Abolish fiancee visas

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Did someone get dumped?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Perhaps you are projecting too much of your experience onto the matter without realizing not everyone does a K1 for the reasons you assume.

SOme people are separated due to military duty, some people have religious considerations.

SOme countries have requirements for marriage which makes it much more simpler to marry State-side.

Some people just want to be married in the Good ole USA for what ever reason.

THe real question should be, "is there a problem with the K1 type visa, ..high failure rate? High fraud?

Other than your opinion is there any other reason to do away with the K1?

If there is, I might agree, but I am not aware of any overwhelming reason to not allow it.

In a practical "let me give you some advice" way, your statements are true. In a "let's make a law that applies to everyone" way, they are wrong.

US citizens should be able to meet and marry anyone they want from anywhere in the world. Period. The government owes it to the rest of us to assure that your fiancee is no threat to the country and that neither you or she will spnge off the rest of us. We can do that easily. Drop the affidavit of support altogether (there is no such thing if you marry the girl next door) and simply disqualify any fiancee/wife AND the sponsoring US citizen AND any resulting family from any means based assistance for 10 years after the green card is issued. The affidavit is BS anyway, especially in a recession. You have a job today, so what?

the government does not need to get involved in relationships, family finances and such (as if they have any control over their own finances, they are going to tell ME how to run my house?)

As I have said before, the visa is used to enter the country, that is all. People from VWP prgram countries and Canada do not even need one. The fiancee visa is really nothing more than a 90 day visitor visa with the option to adjust status IF one gets married.

That said, I agree, if you cannot visit your fiancee and are one of these that posts hundreds and hundreds of whiney topics about "how long it takes" because you cannot afford a plane ticket to visit or your boss won't give you time off at your cashier job, you really are biting off more than you can chew to bring someone from a foreign country to marry you. It is WAY expensive to do so and the government fees are NOTHING!

That said, there are practical uses for the fiancee visa. For one thing it is the only one that allows a fiancee with children age 18-20. That can be a very important factor for many people.

Basically I am not one to ASK the government to further restrict what I can do. They have an obligation to protect OTHER people from what I choose, and nothing else. If my choice of spouse is no threat to anyone else and I must pay for my own decisions...what is the problem?

Edited February 3, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[ONA 133]

Perhaps you are projecting too much of your experience onto the matter without realizing not everyone does a K1 for the reasons you assume.

SOme people are separated due to military duty, some people have religious considerations.

SOme countries have requirements for marriage which makes it much more simpler to marry State-side.

Some people just want to be married in the Good ole USA for what ever reason.

THe real question should be, "is there a problem with the K1 type visa, ..high failure rate? High fraud?

Other than your opinion is there any other reason to do away with the K1?

If there is, I might agree, but I am not aware of any overwhelming reason to not allow it.

Well said.

And I don't understand why the topoc starter suggests that getting married on tourist visa (or maybe student visa or work visa or whatever), which means breaking the immigration rules by the way, is better than getting a fiance(e) visa. Getting married in fiance(e)'s home country and then be apart after the wedding does not sound like a good idea to me either.

So, people just know better what's the best option for them.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well said.

And I don't understand why the topoc starter suggests that getting married on tourist visa (or maybe student visa or work visa or whatever), which means breaking the immigration rules by the way, is better than getting a fiance(e) visa. Getting married in fiance(e)'s home country and then be apart after the wedding does not sound like a good idea to me either.

So, people just know better what's the best option for them.

To be clear, getting MARRIED on a tourist visa or VWP is NOT breaking any laws. Doing so AND attempting to adjust status IS fraud. Provided the person comes, gets married and returns when their privilege to be here expires and waits for the I-130 to be processed, it is NOT illegal or fraud.

The fiancee visa only allows someone to enter, the same as someone from a VWP country. IF they get married AND adjust staus then they can stay. If there is no "committment" in the form of marriage, it is a 90 visitor pass and that is all.

