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Kimo3

Evidence... your opinion plz.

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Yep, I've looked over a few threads but call me just plain neurotic. We still haven't received our NOA-2 (Aug filer) and I'm growing even more nervous as time goes by so I figured I'd ask these questions in the mean time.

As far as evidence of on going relationship:

I really don't do a whole lot of letter writing. This includes email because I'm not good at it. I won't do snail mail cause it won't get to her.

I DO however talk to her EVERY DAY! I have purchased MANY (read: ton) of calling cards that I use to call her. I have kept the receipts for these calling cards and submitted them with the I-129F petition. I did NOT however request a copy of my phone bill to show that I have been calling that toll free number. Should I have done this to show the minutes?

I did not do bank transfers with my fiancee. I simply transferred money to her using Western Union. I kept and sent every receipt which had her name on it. Think that's good enough for support and on-going relationship?

The photos.... I sent plenty of photos of us but I did NOT label these photos and where we were. I'm thinking now that I should have because we covered a LOT of ground in Thailand during my visit. I stayed for 31 days and I not only saw her home of Rayong but we went to Chon Buri, she surprised me with a trip to the Million Year Old Stone Park in Pattaya, followed up with a trip to Chiang Mai and then to Bangkok for a night because that's where I was flying out of.

I did include copies of my plane tickets which show my arrival date and departure date (30 day difference) and the first week stay on the beach in Rayong. After that we stayed at off the internet hotels that didn't cost nearly as much as the first week (14$ a day). I did not keep the receipts for these hotels though (didn't know about K-1 then) so they did not get those.

What do you think? How does this sound?

P.S. I'm going back in February (3 weeks) and knowing what I know now... I will save EVERYTHING and take more pictures with labels. With this second trip though, I will be staying with her at her place in Rayong as opposed to traversing Thailand.

~Is there anything I should pay attention to on the second trip to see her?

Thanks!


Filed I-129F CSC ~~~~~ 3 August 2010

NOA-1 Received ~~.~~~ 6 August 2010

Called CSC @ 5 mo mk ~ 6 January 2011

**CSC added 21 days to normal processing period***

Service Call ~~~~.~~~~ 27 January 2011

NOA-2 APPROVED! ~~ 27 January 2011

NVC Received ~~~~~~~ 1 February 2011

Embassy Received ~.~~ 8 February 2011

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Mostly, they prefer such evidences that build mutual relationship between the petitioner and the beneficiary like:

1- Pictures taken together on different occasions.

2- Videos showing joint relationship (home made vids, parties, weddings, fiancee party..etc)

3- Phone Calls (if any)

4- Chat History ( messaging, emails..etc)

5- Shopping Receipts ( jewelry, clothes..etc)

6- Money Transfers.

7- Joint Residency.

8- Flights, Hotel stays..etc

9- Rent Receipts (if any)

10- A Cover Letter explaining the chronicles of the relationship. How it started, developed and went on. (Preferable)

Generally, the more evidences you provide , the stronger your petition is. But more or less, there's not a limited ceiling for the number of the items you have to provide with. So, no worry. I see you are doing great.

Wishing you both the best :)

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I am seeing so much conflicting advice here about the K-1. First some people say when you initially send the petition, don't worry about evidience of ongoing relationship. I have been told just to send evidence of meeting, like boarding passes, tickets, passport stamps, and photos. I have been under the impression that the evidence of ongoing relationship is only needed at the time of the interview. I am ready to send the petition in the next couple of days and i have printed out a few skype and yahoo conversations, and some sms history, but that's it concerning the evidence of ongoing relationship. And also the photos I am sending are dated from Jan 2010, and also from my most recent trip in Nov 2010. To me that would be considered evidence of an ongoing relationship.

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I am seeing so much conflicting advice here about the K-1. First some people say when you initially send the petition' date=' don't worry about evidience of ongoing relationship. I have been told just to send evidence of meeting, like boarding passes, tickets, passport stamps, and photos. I have been under the impression that the evidence of ongoing relationship is only needed at the time of the interview. I am ready to send the petition in the next couple of days and i have printed out a few skype and yahoo conversations, and some sms history, but that's it concerning the evidence of ongoing relationship. And also the photos I am sending are dated from Jan 2010, and also from my most recent trip in Nov 2010. To me that would be considered evidence of an ongoing relationship. [/quote']

My photos weren't labeled and the tickets are from March of 2010. I filed in August of 2010. I hope that's good enough. I sent them receipts of money and calling cards during the period between visit and petition.

