Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
scandal

Top 5 Nazis still at large

14 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2011/0512/Demjanjuk-conviction-Top-5-Nazis-still-at-large/Sandor-Kepiro

Demjanjuk conviction: Top 5 Nazis still at large

The Holocaust ended more than 60 years ago, but today’s conviction of John Demjanjuk for his work with the Nazis is a reminder that many former Nazis remain at large. The Simon Weisenthal Center, an organization that investigates and prosecutes Nazi war criminals, releases an annual list of the most-wanted Nazis still alive today. Here are the top five:

- Ariel Zirulnick, Correspondent

1. Sandor Kepiro

The Hungarian Nazi Sandor Kepiro, considered the most-wanted still-living Nazi criminal by the Weisenthal Center, stood trial earlier this week for his involvement in a massacre of civilians in Serbia in 1942.

According to the BBC, more than 1,200 Jewish, Serb, and Roma civilians were killed in three days by Hungarian forces. Mr. Kepiro has been charged with being directly responsible for the deaths of 36 Jews and Serbs – a charge he denies. He claims that he was the only one to refuse to use firearms and that he intervened in a corporal’s attempt to kill five people, saving their lives.

Kepiro was accused, but not convicted, in 1944 in his native Hungary. He fled to Argentina, where he was found by the Weisenthal Center. The current trial, which is being held in Hungary, was adjourned so that Kepiro’s health could be evaluated – the judge said he was concerned that the suspect was unable to understand what was happening in the courtroom.

2. Milivoj Ašner

Milivoj Ašner was the police chief in the Croatian town of Pozega when the town rounded up about 150 of its Jewish residents and put them on a train bound for a concentration camp. By the end of the war, the town’s Jewish population was entirely gone and all of the people deported were dead, the Guardian reports.

The Weisenthal Center says Mr. Asner is wanted for an “active role in persecution and deportation to death of hundreds of Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies.” Asner denies his involvement in the deportation, although he confirms he was police chief of the town at the time.

Asner fled to Austria after Croatia’s post-war government named him a war criminal, returning to a nearby town in the 1990s. He remained there quietly until investigations into his World War II past began and the Croatian government issued an order that he could not leave the country.

He fled back to Austria, where he remains today. No trial has been held because Austria has refused to extradite him to Croatia.

3. Klaas Carl Faber

Klaas Carl Faber, the Weisenthal Center’s third most-wanted surviving, at-large Nazi, served in the SS intelligence and security service and was a part of the execution squad that executed members of the Dutch resistance, opponents of the Nazis, and people caught hiding Jews, according to the Weisenthal Center. He also may have served in a transit camp for Jews being sent to concentration camps.

According to The Telegraph, he was sentenced to death in 1947 in The Netherlands, but he escaped from prison in 1952 and fled to Germany. He remains there today, protected by the German citizenship given to him by Adolf Hitler. His citizenship prevents him from being extradited, something that both Britain and The Netherlands have requested. A European arrest warrant was issued for him in November 2010, according to the BBC.

4. Gerhard Sommer

Gerhard Sommer was an SS officer who served in Italy and participated in the massacre of 560 civilians in an Italian village, part of the Nazi campaign against Italian resistance groups. An Italian military court convicted him, along with nine other Nazis, in abstentia in 2005, according to the Guardian. All 10 of the men, who received life sentences, were in Germany at the time. Sommer has been under investigation in Germany for years, but no charges have been issued.

5. Adam Nagorny

Adam Nagorny, a Ukrainian who agreed to work for the Nazis, served as an SS guard at the Treblinka I concentration camp. An investigation into his case was only opened in February, when witness testimonies for Demjanjuk’s trial revealed Mr. Nagorny’s identity, the Associated Press reports.

A former guard accused Nagorny of participating in the shooting of 3,000 inmates. Prosecutors are now reexamining witness testimonies to see if they can be used to issue charges against him. He admits to having served in an SS camp. He is now living in Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, no statute of limitations on being a genocidal dickhead?

