When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[Peikko 1,575]

What line would you draw in the sand?

Personally, it is my belief that if one has the ability to participate in free and fair elections (subject to the appropriate age limitations) , then one has no right whatsoever to overturn the outcome just because person the elected does not conform with you personal vision of what government should mean.

Some of the posters on VJ seem to feel differently. Feel free to draw your own lines.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Madame Cleo

[^_^ 5,021]

Draw guidance from the language, maybe?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The key is 'free state'. When we are not, then you invoke 2nd Amendment remedies. Well, you don't cuz you don't have a gun. Neither do I. We'll both look to Charles to do our heavy lifting for us. Hopefully he doesn't bear a VJ grudge!

[mawilson 2,133]

It's true that guns are necessary to the security of a free state.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

Draw guidance from the language, maybe?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The key is 'free state'. When we are not, then you invoke 2nd Amendment remedies. Well, you don't cuz you don't have a gun. Neither do I. We'll both look to Charles to do our heavy lifting for us. Hopefully he doesn't bear a VJ grudge!

what says i'm interested in doing your heavy lifting? you're younger than me, get busy!

[Peikko 1,575]

It's true that guns are necessary to the security of a free state.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

What does that actually mean? It means very little to me. I don't think anyone in a free society like the UK or USA genuinely believes that the 'government' (elected representatives of 'we the people') fear the people on the back of the fact that some of them carry weapons - for lots of very obvious reasons. The best way for government to 'fear' the people is by having transparency and a free and thorough press.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Madame Cleo

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

When only the police have guns, and the criminals don't, I will feel safe. Let me know when that happens.

[Danno 1,228]

And of course "elections" are just one component ... but certainly not the only component to be mindful of.

THis country threw off tyranny, if it should return... via free elections or not.... that might be the not so perfect line in the sand for me.

,

[Peikko 1,575]

When only the police have guns, and the criminals don't, I will feel safe. Let me know when that happens.

What has 'feeling safe' got to do with it? I feel perfectly safe, armed criminals notwithstanding. I don't circulate in a criminal world so the chances of my being targeted by the criminal world are zero and being caught in the crossfire of a crime negligible. However, that has nothing to do with availing oneself of the right to change government by force, nothing whatsoever. Start your own topic on public safety if you so wish.

And of course "elections" are just one component ... but certainly not the only component to be mindful of.

THis country threw off tyranny, if it should return... via free elections or not.... that might be the not so perfect line in the sand for me.

,

Oh brother.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

"We the People" haven't governed this country for some time. Free elections my #######. In the end, our government is and has been for sale to the higest bidder. Everything else is just for show.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

"We the People" haven't governed this country for some time. Free elections my #######. In the end, our government is and has been for sale to the higest bidder. Everything else is just for show.

Is that a yea vote for an affirmative Second Amendment solution?

[Danno 1,228]

What I find interesting is, after ten years and billions of dollars fighting a rag-tag army with no tanks, no airforce, no armor and little money we seldom hear the old lines about how an armed citizenry would have no defense against the US military.

[^_^ 5,021]

I think Madame Cleo is looking for a verifiable test which would determine when we are no longer in a 'free state'.

How about this - if exiting the country or taking assets out of the country requires getting permission and lots of people (say, 20%) are not permitted. That's a key test of how free we are.

[Danno 1,228]

Oh brother.

If you can't have an adult conversation Cleo..... don't try to start one.

[mawilson 2,133]

Is that a yea vote for an affirmative Second Amendment solution?

Probably not, because even if you start a revolution to overthrow the Republican-Democrat regime,

who do you replace them with?

The alternative isn't going to be pretty.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is that a yea vote for an affirmative Second Amendment solution?

No, it isn't.