There will be more as I'm going back to see her soon. I plan to keep all receipts this time and take more photos with labels.

Also... I have the money transfers to her I kept receipts of and calling cards receipts. I was worried that I did not have emails or letters between the two of us. It's just not something I do. I want to hear her voice every day so I call. That and internet for her is expensive where she lives. In my opinion, the fact that the calling cards cost much more than an email should show proof of relationship.

I hope I'm just being paranoid and what I sent was good enough for the approval to move forward to the interview.


Filed I-129F CSC ~~~~~ 3 August 2010

NOA-1 Received ~~.~~~ 6 August 2010

Called CSC @ 5 mo mk ~ 6 January 2011

**CSC added 21 days to normal processing period***

Service Call ~~~~.~~~~ 27 January 2011

NOA-2 APPROVED! ~~ 27 January 2011

NVC Received ~~~~~~~ 1 February 2011

Embassy Received ~.~~ 8 February 2011

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My photos weren't labeled and the tickets are from March of 2010. I filed in August of 2010. I hope that's good enough. I sent them receipts of money and calling cards during the period between visit and petition.

There will be more as I'm going back to see her soon. I plan to keep all receipts this time and take more photos with labels.

Also... I have the money transfers to her I kept receipts of and calling cards receipts. I was worried that I did not have emails or letters between the two of us. It's just not something I do. I want to hear her voice every day so I call. That and internet for her is expensive where she lives. In my opinion, the fact that the calling cards cost much more than an email should show proof of relationship.

I hope I'm just being paranoid and what I sent was good enough for the approval to move forward to the interview.

You should be paranoid. Look here:

http://www.visajourney.com/reviews/view-dos-cis-reviews.php?entry=4078


Service Center : Vermont Service Center

Consulate : Bangkok, Thailand

Marriage : 2006-11-08

I-130 Sent : 2008-02-22

I-130 NOA1 : 2008-03-10

I-129F Sent : 2008-04-08

I-129F NOA1 : 2008-04-14

I-129F touched: 2008-05-06

I-130 touched: 2008-05-09

I-129F approved 2008-09-05

I-130 approved 2008-09-05

NVC received 2008-09-12

Pay I-864 2008-10-08

Pay IV bill 2008-10-08

Receive Instruction 2008-11-05

Case Complete 2008-11-18

Medical 2009-01-19/20 passed

Receive Pkt 4 2009-01-30

Interview 221g 2009-02-23

Second interview 2009-03-02 Approved

POE DFW 2009-03-07

Received SS card 2009-03-17

Received GC 2009-04-01

Done for 3 years or 10 years. Haven't decided yet.

(I'm going for the IR-1 and blowing off the K-3. Even if it takes an extra couple months, it's worth it to not have to deal with USCIS again)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Note:

Please fill out I-130, wait 6 months for approval, then 3 more months for an interview. (Unless of course we've bombed your country into the stone age, then you qualify for expedited processing.)

Welcome to the USA!!!

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You only need to prove that you two met in order to have the I-129f approved. You are fine.

The evidence of an ongoing relationship is only needed for the K1 interview.


K1: 01/15/2009 (mailed I-129F) - 06/23/2009 (visa received)

AOS: 08/08/2009 (mailed I-485, I-765, & I-131) - 10/29/2009 (received GC)

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You only need to prove that you two met in order to have the I-129f approved. You are fine.

The evidence of an ongoing relationship is only needed for the K1 interview.

The above advice is dangerously simplistic and can be thoroughly misinterpreted, and it needs to be expanded upon.

When dealing with any third-world consulate, it makes utter sense to front-load one's K-1 petition with as much "evidence of bona fide relationship" as can be gathered.

Yes, it's true that USCIS will approve petitions if the couple has met in the last two years and each of the parties is free to marry. It's also incontrovertibly true that consular officers (COs) rely heavily on "evidence of relationship" that has been included in the petition filing. (USCIS doesn't care about this "extra" material, but they pass it to the consulate.)