There is also no guarantee in any marriage and such should not be the concern of the government anyway. If the government has such an interest in that, then just make it a lot harder to get a divorce...right?

For the CR-1 the marriage can take place ANYwhere, not just in the home country of the foreign spouse. The CR-1 has a lot of advantages over the K-1. In fact, the K-1 is not a good visa at all UNLESS the intending immigrant has no need and no intent to work for several months or more, no need and no intent to leave the US for several months and has no children between the ages of 18-20.

I live very close to the Canada border. I could easily meet and get engaged to a Canadian woman (if I were still single) as about 90% of women within an hour of my house are Canadians. A woman from Canada could commute to her her job in Canada even after marriage. How dumb would it be to use a K-1 visa and say she could not return to Canada, 10 minutes drive away, for 3-6 months and not work here in the meantime?

Even from another country, such as Ukraine, if the person needs to work there and will need to work here as soon as possible, get married first then get the CR-1 and she can work right away when she arrives. Provided she has a marketable skill and speaks English well.

All too much is made of visas anyway, there are so many more issues just in LIFE that the visa is such a miniscule thing anyway. For those not together yet, it seems like a mountian of hassle. It isn't. A few days after arrival all that is forgotten and you go about the business of LIFE with a person who is new to the country, possibly cannot drive, possibly cannot speak English, cannot work, needs a LOT of things...believe me, you are going to be busy and spend a lot of money!

[Fandango 1,439]

To be clear, getting MARRIED on a tourist visa or VWP is NOT breaking any laws. Doing so AND attempting to adjust status IS fraud. Provided the person comes, gets married and returns when their privilege to be here expires and waits for the I-130 to be processed, it is NOT illegal or fraud.

not entirely true either...depends on intent at POE that defines it as fraud or not.

All too much is made of visas anyway, there are so many more issues just in LIFE that the visa is such a miniscule thing anyway. For those not together yet, it seems like a mountian of hassle. It isn't. A few days after arrival all that is forgotten and you go about the business of LIFE with a person who is new to the country, possibly cannot drive, possibly cannot speak English, cannot work, needs a LOT of things...believe me, you are going to be busy and spend a lot of money!

Couldn't agree more. I think that some/many people like to romanticize the waiting as some sort of modern day Romeo and Juliet scenario. People are separated from their spouses all the time work, military, etc. No one's gonna die. You just get thru it, and focus on what happens afterward. I think if more people spent the time apart preparing for the foreign SO's arrival, things would be a lot easier - both before and after arrival.

Also, I've also said many times that the K-1 from a VWP country is just a bullsh!t visa to begin with. It should be done away with.

Oh, and one more thing, the K-1 is not the 'get to know you' visa. So many use it as such and it drives me insane when I read that on here.

[rika60607 215]

I desagree,

it only takes government fees + an air plane ticket to bring someone from a foreign country to marry you.

Well, may be also $30 for a marriage license.

It is entirely possible, that the would be immigrant speaks perfect English and has an in demand training, such, that he/she can land a job even before arrival to the US. Our imaginary immigrant has visited US many times, is well accustomed to the life here and in fact may be even already lived here while schooling or working on some short term contract.

That said, I agree, if you cannot visit your fiancee and are one of these that posts hundreds and hundreds of whiney topics about "how long it takes" because you cannot afford a plane ticket to visit or your boss won't give you time off at your cashier job, you really are biting off more than you can chew to bring someone from a foreign country to marry you. It is WAY expensive to do so and the government fees are NOTHING!

[SMR 368]

In a practical "let me give you some advice" way, your statements are true. In a "let's make a law that applies to everyone" way, they are wrong.

