Increase in RFE issuance?

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Well, I know what I filed, it was an I29F, for my fiance' and I received the RFE for this petition asking for 2 pages worth of additional documentation, including the financial information I stated. I don't want to hijack this thread, I am simply stating that I was not misleading anyone, it may be odd, but, it is what I received and what I was asked to provide. I was also supposed to provide school transcripts showing where my fiance' learned English, despite the numerous emails and IM conversations I had previously provided which were all in English...... I am still in the initial application stage, awaiting an NOA2, currently returned my first RFE.

Many would say it's odd, but I have plenty of 1st hand experience dealing with immigration offices on behalf of others since the mid 90s up to now (I am not a lawyer though but I deal with lawyers several times a month, and I do all what I do on a volunteer basis; and not all my experience is K1 though now I am in a K1 of my own, waiting for months on the NOA2) and this does not surprise me. I have first hand experience with even more absurd (Kafka would be proud) RFEs, rulings and other. They can ask for about anything they feel like.

As many others here, I would like to send a few RFEs of my own to them. But keep in mind that we do not have control here and the most efficient/effective way of dealing with this is to send them what they want, as soon as possible; second order of business is to come to the forum and post our experience, it does help others. Criticizing does not help. We are here because we are all in the same boat, aren't we? When someone posts a 'Received NOA2' or 'interview scheduled' we all win, especially the couple that got the notice.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

We received our RFE email this morning. In defense of all those who just sent in the basics, as we did, the USCIS website is not very clear and they seemed only to request the forms.

Unfortunately I didn't find this website before I sent in our package, I wished I had as it definately makes the process much easier to understand. After finding the guides here and reading the posts I was expecting an RFE and am prepared.

And IMO it's not a "very easy" process, it's time consuming and can even be complicated for some.

You followed the instructions on the website for the needed forms, but you didn't read the form instructions in detail. Proof of meeting within the past two years? That's covered in the form instructions. Proof that the petitioner is a US citizen? Covered in the instructions. Passport style photos? Covered in the instructions. Letters of intent? Covered in the instructions.

I don't know if any of these thing were what you got an RFE for, but the basic requirements, which is virtually everything that's listed in the VJ guides, are covered by the various form instructions. You could submit a petition and have it approved without ever finding VJ or reading the VJ guides just by carefully reading the form instructions, and submitting everything that's requested.

That said, including everything that's mentioned in the form instructions and VJ guides does not guarantee you won't get an RFE, which leads me to...

I would say: That any Senior Member with years of experience would say this is odd for a 129-F Application.

Maybe Pushbrk and Jim will read this thread. You are not changing the subject though or the thread. It is up to the OP.

Yes, it's strange indeed. I've seen a few people posting that they've gotten RFE's for stuff that is not required by any statute or DHS policy for USCIS to adjudicate a petition. Frankly, I have no idea what's been going on there. brokenfamily posted an excerpt from a DHS progress report from the American Immigration Council that summed up a lot of the complaints about the RFE process, and what those RFE's frequently ask for. That excerpt leads me to believe that many immigration lawyers are just as confused by some of these RFE's as we are.

I can only venture a guess as to what's going on. My guess is that USCIS service centers are getting a little fed up with having to deal with so many returned petitions from US consulates, and they've decided to be proactive about preventing them. They're beginning to ask for proof of stuff that would normally only needed to be proven at the consulate stage.

The thing is that a consulate can't just return a petition to USCIS and say they didn't feel like issuing a visa in this case. An approved petition is a presumption of eligibility, and it's up to the consulate to prove that the beneficiary isn't eligible. They can't just say "Hey, the petitioner was recently divorced so we think it's a sham relationship". USCIS' response would be that they knew the petitioner was recently divorced because they saw his or her divorce decree, and they approved the petition anyway. The consulate can't revoke the approval of the petition, and as long as there's an approved petition then the beneficiary is technically eligible to apply for a visa. The only way the consulate can prevent the beneficiary from coming back repeatedly and applying for visas based on the same petition is for the consulate to send the petition back to USCIS with a recommendation that the approval be revoked. In order to do this they have to come up with a reason why the beneficiary isn't eligible to receive a visa, and it has to be a reason USCIS didn't know about when the petition was approved. The result at many consulates, especially those in countries with a high level of visa fraud, are trumped up allegations based on things for which there are no statutory requirements, but which the consulate believes are valid discretionary reasons to deny a visa and recommend the petition approval be revoked.