There's no guarantee that a CO will accept evidence that's brought when someone shows up at a visa interview. However, COs are required to accept the existence of evidence that USCIS has seen.

No videos, CDs, or electronic media are accepted or acceptable, either by mail or in person at the interview. Expired calling-cards, and even more so the receipts of their purchase, are completely worthless. What you need is an itemized list of calls from a distinct phone number to another distinct phone number. And, my friend, you'd better become very, very good (and proficient, and prolific) with e-mail if you expect to have a snowball's chance. Photos alone won't cut it. Money-transfers or Western Union transactions may or may not prove to be helpful, depending upon how the CO perceives the intent behind the "largesse."

I agree with the good member daboyz that you should indeed be very paranoid when it comes to the consular stage. Collect copious, unimpeachable evidence of relationship on your February trip, and begin massive, continuous e-mailing now. Otherwise, your visa journey is at high risk of going down in bright, hot flames.


06-04-2007 = TSC stamps postal return-receipt for I-129f.

06-11-2007 = NOA1 date (unknown to me).

07-20-2007 = Phoned Immigration Officer; got WAC#; where's NOA1?

09-25-2007 = Touch (first-ever).

09-28-2007 = NOA1, 23 days after their 45-day promise to send it (grrrr).

10-20 & 11-14-2007 = Phoned ImmOffs; "still pending."

12-11-2007 = 180 days; file is "between workstations, may be early Jan."; touches 12/11 & 12/12.

12-18-2007 = Call; file is with Division 9 ofcr. (bckgrnd check); e-prompt to shake it; touch.

12-19-2007 = NOA2 by e-mail & web, dated 12-18-07 (187 days; 201 per VJ); in mail 12/24/07.

01-09-2008 = File from USCIS to NVC, 1-4-08; NVC creates file, 1/15/08; to consulate 1/16/08.

01-23-2008 = Consulate gets file; outdated Packet 4 mailed to fiancee 1/27/08; rec'd 3/3/08.

04-29-2008 = Fiancee's 4-min. consular interview, 8:30 a.m.; much evidence brought but not allowed to be presented (consul: "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!").

05-05-2008 = Infuriating $12 call to non-English-speaking consulate appointment-setter.

05-06-2008 = Better $12 call to English-speaker; "joint" interview date 6/30/08 (my selection).

06-30-2008 = Stokes Interrogations w/Ecuadorian (not USC); "wait 2 weeks; we'll mail her."

07-2008 = Daily calls to DOS: "currently processing"; 8/05 = Phoned consulate, got Section Chief; wrote him.

08-07-08 = E-mail from consulate, promising to issue visa "as soon as we get her passport" (on 8/12, per DHL).

08-27-08 = Phoned consulate (they "couldn't find" our file); visa DHL'd 8/28; in hand 9/1; through POE on 10/9 with NO hassles(!).

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The above advice is dangerously simplistic and can be thoroughly misinterpreted, and it needs to be expanded upon.

When dealing with any third-world consulate, it makes utter sense to front-load one's K-1 petition with as much "evidence of bona fide relationship" as can be gathered.

Yes, it's true that USCIS will approve petitions if the couple has met in the last two years and each of the parties is free to marry. It's also incontrovertibly true that consular officers (COs) rely heavily on "evidence of relationship" that has been included in the petition filing. (USCIS doesn't care about this "extra" material, but they pass it to the consulate.)

There's no guarantee that a CO will accept evidence that's brought when someone shows up at a visa interview. However, COs are required to accept the existence of evidence that USCIS has seen.

No videos, CDs, or electronic media are accepted or acceptable, either by mail or in person at the interview. Expired calling-cards, and even more so the receipts of their purchase, are completely worthless. What you need is an itemized list of calls from a distinct phone number to another distinct phone number. And, my friend, you'd better become very, very good (and proficient, and prolific) with e-mail if you expect to have a snowball's chance. Photos alone won't cut it. Money-transfers or Western Union transactions may or may not prove to be helpful, depending upon how the CO perceives the intent behind the "largesse."

