The American paradox of Christianity and capitalism

[Dan J 277]

Close but... not.

A tax cut is an admission that monies have been collected that shouldn't have or funds that are no longer justified.

Sometimes a "tax increase" turns out to yield a negative revenue stream over all, and so a "tax cut" is offered to remedy this.

-No government can operate with out expense.....

when we have efficient Government, we will have a tax rate that reflects that.

Tax cuts are more tools to curry political favor. If they were set to cover government expenses they should be much higher.

Let me be clear here as well, we are talking about the taxes that go into the general fund, of which DoD is by far the largest expense. Social Security and Medicare are funded by separate taxes which at least for now is balanced.

[B_J 2,752]

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

At no point did Jesus say to give everything to the government. He wants us to make the CHOICE to help others. We are to be kind and loving INDIVIDUALS. Jesus came to change people; not decide if governments should be socialist, capitalist, etc.

Argue health care all you want; but pulling Jesus into the argument is a no win situation.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

At no point did Jesus say to give everything to the government. He wants us to make the CHOICE to help others. We are to be kind and loving INDIVIDUALS. Jesus came to change people; not decide if governments should be socialist, capitalist, etc.

Argue health care all you want; but pulling Jesus into the argument is a no win situation.

+1

Government cannot tax your way into heaven.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Of course, he also said Give to Caesar what is Caesar's in Matt 22:21. But it is obvious he never advocated a Theocracy or a Communistic State, even though he and his followers basically lived in a commune.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Sousuke

[Dan J 277]

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

At no point did Jesus say to give everything to the government. He wants us to make the CHOICE to help others. We are to be kind and loving INDIVIDUALS. Jesus came to change people; not decide if governments should be socialist, capitalist, etc.

Argue health care all you want; but pulling Jesus into the argument is a no win situation.

There is no pulling Jesus into the argument. But there are people who claim to be followers of Jesus who do and say pretty much everything Jesus was against. Its the hypocrisy of the position that being pointed out, not that Jesus is a justification for Universal health care.

[mawilson 2,133]

Ever notice how the "our country was founded on Christian principals" crowd grow strangely silent when their own Christian principals dictate they materially help their less fortunate neighbors?

Well, first of all it's "principles", not "principals".

The country wasn't founded on heads of schools. Nor was it founded on Christian principles. In fact, the founding fathers hated Christianity:

"The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

-- Thomas Jefferson

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

-- Thomas Jefferson

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

--John Adams

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

-- James Madison

"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."

--Abraham Lincoln

[Danno 1,228]

There is no pulling Jesus into the argument. But there are people who claim to be followers of Jesus who do and say pretty much everything Jesus was against. Its the hypocrisy of the position that being pointed out, not that Jesus is a justification for Universal health care.

I guess I need to repost the research that shows -Who gives to charity.... and who doesn't?

Hint: Religious folk way out give .. in time and money non religious folks.... even in non-religous causes.

[dalegg 143]

If everyone in America actually followed Christianity to the letter we would actually resemble a Socialist State, the only difference being that we would all enjoy it. There's no way a commandment like "thou shalt not covet they neighbor's (anything)" can work in a Capitalist state. You have to be poor and ultra-giving, but you have to do it of your own free will. Otherwise its back to the crusades.

[B_J 2,752]

When Americans decry socialism what they often mean is sharing.

For many Europeans living here the intensity of many American's objection to public programs of any kind is a terrific surprise, particularly when you notice how generous they can be one on one.

So something as helpful as a national health care program, which you'd think would be probably a national priority, is instead refashioned as a terrifying communist plot - and the lives of Senators and Congressional leaders are actually threatened over its implementation. Glenn Beck actually says "the war is just beginning," on his show in response to it. Talk about doomsday rhetoric.

American commentator Stephen Colbert put's the viewpoint succinctly:

"If this is gonna be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that he commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition - and then admit that we just don't want to do it."