I think USCIS might be trying to prevent some of these petitions from being returned by the consulate by asking the petitioner to provide evidence that the consulate might otherwise use as an excuse for denying the visa. If USCIS gets a lot of returned petitions citing "beneficiary submitted no evidence that petitioner funded their trips to visit the beneficiary themselves", even though the consulate never actually asked the beneficiary to provide this evidence, then USCIS could stop those petitions from being returned by issuing an RFE for this evidence before approving the petition. If USCIS has seen the evidence, and it's included in the petition package sent to the consulate, then the consulate can't use the lack of that evidence as an excuse to deny the visa and return the petition.

The only other viable reason for these bizarre RFE's is that USCIS has hired new adjudicators and failed to train them properly.

[JanaWithoutKhodor 3]

Many would say it's odd, but I have plenty of 1st hand experience dealing with immigration offices on behalf of others since the mid 90s up to now (I am not a lawyer though but I deal with lawyers several times a month, and I do all what I do on a volunteer basis; and not all my experience is K1 though now I am in a K1 of my own, waiting for months on the NOA2) and this does not surprise me. I have first hand experience with even more absurd (Kafka would be proud) RFEs, rulings and other. They can ask for about anything they feel like.

As many others here, I would like to send a few RFEs of my own to them. But keep in mind that we do not have control here and the most efficient/effective way of dealing with this is to send them what they want, as soon as possible; second order of business is to come to the forum and post our experience, it does help others. Criticizing does not help. We are here because we are all in the same boat, aren't we? When someone posts a 'Received NOA2' or 'interview scheduled' we all win, especially the couple that got the notice.

I have never had any experience which is why I came to this board. I have found most of the members here to be very helpful. You are right, they can ask for whatever they want and I will give it to them. I am hoping by sharing my experience I am helping people, I am not trying to scare anyone, I keep pointing out this is not normal, but, it CAN happen. You are right, whenever anyone gets a NOA2, it is a great experience and moment for all of us.....

[JanaWithoutKhodor 3]

You followed the instructions on the website for the needed forms, but you didn't read the form instructions in detail. Proof of meeting within the past two years? That's covered in the form instructions. Proof that the petitioner is a US citizen? Covered in the instructions. Passport style photos? Covered in the instructions. Letters of intent? Covered in the instructions.

I don't know if any of these thing were what you got an RFE for, but the basic requirements, which is virtually everything that's listed in the VJ guides, are covered by the various form instructions. You could submit a petition and have it approved without ever finding VJ or reading the VJ guides just by carefully reading the form instructions, and submitting everything that's requested.

That said, including everything that's mentioned in the form instructions and VJ guides does not guarantee you won't get an RFE, which leads me to...

Yes, it's strange indeed. I've seen a few people posting that they've gotten RFE's for stuff that is not required by any statute or DHS policy for USCIS to adjudicate a petition. Frankly, I have no idea what's been going on there. brokenfamily posted an excerpt from a DHS progress report from the American Immigration Council that summed up a lot of the complaints about the RFE process, and what those RFE's frequently ask for. That excerpt leads me to believe that many immigration lawyers are just as confused by some of these RFE's as we are.

I can only venture a guess as to what's going on. My guess is that USCIS service centers are getting a little fed up with having to deal with so many returned petitions from US consulates, and they've decided to be proactive about preventing them. They're beginning to ask for proof of stuff that would normally only needed to be proven at the consulate stage.

The thing is that a consulate can't just return a petition to USCIS and say they didn't feel like issuing a visa in this case. An approved petition is a presumption of eligibility, and it's up to the consulate to prove that the beneficiary isn't eligible. They can't just say "Hey, the petitioner was recently divorced so we think it's a sham relationship". USCIS' response would be that they knew the petitioner was recently divorced because they saw his or her divorce decree, and they approved the petition anyway. The consulate can't revoke the approval of the petition, and as long as there's an approved petition then the beneficiary is technically eligible to apply for a visa. The only way the consulate can prevent the beneficiary from coming back repeatedly and applying for visas based on the same petition is for the consulate to send the petition back to USCIS with a recommendation that the approval be revoked. In order to do this they have to come up with a reason why the beneficiary isn't eligible to receive a visa, and it has to be a reason USCIS didn't know about when the petition was approved. The result at many consulates, especially those in countries with a high level of visa fraud, are trumped up allegations based on things for which there are no statutory requirements, but which the consulate believes are valid discretionary reasons to deny a visa and recommend the petition approval be revoked.

I think USCIS might be trying to prevent some of these petitions from being returned by the consulate by asking the petitioner to provide evidence that the consulate might otherwise use as an excuse for denying the visa. If USCIS gets a lot of returned petitions citing "beneficiary submitted no evidence that petitioner funded their trips to visit the beneficiary themselves", even though the consulate never actually asked the beneficiary to provide this evidence, then USCIS could stop those petitions from being returned by issuing an RFE for this evidence before approving the petition. If USCIS has seen the evidence, and it's included in the petition package sent to the consulate, then the consulate can't use the lack of that evidence as an excuse to deny the visa and return the petition.