In a word, no.

Let's put this in a current perspective, shall we?

A certain Osama Bin Ladin was directly responsible for the murder in cold blood of over 3,000 Americans on Sept 11 2001.

By directly, we mean he orchestrated and plotted the murders, he did not personally carry them out.

What did we do? Put a 'dead or alive' bounty on his head and handed the sorry mofucker his head on a platter. Deservedly so.

The #5 living Nazi on this list (#5, mind you, never mind #1- #4) is believed to have personally shot 3,000 inmates at Treblinka concentration camp. Yet he lives freely in Germany, calmly going about his business. No need for elaborate hideouts in Adabadabadab Pakistan, no couriers and radio silence for this dude, he lives out in the open, 66 years after committing his crimes. I say it's time for a Seal 6 squad to put a bullet in his left eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a word, no.

Let's put this in a current perspective, shall we?

A certain Osama Bin Ladin was directly responsible for the murder in cold blood of over 3,000 Americans on Sept 11 2001.

By directly, we mean he orchestrated and plotted the murders, he did not personally carry them out.

What did we do? Put a 'dead or alive' bounty on his head and handed the sorry mofucker his head on a platter. Deservedly so.

The #5 living Nazi on this list (#5, mind you, never mind #1- #4) is believed to have personally shot 3,000 inmates at Treblinka concentration camp. Yet he lives freely in Germany, calmly going about his business. No need for elaborate hideouts in Adabadabadab Pakistan, no couriers and radio silence for this dude, he lives out in the open, 66 years after committing his crimes. I say it's time for a Seal 6 squad to put a bullet in his left eye.

Why doesn't Israel do it? Serious question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't Israel do it? Serious question.

Serious answer?

1. Israel went and got Eichmann, so they clearly have shown the chops.

2. Starting in 1946, the Allies after the War agreed that Nazi war crimes would be prosecuted in open court and not accounted for vigilante style. The process of the Nuremburg trials let a lot of nasty characters off the hook (that's the essence of due process and trials), but it did mark a stark distinction between civilized humanity and barbaric Nazism. That idea has been respected ever since - we generally don't shoot Nazis in dark alleys, we haul them before courts. Israel by and large respects that approach.

3. Israel has diplomatic relations with Germany and Holocaust survivors and their estates continue to receive reparation payments. I'm sure that would be jeopardized if Mossad hunted down Nazis in Germany as Seal 6 just did in Pakistan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3. Israel has diplomatic relations with Germany and Holocaust survivors and their estates continue to receive reparation payments. I'm sure that would be jeopardized if Mossad hunted down Nazis in Germany as Seal 6 just did in Pakistan.

That sounds fair. Let these really old people live in exchange for money and jobs for diplomats :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only in Germany can a foreigner be convicted of a crime on complete here-say while Germany hides it's ethnic German NAZI rats from prosecution. That old man was cleared in Israel, he was a POW, Germany never did request his files from Russia like the defense asked, and that trial was comparable to Mickey mouse convicting Pluto for being a NAZI. It was a complete sham from the get go.

And who are the Germans to convict a foreigner for their crimes ? Let's see shall we ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110511/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_netherlands_nazi;_ylt=AguwxkCtLx67pblZidU_wE90bBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTMxOTZhYjFvBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTExL2V1X2dlcm1hbnlfbmV0aGVybGFuZHNfbmF6aQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDeW5fcGFnaW5hdGVfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNuYXppY29udmljdGU-

Nazi convict escapes extradition to Netherlands

By JUERGEN BAETZ, Associated Press – Wed May 11, 10:14 am ET

BERLIN – An 88-year-old German man considered one of the most prominent Nazi war crimes suspects alive won't be extradited to the Netherlands and can continue to live in freedom, German officials said Wednesday.

