NOT Attempting to deport her CAN affect the OP should he go for another marriage to a non US Citizen, he will go through much pain because they will suspect him of marriage fraud from this marriage.

Oh dear. I've been ignoring things from ya buddy, but here we have a significant technical matter.

After she arrives on a fiance' visa you get married within the 90 days. Then she applies for Adjustment of Status, which results in a two-year green card. Permanent residency. She's already home free at this point and can get divorced but apply for the 10 year green card on her own. Citizenship too, should she want that. Unless there is substantial positive evidence of fraud there is nothing they can do, even with just the two year green card. She is in.

Before adjustment of status, however, you can take them back to the refund window at the Filipina store. That's why I buy them in bulk. By the pallet. You always have back-up that way and you aren't in a hurry to get your money back. I think the balik bayan box is the way to go on the refunds. If she's small, she might fit into two boxes. Figure three for budgeting purposes though.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

So let's put the shoe on the other foot... if your husband told you he didn't love you, and was destroying your stuff, would you just keep on loving him, and hope he changed?

I've got a really poor track record on this type of thing. I was actually in a relationship kind of like that for 26 years.

That being said - Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

So no, if the pattern had been going on for a while (more than two years and less than 26 ), I wouldn't be able to keep on loving him. And I wouldn't expect him to change.

I also wouldn't assume that I could send him home just because I was hurt. I would not assume that I could "send him back to the village" for the relatives to straighten out. And I wouldn't expect the US Government to play along with any games of vengeance I had in mind. It ain't their problem I made a mistake.

See, I don't see this kind of thing as just a problem of guys thinking they can import a spouse and ditch her when she doesn't work out. So that's not what sends my blood pressure up when I read this type of post.

I see lots of claims of culturism as excuses for behaviors of the foreign spouse. What about the US culture of divorce? What about the US microwave mentality where every thing has gotta be now and it's gotta be great and I'm p*ssed and want a refund if I don't get my fries super sized right now?

I think that's the problem with a lot of the "ship her home" talk. A whole bunch of us (including myself) have been married before. We've probably got a lot less tolerance for marital BS than we did the first time around. And there's boatloads of stats out there that prove second marriages have a lower success rate than first marriages.

So, I kind of think men (or women for that matter) who talk trash about shipping their foreign spouse home, is the same kind of person who wold throw their US spouses clothes out on the front lawn and light a match to them. It just sounds more shocking to hear someone talking about sending someone back to their home country. Like - that they believe this kind of power imbalance is OK.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

.........

I do not buy into destructive behavior - either psychological or physical warfare. Marriage is about cooperation. Clear communication. So let's be clear: She's my property. She has to cooperate with whatever I want. My name is Mr. Big Boss.

Ha ha! I don't see how we can argue about who wears the pants. In the end you have to cooperate to make nookie.

I'm assuming there's a whole bunch of facetiousness in here, so I'm going to run with that and say I like the post. :yes:

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

She is showing him, she is no longer "his property"

Darren, it's when you say stuff like this that I get all kind of.........I don't know. I feel like I should go run buy a veil and learn to milk cows and shred my voter registration card and stuff like that.

[rlogan 2,036]

I'm assuming there's a whole bunch of facetiousness in here

Yes, of course.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I've got a really poor track record on this type of thing. I was actually in a relationship kind of like that for 26 years.

That being said - Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

So no, if the pattern had been going on for a while (more than two years and less than 26 ), I wouldn't be able to keep on loving him. And I wouldn't expect him to change.

I also wouldn't assume that I could send him home just because I was hurt. I would not assume that I could "send him back to the village" for the relatives to straighten out. And I wouldn't expect the US Government to play along with any games of vengeance I had in mind. It ain't their problem I made a mistake.

See, I don't see this kind of thing as just a problem of guys thinking they can import a spouse and ditch her when she doesn't work out. So that's not what sends my blood pressure up when I read this type of post.

I see lots of claims of culturism as excuses for behaviors of the foreign spouse. What about the US culture of divorce? What about the US microwave mentality where every thing has gotta be now and it's gotta be great and I'm p*ssed and want a refund if I don't get my fries super sized right now?

I think that's the problem with a lot of the "ship her home" talk. A whole bunch of us (including myself) have been married before. We've probably got a lot less tolerance for marital BS than we did the first time around. And there's boatloads of stats out there that prove second marriages have a lower success rate than first marriages.

So, I kind of think men (or women for that matter) who talk trash about shipping their foreign spouse home, is the same kind of person who wold throw their US spouses clothes out on the front lawn and light a match to them. It just sounds more shocking to hear someone talking about sending someone back to their home country. Like - that they believe this kind of power imbalance is OK.

It's worth noting all the stink that was put up when IMBRA became law. There were lots of men angry over the new restrictions on how many times they could go through the process (K-1) if the first one didn't work out. I don't know why some guys here get defensive when this stuff is brought out in the open. The international dating market is and will continue to be a key factor in most of these international relationships, and it's an industry that caters to impulsive, I-want-it-now behavior, which leads to, I-want-a-refund when the product doesn't live up to the hype.

[gretchen_darren 67]

Let me be real here on some things.

We need more information from the OP. If you do not understand the Filipino culture, do not judge the culture or how the culture is run. We have some edumacated I-D-10-t-s on this thread. The big thing here is the culture. their culture is influenced by the tribal customs and the catholic church. And where the two overlap and are the same, the tribal customs have been continued.

By some surveys, only about 20% of Fil/Am marriage fail, compared to 50%-75% divorce rate for the common US/US marriage.-- http://www.jaderune.com/Why%20Filipinas.html

I still stand by my original post. Get the book the 5 love languages and learn the languages and each other. then listen to her, and work with her. If you put a stone in middle of a circle. Then ask each person to describe the same exact stone from where they are sitting. You will get a different description from each person. If you learn to appreciate the differences form the other person, you learn more about the stone and their thought processes. If you choose to argue and maintain your point of view, you lose out on the vastness of God's creation. this is the same in marriage. It is a marriage, but because of cultural influences, you will get a different description.

[miss191209 1]

maybe she is just having one of these moments...before the period, one can be really upset and angry and irritable for novalid reason...just keep bein supportive and things will get better