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/manhattan_diary/the-american-paradox-of-christianity-and-capitalism-113196094.html

Notice that the writer acknowledges that American's are very generous. The problems seems to be that we aren't generous in the way he wants us to be generous; having the gov't take our money and do what they want with it. Apparently that's real generosity.

The Colbert quote is pretty good. We Christians don't always do the things we should do. And, honestly, it's usually just because we don't want to. Of course, that's only Christians. Everybody else gives so much more to charity.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

At no point did Jesus say to give everything to the government. He wants us to make the CHOICE to help others. We are to be kind and loving INDIVIDUALS. Jesus came to change people; not decide if governments should be socialist, capitalist, etc.

Argue health care all you want; but pulling Jesus into the argument is a no win situation.

Providing health care for all doesn't translate into giving all your money to the government. Second, the money goes to your neighbors, the ones Jesus said to love as you love yourself. Jesus also said, "Render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's."

If we turned our backs to those in need in this country through policy, how is that not any different from Jesus' parable that, "whatsoever you do the least of these, you do unto me?" We are individually responsible for the kinds of policies our country has in the way we treat ourselves and each other in the context of the Gospel. There are lots of evangelical Christians who do recognize how that responsibility translates into public policy, it's just unfortunate that many Christians on the Right focus on policies against things like homosexuality (individual morality), rather than social justice (public morality). In fact, many of them think social justice is just some kind of communist-speak vs. an understanding of Jesus' message.

Edited January 18, 2011 by 8TBVBN

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

In fact, many of them think social justice is just some kind of communist-speak vs. an understanding of Jesus' message.

Actually, in the form of Liberation Theology, it is a heresy proclaimed by the soon to be sainted Pope (retired).

Edited January 18, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Deliver us From Liberation Theology

The Vatican Speaks on Social Justice

Edited January 18, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Actually, in the form of Liberation Theology, it is a heresy proclaimed by the soon to be sainted Pope (retired).

Sorry. The current Pope in his former life, not John Paul II.

Caritas in Veriate

Edited January 18, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Actually, in the form of Liberation Theology, it is a heresy proclaimed by the soon to be sainted Pope (retired).

If you believe as a Catholic and a Christian that we have no moral obligations beyond our capacities as individuals, you have missed the understanding of the Gospel. You can find all kinds of arch-conservative Catholic websites like that which support such an archaic view of the Gospel, but that doesn't represent the Church's stance on social justice, which has been a central aspect of our faith. The Church's own charities function on that premise.

"Far too many Catholics are not familiar with the basic content of Catholic social teaching. More fundamentally, many Catholics do not adequately understand that the social teaching of the Church is an essential part of Catholic faith. This poses a serious challenge for all Catholics, since it weakens our capacity to be a Church that is true to the demands of the Gospel. We need to do more to share the social mission and message of our Church." Sharing Catholic Social Teaching: Challenges and Directions

U.S. Catholic Bishops

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If you believe as a Catholic and a Christian that we have no moral obligations beyond our capacities as individuals, you have missed the understanding of the Gospel. You can find all kinds of arch-conservative Catholic websites like that which support such an archaic view of the Gospel, but that doesn't represent the Church's stance on social justice, which has been a central aspect of our faith. The Church's own charities function on that premise.

"Far too many Catholics are not familiar with the basic content of Catholic social teaching. More fundamentally, many Catholics do not adequately understand that the social teaching of the Church is an essential part of Catholic faith. This poses a serious challenge for all Catholics, since it weakens our capacity to be a Church that is true to the demands of the Gospel. We need to do more to share the social mission and message of our Church." Sharing Catholic Social Teaching: Challenges and Directions

U.S. Catholic Bishops

As long as you can do it without embracing Marxism, fine. But, the terms, "Social Justice" and "Liberation Theology", as defined by their proponents, actively embrace Marxism as an ideology.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Some Old Guy