Klaas Carel Faber was convicted in 1947 of complicity in 22 murders and for aiding the Netherlands' Nazi occupiers during World War II. He was handed a death sentence that was later commuted to life in prison, according to Dutch prosecutors. But in 1952 he escaped and fled to Germany where he has lived in freedom ever since despite several attempts to try or extradite him.

The latest, and presumably last, attempt failed this week, "basically putting an end to the case," Munich prosecutor Alfons Obermeier said.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center last year elevated Faber to No. 3 on its "most wanted" list as other suspects had passed away.

"This is outrageous. There is no ambiguity: This the worst possible decision, which only helps a convicted multiple murder to escape justice," said the center's chief Nazi hunter, Efraim Zuroff.

Faber objected to being extradited, and the Dutch request cannot be granted as his consent is mandatory due to his German citizenship, Ingolstadt court spokesman Jochen Boesl said.

Obermeier added that, if the Netherlands asked for Faber to serve his sentence in Germany, that also could not be granted because of earlier court rulings.

The prosecutor's office reviewed Faber's case in August at the request of German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, but concluded he could not be prosecuted without new evidence.

The Dutch government last year issued a European arrest warrant for Faber. Prosecutors there declined to comment Wednesday pending the official notification by German authorities.

According to the Wiesenthal center, Faber volunteered for Hitler's SS, a paramilitary organization loyal to Nazi ideology, during the German occupation of the Netherlands in the 1940s. He worked for the death squad code named "Silbertanne," or "Silver Fir," which carried out killings of resistance members, Nazi opponents, and people who hid Jews.

"To the best of our knowledge, Faber remains totally unrepentant," Zuroff said.

Dutch prosecutors said Faber was convicted for killings in three different Dutch cities in 1944-1945, including six at the Westerbork transit camp, where thousands of Dutch Jews, including Anne Frank, were held before being sent to labor camps or death camps in the East.

Groups of Holocaust survivors called the failure to bring him to justice "a disgraceful moral offense."

"The victims of the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands whose terrible fate was encapsulated in the eloquent testimony of Anne Frank have been betrayed and the demands of justice have been scorned," said Elan Steinberg, deputy chief of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants.

Faber fathered three children in Germany and lives in the Bavarian city of Ingolstadt, where he worked for automaker Audi until he retired.

Independently, another decades-old case of a Nazi suspect is winding up in Germany. The 91-year-old retired Ohio autoworker John Demjanjuk is charged at a Munich court with 28,060 counts of accessory to murder on accusations he agreed to serve as a guard at the Sobibor camp after being captured by the Nazis.

He denies the charges. A verdict may come on Thursday.

Germany's NAZI rats got off scott free. They did sentences that were two years or less, and after they were released they were handed a gravy jobs...usually a government/civil service job. Germany passed on it's own ethnic German NAZI rats and looked for scape goats abroad.

Every NAZI rat deserves nothing short of death...same with every Commie rat that was responsible for murder. But to convict that old man on nothing more than "he said - she said" when they turned down records from Russia that would have proven his innocence while they hide their own German NAZI rats is pure utter bs. Shame on Germany !

Edited by Why_Me

sigbet.jpg

"I want to take this opportunity to mention how thankful I am for an Obama re-election. The choice was clear. We cannot live in a country that treats homosexuals and women as second class citizens. Homosexuals deserve all of the rights and benefits of marriage that heterosexuals receive. Women deserve to be treated with respect and their salaries should not depend on their gender, but their quality of work. I am also thankful that the great, progressive state of California once again voted for the correct President. America is moving forward, and the direction is a positive one."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're comparing an ideology (Nazism) that led to the extermination of millions of Jews to ethnicity? Are you on crack?

I would say the person on crack is the one who decided to jump in this thread without stating the facts.