The only other viable reason for these bizarre RFE's is that USCIS has hired new adjudicators and failed to train them properly.

Well, if that is what they are doing, I guess it makes sense to me. I know the Middle East is a high fraud area, I never expected smooth sailing. I think the OP is out of the VSC, which seems to run a little slower than the CSC. These boards can be very beneficial for obtaining information, but, as with anywhere, don't rely on it as legal advice. Hell, it seems even some of the attorneys some people on this board have used shouldn't be relied up on for legal advice:)

Again, what you are saying makes a little bit of sense for how some of the consulates are trying to deal with the "problems" ahead of time. I sent what I had and hopefully my 100% Norwegian background is now cleared for not having any relation to my 100% Lebanese fiance', good humor;)

[fritzie26 0]

my fiance and i also received an RFE just yesterday, VSC mailed it last friday, they wanted to know my fiance's address and his work for the last 5 years....

[Tanoushka 7]

Don't worry Monyfer. it's coming!

If you look at my timeline or my signature, you'll see that we had a RFE too.

It took them about 3 weeks to approve the petition after acknowledging receipt of our RFE response.

Good luck!

Edited May 11, 2011 by Tanoushka

[Andie 147]

ha yea think they got that... wouldn't it be great if we were all perfect ... the beauty of hindsight

[Andie 147]

Monyfer says they have been asked for photos which were already sent.

Other posts have said similar things suggesting that the petitioners submissions were complete and supporting documents have been mislaid. Or do you think USCIS is infallible?

Edited May 11, 2011 by Andie

[Andie 147]

Ha yea I think they got that... the issue is that when you know you have sent all the info required and they request something that you know you have already sent, such as photos, it is concerning. There have been a few similar postings lately, and it becomes very confusing for petitioners. Or do you think USCIS is infallible?

[Andie 147]

ha.. yea think they got that. I have read several postings recently suggesting that petitioners sent all documents required and received an RFE requesting info already sent. Confusing when you know you have sent everything and are asked for some of the documents/photos again. Unless you think that USCIS are infallible?

[T&R 3]

We also got an RFE too. After sending the outdated I-29F and getting the package rejected by USCIS, and then sending it back to them, we waited 5 months and got a RFE because my fiancé forgot to answer a question on the I29F form. And since they are changed our status to reviewing our case, no news since then....

This process is really stressful....but let's be patient

[gretchen_darren 67]

RFE, RFE, RFE... The people at USCIS handle hundreds of applications a day. if something is not done right, not "fitting" to the rest of the group they work on, or just "hits" a flag, they issue an RFE. It can be for something you already filed, or something you missed, could be for age, location, religion, language, work, proof, or it could be someone filed a motion against you. (people can file a motion saying you are not fit, too old, not eligible, not financially stable, sham relationship, etc. to which when they process your application, the adjudicator has to be able to answer in your application or RFE for the answer.)

It could be they just want to issue an RFE for a check on the application. An audit of the process. These people handle application from an "in basket" to an "out basket". If someone is approving a lot of applications without and RFE, it may send up "red flags" to supervisors the person is not checking applications thoroughly. Or a supervisor, may ask the adjudicator to get a form not in the packet, just to verify the adjudicator is checking the packets.

per the conversation which is sticky to this room, RFE's go to the top of the line. No waiting in line. The application with an RFE gets checked and either a further RFE, or approved asap. With a 5% denial rate (probably THE lowest in the visa applications centers), there is always a lot of focus on the fiance/spousal visa process.

All we do is make sure we answer so we can get on with the rest of the process. there are still more hurdles where denial CAN happen. this is just the first major hurdle.

[C Med 14]

This is incorrect and hurtful. I double and triple checked my package against the guides and stickies here, posted questions, researched everything.

I got an RFE requesting a passport photo of myself, even though I had sent the two requested with the original petition. They must have lost the first round of photos.

Also, as Martin and Tricia posted, they got an RFE for a birth certificate even though they sent it with the original package. VSC lost it.

These RFEs are not our fault, which makes me suspicious VSC is just doing anything to buy time. Please do not post your incorrect judgments.

I have been noticing this on the RFE thread. A lot of people are saying that they are being asked to submit documents that they submitted with the petition. That's scary! I looked mine over several times and even had an attorney look it over to make sure everything was there, signed, etc. I delayed sending my packet out for a whole month just so I could have it looked over...all to avoid an RFE, and look at that, I may get one anyway.

I'm sorry you've been waiting so long. I hope you receive your NOA2 soon.

[jameugiekaxavilon 25]

I had an RFE and we waited like one month to get approve!!

[xena@anthony 0]

RFE :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: yesterday found out about it .....