When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I remember when a friend got a permit for a shotgun in the UK. He basically had to show that he has country property etc. Though if I remember correctly, pretty much any UK citizen with no record can get a permit or two if they keep their firearms at a club or range and can show they shoot for sport. Charles hinted at it but ammunition can't be stockpiled, and semi-automatics are limited I think to .22s? Bolt actions are pretty limitless. Shotguns are limited too if I remember, 1+1s or maybe 2+1s...so no auto loaders obviously.

Ironically I love muzzle loaders and both UK and US have very little in terms of regulation on them because they are classified as antiques or replicas.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I remember when a friend got a permit for a shotgun in the UK. He basically had to show that he has country property etc. Though if I remember correctly, pretty much any UK citizen with no record can get a permit or two if they keep their firearms at a club or range and can show they shoot for sport. Charles hinted at it but ammunition can't be stockpiled, and semi-automatics are limited I think to .22s? Bolt actions are pretty limitless. Shotguns are limited too if I remember, 1+1s or maybe 2+1s...so no auto loaders obviously.

Ironically I love muzzle loaders and both UK and US have very little in terms of regulation on them because they are classified as antiques or replicas.

All good reasons not to live in the UK and good reasons why we have the 2nd amendment. We used to be part of that whole UK thing if you remember. When they came to take our guns, we shot back.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's not necessary, that's the point, and you still haven't made one reasonable argument as to why it would be.

He doesn't have to. The 2nd amendment is settled law. Read the Heller decision. Google Heller.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Exactly. I hear so often that the second amendment somehow guarantees freedom from tyranny, and yet there are no concrete examples of how exactly it achieves that, and what the line in the sand is as to when acceptable government turns into tyranny. I do see a lot of bullshit being spouted concerning the notion that the right to own a gun in and of itself somehow scares the ###### out of 'government' (presumably just fed gov, that being the 'evil' kind of gov) and that in and of itself serves the purpose of keeping America free. However, there is no clear explanation of how that works, just that it does, and that somehow American citizens have some special kind of freedom that citizens of other countries lack but again with no clear explanation of what the difference is except that people like Gary can walk around all day carrying a concealed gun about their person should they so desire. That is an incredibly bizarre version of freedom if you ask me.

Read the Heller and McDonald Supreme Court Decisions.

I will give you some examples of other armed societies deterring tyranny while you look it up...Sweden, Switzerland, Isreal.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

He doesn't have to. The 2nd amendment is settled law. Read the Heller decision. Google Heller.

If you can't argue against case for it, then whether or not its settled law, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that you don't know what it means.

[Jenn! 918]

pause and ask yourself: who was the militia back then? every able bodied male over a certain age.

well regulated - some sources indicate it means equipped to a minimum standard.

ok, so who is the militia now?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It's true that guns are necessary to the security of a free state.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

yes

[Captain Oates 910]

The US Government has a military that is bigger than all the other countries of the world put together

The US Government has nuclear weapons

..and they are frightened of some hick with a missing front tooth and who thinks he is tough ? or some pea brain sat at home with his galactic warrior avatar on his computer who works nights filling shelves at Walmart and then grunts all day online like he is the right wing supremacist version of Che Guevara ?

The ironic thing is that the people who hate their own government so much are the first ones to defend it to the death if it is criticized by a foreigner...isn't that strange ?

The US government for all it's faults, goes up in my estimation every day when I compare it to some of it's citizens

[slim 1,514]

ok, so who is the militia now?

Same as it was back then. "All males physcially capable of acting in concert for the common defense."

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Same as it was back then. "All males physcially capable of acting in concert for the common defense."

No! You can't say that! Men today are supposed to be Metrosexual/half-feminine! The idea of men willing to fight is a long done thing of the past!!!

[Jenn! 918]

Same as it was back then. "All males physcially capable of acting in concert for the common defense."

Well, it's clear then that females should not be allowed to own guns. Nor should the elderly.

ETA: Elderly meaning over the age of 45, of course.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— <A name=b_1>(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Jenn!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

All good reasons not to live in the UK and good reasons why we have the 2nd amendment. We used to be part of that whole UK thing if you remember. When they came to take our guns, we shot back.

Well I suppose if the government went postal all the club users could grab their guns if they wanted to....

Just curious, does anyone here have a conceal permit? I still think its pretty funny that I could take a percussion cap pistol around with in my bag or put it in my glovebox, wouldn't need any kind of paperwork, and its totally legal.

[mawilson 2,133]

If we really want to be able to draw up an effective militia, it seems we ought to at least have rocket propelled grenades, mortars, heavy machine guns, artillery, tanks, maybe a few fighter jets with heat seeking missiles and 'smart' bombs, maybe even a few nukes!

If you can afford it, who's to prevent you from having all that?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If you can afford it, who's to prevent you from having all that?

I'm pretty sure for instance there at least two vulcan cannons in private ownership in the US.

[slim 1,514]

Well, it's clear then that females should not be allowed to own guns. Nor should the elderly.

ETA: Elderly meaning over the age of 45, of course.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— <A name=b_1>(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

You must've missed the part that said owning arms was an individual right, not just for the militia.

Go ahead and read the Heller decision again.