Stalin and his Commie butcherer's were responsible for over 20,000,000+ deaths. Start counting and let me know when you get to 10 million. Then count off another 10 million and you have the low ball estimate of deaths attributed to the Kremlin genocidal machine.

btw it wasn't just Jews that got whacked at those camps. My wife's grandmother spent close to two years in a NAZI camp and saw her mother, brother, and sisters get machine gunned two days before the Red Army entered. And no my wifes mothers family was not Jewish. Gypsy's,Slavs, Jews, Gay's, etc... all paid the price in those camps. Lucky for her her fathers great uncle and his wife and children got deported to Russia Far East (Magadan) where only a son survived. That's a family of five, with one lucky one. Their crime ? They were Latvian and he fought against the Commies.

On the other hand I know Estonians and Lithuanians who migrated to the states who lost most of their family to the Commies. The Commies would come in, shoot any males that were of military age, rape the women, and if the women were lucky enough they got left alone afterwards and not deported on cattle cars in the middle of winter on their way to Siberia seeing how it meant almost a sure death. This was the second time the Commies invaded the Baltics...the first was in 1939 when the first wave of deportations started.

The Commies were every bit as evil as the NAZI's. No better and no worse. You don't butcher over 20,000,000 people and then use ideology as a defense. It doesn't work that way.


sigbet.jpg

"I want to take this opportunity to mention how thankful I am for an Obama re-election. The choice was clear. We cannot live in a country that treats homosexuals and women as second class citizens. Homosexuals deserve all of the rights and benefits of marriage that heterosexuals receive. Women deserve to be treated with respect and their salaries should not depend on their gender, but their quality of work. I am also thankful that the great, progressive state of California once again voted for the correct President. America is moving forward, and the direction is a positive one."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember the figures, >90% of the Jews in the Baltic states were murdered. My ex-mother-in-law, of blessed memory, said that the Ukrainian and Lithuanian guards in the camps were even more evil and brutal than the Germans.

The Commies were every bit as evil as the NAZI's.
This is very true, sigh man.

06-04-2007 = TSC stamps postal return-receipt for I-129f.

06-11-2007 = NOA1 date (unknown to me).

07-20-2007 = Phoned Immigration Officer; got WAC#; where's NOA1?

09-25-2007 = Touch (first-ever).

09-28-2007 = NOA1, 23 days after their 45-day promise to send it (grrrr).

10-20 & 11-14-2007 = Phoned ImmOffs; "still pending."

12-11-2007 = 180 days; file is "between workstations, may be early Jan."; touches 12/11 & 12/12.

12-18-2007 = Call; file is with Division 9 ofcr. (bckgrnd check); e-prompt to shake it; touch.

12-19-2007 = NOA2 by e-mail & web, dated 12-18-07 (187 days; 201 per VJ); in mail 12/24/07.

01-09-2008 = File from USCIS to NVC, 1-4-08; NVC creates file, 1/15/08; to consulate 1/16/08.

01-23-2008 = Consulate gets file; outdated Packet 4 mailed to fiancee 1/27/08; rec'd 3/3/08.

04-29-2008 = Fiancee's 4-min. consular interview, 8:30 a.m.; much evidence brought but not allowed to be presented (consul: "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!").

05-05-2008 = Infuriating $12 call to non-English-speaking consulate appointment-setter.

05-06-2008 = Better $12 call to English-speaker; "joint" interview date 6/30/08 (my selection).

06-30-2008 = Stokes Interrogations w/Ecuadorian (not USC); "wait 2 weeks; we'll mail her."

07-2008 = Daily calls to DOS: "currently processing"; 8/05 = Phoned consulate, got Section Chief; wrote him.

08-07-08 = E-mail from consulate, promising to issue visa "as soon as we get her passport" (on 8/12, per DHL).

08-27-08 = Phoned consulate (they "couldn't find" our file); visa DHL'd 8/28; in hand 9/1; through POE on 10/9 with NO hassles(!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean, your sweeping generalization below should be regarded as factual?