US citizens should be able to meet and marry anyone they want from anywhere in the world. Period. The government owes it to the rest of us to assure that your fiancee is no threat to the country and that neither you or she will spnge off the rest of us. We can do that easily. Drop the affidavit of support altogether (there is no such thing if you marry the girl next door) and simply disqualify any fiancee/wife AND the sponsoring US citizen AND any resulting family from any means based assistance for 10 years after the green card is issued. The affidavit is BS anyway, especially in a recession. You have a job today, so what?

the government does not need to get involved in relationships, family finances and such (as if they have any control over their own finances, they are going to tell ME how to run my house?)

As I have said before, the visa is used to enter the country, that is all. People from VWP prgram countries and Canada do not even need one. The fiancee visa is really nothing more than a 90 day visitor visa with the option to adjust status IF one gets married.

That said, I agree, if you cannot visit your fiancee and are one of these that posts hundreds and hundreds of whiney topics about "how long it takes" because you cannot afford a plane ticket to visit or your boss won't give you time off at your cashier job, you really are biting off more than you can chew to bring someone from a foreign country to marry you. It is WAY expensive to do so and the government fees are NOTHING!

That said, there are practical uses for the fiancee visa. For one thing it is the only one that allows a fiancee with children age 18-20. That can be a very important factor for many people.

Basically I am not one to ASK the government to further restrict what I can do. They have an obligation to protect OTHER people from what I choose, and nothing else. If my choice of spouse is no threat to anyone else and I must pay for my own decisions...what is the problem?

I think you covered my thoughts on the subject pretty well. My one disagreement is that you still seem to think that the problem is immigrants and their families mooching off the system. The real problem is people mooching off the system. Why do we get up in arms about somebody born in Poland, Mexico, or Ghana getting tax funded benefits without paying taxes but aren't equally upset if that person was born in L.A., Chicago, or Florida? Simply eliminate these entitlement payouts and there would be no need for the government to intrude into everyone's personal finances.

To be clear, getting MARRIED on a tourist visa or VWP is NOT breaking any laws. Doing so AND attempting to adjust status IS fraud. Provided the person comes, gets married and returns when their privilege to be here expires and waits for the I-130 to be processed, it is NOT illegal or fraud.

Even if you attempt to adjust status, it's only fraud if you had the intention to adjust status when crossing the POE. If you come on a tourist visa, meet someone and decide to get married and stay, that isn't fraud. Even if you previously knew the person but weren't intending to marry and stay, that wouldn't be fraud. And technically speaking, although it's a fine line to tread and difficult to prove in a practical case, even if you came on a tourist visa with the intention of marrying someone, it wouldn't be fraud if you had originally intended to leave and made the decision to stay and adjust status after POE. Fraud occurs when you enter the US with a non-immigrant visa with the intention of staying.

For the CR-1 the marriage can take place ANYwhere, not just in the home country of the foreign spouse. The CR-1 has a lot of advantages over the K-1. In fact, the K-1 is not a good visa at all UNLESS the intending immigrant has no need and no intent to work for several months or more, no need and no intent to leave the US for several months and has no children between the ages of 18-20.

Another advantage of the K-1 is that it can be faster. If ditching your job and moving to the foreign country to wait out a CR-1 is not an option and having the foreign spouse work immediately after entry is not critical, the K-1 can be a much better option. For K-1, the time from filing to POE is typically less. CR-1 comes out a little better when you add in AOS time, but if work or travel are not critical, neither is the AOS time. Additionally, K-1 allows you to file immediately after engagement while CR-1 requires that you get married. Unless you are fine with a courthouse wedding in jeans with a judge and his secretary as witnesses, you'll need some time to plan the wedding. I'd say we're talking 3 months minimum, especially if relatives need visas to get to the wedding. With K-1, wedding planning and visa wait time can be concurrent.

[ryna 132]

Remind me again how it's anyone else's business when/where some other couple decides to get married?

[Y&E 12]

The fiance visa is an interesting visa. My home country does not allow fiances to get visas (you must be married for 1 year or in a de facto marriage - 2 years co-habiting) to get a resident visa through family there. My motherland allows fiances to get resident visas but the regulations are more stringent than here i.e. english language requirement and both parties over 21. Maybe that is something that would improve the US K1 system.