You're trying to pave moral equivalence between ethnic cleansing and war crimes. This thread was about going after those criminals who participated in the systemic extermination of the Jews, who were not "enemies of the state (Germany)" beyond the Nazi's declaring them as such based on their ethnicity. The Nazis were not an ethnic group. They made their war crimes about ethnicity, while war crimes in general happen in a time of war. To even suggest that they are morally equivalent is repugnant. It diminishes the atrocities against the Jews as an ethnic group.

I find your post morally repugnant. The NAZI's went after more than just Jews. They butchered Slavs for the fact they looked down on them as inhuman...they did the same with the Gypsy's. The Slavs they didn't butcher were the ones they needed to butcher other Slavs. Croats and the Ustaze comes to mind in that regard.

I'm not making these post to belittle what happened to the Jews in Europe, I'm making these post to show that both sides were genocidal maniacs. Communism killed a lot more people than Fascism, but only because Hitler didn't have the time to complete the job. Hitler and Stalin were equal evils. Again you do not butcher over 20,000,000 people and then point the finger at the other guy and say he's more evil because he was a bit more methodical in how he butchered his millions. It doesn't work that way. You can try and put an ideological and/or ethnic slant on it but dead is dead.

The NAZI's get more credit for the fact they were the enemy. The USSR was our allies at the time so the West looked the other way even though leaders like Churchill and Roosevelt knew what was going on in the USSR occupied lands. They knew all about Katyn Forest Massacre yet they lied about it through their teeth during the Nuremberg trials. And when the Commies started building the Berlin Wall...then all of a sudden the truth came out. With the Allies it was "the end justify's the means" ...that and we needed Russia's help at the time.

Germany,the US,Canada, and UK all hid NAZI war criminals. Russia and Israel hid or gave safe haven to Commie war criminals.

NAZI war criminals were no worse and no better than Commie war criminals. Both were inhuman murdering butchers who deserved nothing less than a bullet in the back of the head. Both killed millions. But we in the West don't see John Wayne fighting the Russians and protecting the innocent. We only see us fighting the Germans hence the reason so many people in the US are completely oblivious as to what went on in Eastern Europe during those times.

You can spin this post or thread any way you want it but it all comes down to millions of people murdered by NAZI's and Commies.

Edited by Why_Me

sigbet.jpg

"I want to take this opportunity to mention how thankful I am for an Obama re-election. The choice was clear. We cannot live in a country that treats homosexuals and women as second class citizens. Homosexuals deserve all of the rights and benefits of marriage that heterosexuals receive. Women deserve to be treated with respect and their salaries should not depend on their gender, but their quality of work. I am also thankful that the great, progressive state of California once again voted for the correct President. America is moving forward, and the direction is a positive one."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only in Germany can a foreigner be convicted of a crime on complete here-say while Germany hides it's ethnic German NAZI rats from prosecution. That old man was cleared in Israel, he was a POW, Germany never did request his files from Russia like the defense asked, and that trial was comparable to Mickey mouse convicting Pluto for being a NAZI. It was a complete sham from the get go.

And who are the Germans to convict a foreigner for their crimes ? Let's see shall we ?

Germany's NAZI rats got off scott free. They did sentences that were two years or less, and after they were released they were handed a gravy jobs...usually a government/civil service job. Germany passed on it's own ethnic German NAZI rats and looked for scape goats abroad.

Every NAZI rat deserves nothing short of death...same with every Commie rat that was responsible for murder. But to convict that old man on nothing more than "he said - she said" when they turned down records from Russia that would have proven his innocence while they hide their own German NAZI rats is pure utter bs. Shame on Germany !

I have no love of the Nazis. Especially since my Belorussian relatives suffered so much during the Nazi occupation of Belorussia in WWII.

However, I don't feel comfortable with this "conviction" of this supposed lone low level Ukrainian guard on such flimsy evidence by Germany in particular. If Germany wishes to publicly atone for their sins...they can do better than this. This flimsy conviction is just posturing by Germany using a foreign (Ukrainian) stooge.


"Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: Those who should get in, get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave."

"...for the system to be credible, people actually have to be deported at the end of the process."

US Congresswoman Barbara Jordan (D-TX)

Testimony to the House Immigration Subcommittee, February 24, 1995

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no love of the Nazis. Especially since my Belorussian relatives suffered so much during the Nazi occupation of Belorussia in WWII.

However, I don't feel comfortable with this "conviction" of this supposed lone low level Ukrainian guard on such flimsy evidence by Germany in particular. If Germany wishes to publicly atone for their sins...they can do better than this. This flimsy conviction is just posturing by Germany using a foreign (Ukrainian) stooge.

Germany should be ashamed of itself in regards to trying that old man. The US and UK wanted a "strong West Germany" so they fixed paperwork on a ####### load of NAZI's giving them false documents. Some came to the US, Canada, and UK, but most stayed in Germany. They knew the NAZI's were the most anti Commie out of the lot so they figured those would be the people to have in positions of authority. Everyone knew this but they all chose to bury their heads in the sand. They saw the Commies as the bigger threat after the war. Those NAZI rats got to live full lives and never received justice due to them. It's sickening if you ask me.

It was the same with the Commie rats. Russia and Israel took them in when Gorby finally caved in and all the Commie rats scurried like ####### roaches.


sigbet.jpg

"I want to take this opportunity to mention how thankful I am for an Obama re-election. The choice was clear. We cannot live in a country that treats homosexuals and women as second class citizens. Homosexuals deserve all of the rights and benefits of marriage that heterosexuals receive. Women deserve to be treated with respect and their salaries should not depend on their gender, but their quality of work. I am also thankful that the great, progressive state of California once again voted for the correct President. America is moving forward, and the direction is a positive one."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thread closed for review

After reading over this thread and reading all of the links I find certain elements of it quite disturbing. The topic is the list of remaining most wanted Nazi war criminals and the problems involved in gaining convictions and extraditions.

The introduced topic is that one of the ethnically identified victims of Nazism is themselves equally repugnant as this ethnic group participated in similar war crimes during Communism.

What is distressing is the stated position that because certain individuals of one ethnic background were responsible for other criminal activities, then all members of that ethnic background are thereby complicit in the same crimes. This is the same as saying since certain Nazi criminals were Catholics, all Catholics were implicated in the activities of these individual Nazis. Black and white statements such as this do more to harm the truth than to reveal it, and within the context of this discussion comes across as rather blatant racism.

I am going to keep this thread closed as it has developed a direction that is not in compliance with TOS and I will be removing certain posts.

This in no way diminishes the horror of the many crimes committed against many people during the Nazi and the Communist regimes. All crimes against humanity, regardless of the perpetrators, are abhorrent and there is no need to debate that crime a is worse than crime b or vice versa. There is no winner in that discussion and many losers.

Edited by Kathryn41

“...Isn't it splendid to think of all the things there are to find out about? It just makes me feel glad to be alive--it's such an interesting world. It wouldn't be half so interesting if we knew all about everything, would it? There'd be no scope for imagination then, would there?”

. Lucy Maude Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables

5892822976_477b1a77f7_z.jpg

Another Member of the VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
- Back to Top -


Important Disclaimer: Please read carefully the Visajourney.com Terms of Service. If you do not agree to the Terms of Service you should not access or view any page (including this page) on VisaJourney.com. Answers and comments provided on Visajourney.com Forums are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Visajourney.com does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. VisaJourney.com does not condone immigration fraud in any way, shape or manner. VisaJourney.com recommends that if any member or user knows directly of someone involved in fraudulent or illegal activity, that they report such activity directly to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You can contact ICE via email at Immigration.Reply@dhs.gov or you can telephone ICE at 1-866-347-2423. All reported threads/posts containing reference to immigration fraud or illegal activities will be removed from this board. If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by contacting us here with a url link to that content. Thank you.
×