[^_^ 5,021]

This thread is destined to be a VJ classic.

Unless we can impress upon one of the organizers the need to move this to OT. Then it will die.

Looks I was wrong.

[TracyTN 237]

MAN! How - as the 'instigator of the post' - did I not come up with this gem of a topic??!!!

*skulks away to reconsider her future and her member title* Hmph.

[ONA 133]

Another advantage of the K-1 is that it can be faster. If ditching your job and moving to the foreign country to wait out a CR-1 is not an option and having the foreign spouse work immediately after entry is not critical, the K-1 can be a much better option. For K-1, the time from filing to POE is typically less. CR-1 comes out a little better when you add in AOS time, but if work or travel are not critical, neither is the AOS time. Additionally, K-1 allows you to file immediately after engagement while CR-1 requires that you get married. Unless you are fine with a courthouse wedding in jeans with a judge and his secretary as witnesses, you'll need some time to plan the wedding. I'd say we're talking 3 months minimum, especially if relatives need visas to get to the wedding. With K-1, wedding planning and visa wait time can be concurrent.

That's a good point. That's exactly why me and my fiance have chosen me going back to Russia and filing for K1 visa over getting married in the US last summer and filing for CR1 visa after i go back.

So again: it's good when everybody has an opportunity to choose what's better for them.

[SMR 368]

I desagree,

it only takes government fees + an air plane ticket to bring someone from a foreign country to marry you.

Well, may be also $30 for a marriage license.

It is entirely possible, that the would be immigrant speaks perfect English and has an in demand training, such, that he/she can land a job even before arrival to the US. Our imaginary immigrant has visited US many times, is well accustomed to the life here and in fact may be even already lived here while schooling or working on some short term contract.

Technically, you're right. But the whole foreign issue aside, getting married typically requires some money. And while it's possible the foreign spouse will be able to support him or herself, it's not the typical situation, at least not at first. But I don't think the point is so much that bringing a fiance(e) or spouse to the US is expensive. It's just that adult life is expensive and if you're squeamish about a few hundred dollars to file for a visa, you have some growing up to do.

With that said, I think that the fees are outrageous. It's not just a question of whether or not living with the spouse you love is worth a couple thousand dollars. If the cost to renew a driver's license, for instance, was suddenly $1000, it would still be worth it for most people who simply can't get along without driving. But it's an outrageous price for the government to charge.

I see the whole thing as similar to the mafia and protection money. The government isn't providing you a service by allowing you to bring your foreign family member to the US; the government is simply getting out of your way. When a couple thugs come to your house and let you know that unless you pay them a couple thousand dollars they won't be able to make sure your house doesn't burn down, overall it's worth it to pay them off, assuming you know they really can burn it down. That doesn't mean that they are providing you a "service" that is worth what you are paying for it.

Edited February 3, 2011 by SMR

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The fiance visa is an interesting visa. My home country does not allow fiances to get visas (you must be married for 1 year or in a de facto marriage - 2 years co-habiting) to get a resident visa through family there. My motherland allows fiances to get resident visas but the regulations are more stringent than here i.e. english language requirement and both parties over 21. Maybe that is something that would improve the US K1 system.

What is your home country? It must not be the UK?

[Dan and Judy 614]

Fiancee visas are garbage. They are lifelong commitments for puppy love. If the USC doesn't have the guts to marry their "love" in his/her country or if that person doesn't have the means to get a tourist visa then maybe it's not "made to be." I will raise the stakes and say anyone who makes less than 45,000 a year should not even be considered to sponsor someone and no co-sponsors. I am just sick of reading things where people can't afford a 2,500 dollar trip at least every 6 months. Or they gripe about a 20 dollar charge for this or for that. Grow up folks. Life is expensive.

Immigration fees should be waived for those making less than $45,000 a year