I agree with the good member daboyz that you should indeed be very paranoid when it comes to the consular stage. Collect copious, unimpeachable evidence of relationship on your February trip, and begin massive, continuous e-mailing now. Otherwise, your visa journey is at high risk of going down in bright, hot flames.

TBone: I've dealt with the Thailand consulate, this poster is also dealing with the Thailand consulate. You have no direct experience with the Thailand consulate. Nothing about my answer is dangerously simplistic. You have provided the poster with information he does not need and probably scared him unnecessarily. Please leave consulate specific advice to those who have consulate specific experience. No need to front-load at the embassy in Bangkok. Maybe true for your country, but not this one. Si man?

Furthermore, the poster is asking for reassurance that he will be ok with his I-129F submission. He has plenty of evidence, if you read his posts carefully. Also, itemized calls from "distinct phone numbers" are not necessary. The difficulty of the interview at BKK depends on the interviewing officer, and the officers have been a pushover for a while. daboyz had the misfortune of having to deal with a tough one, who is now gone. There is no need to be paranoid at the consular stage, just well-prepared. (generally) Worst-case scenario: they ask you to come back in a couple days with more evidence after your first interview.

One piece of useful information for the poster: the bangkok embassy does NOT accept calling cards at all. So, use a land-line, cell phone, or skype to communicate. You will need to have a sufficient amount of evidence for your interview, as well as a variety of evidence, so check the Thailand related forums to get more information from people who have experience with this consulate, such as sawasdee 4.

Kimo3: You have already commented in Sawasdee 4, so take some time to browse the history of sawasdee 4 and sawasdee 3. You will find some information about other's interview experiences. Also, check out the recent embassy reports provided by members who have dealt with this embassy. Note that the rules for the interview are generally consulate-specific, so what is true or important at one consulate is not at another. The only point TBone brought up that I agree with, somewhat, refers to email. You will likely want to start emailing, but I can't say that writing lots of letters by hand isn't an alternative if, for some reason, that isn't an option.

Edited by rsn

K1: 01/15/2009 (mailed I-129F) - 06/23/2009 (visa received)

AOS: 08/08/2009 (mailed I-485, I-765, & I-131) - 10/29/2009 (received GC)

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Kimo3, yes, there are thousands of opinions out here on VJ. For the most part that what makes this site so awesome! At this point you have filed your K-1 petition if I understand correctly. Out of the possible scenarios, as long as you processed your paperwork correctly, at worst you could conceivably get an RFE. No problem outside of a time delay. Taking into consideration you get an approval of your K-1 Visa (NOA2), in which most people do, and then your fiancée will eventually be scheduled for an interview. This will give you a second chance to present evidence of the relationship. I highly recommend you be prepared with as much documented material as you can put your hands on. It should make it easier on your fiancée, and should allow the consular to be less skeptical. As far as advice is concerned, pay close attention to the senior member’s recommendations on this site. They are not only very knowledgeable, but they give of their time to assist others unselfishly. When it came to our K-1 I used a hunting analogy. Where it seems others might prepare to hunt for small game, I prepared our K-1 packet as if I was hunting bear! (smile)

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Technically, evidence of an ongoing relationship is not necessary on the I129f Petition. It is only needed at the interview. But it can't possibly hurt to send it with the I129f anyway, and if you do, it becomes part of the record that the U.S. Consulate will have at the interview. Just don't overwhelm the Service Center with things they don't need; otherwise it might obscure the things they do need. Send some evidence of an ongoing relationship with the I129f, like a few e-mails, and then have your fiance bring more of them to the interview.

You do, however, need proof that you met in person at least once in the last two years. Photos alone are not enough, as the service centers are specifically told by USCIS to reject photos alone, without something else backing them up like a travel visa. Make sure to date the photos.

If you have two meetings, send proof of both of them so if they find one of them lacking, the other one can save the day.

Typically, consulates in countries with a standard of living considerably lower than in the U.S. are on high alert for marriage fraud and will therefore be much stricter in reviewing the evidence. Unfortunately, Thailand is one of them.

When your fiance goes on the interview, arm her with as many docs as you have for her. There is no such thing as too much, as whatever she does not need she simply keeps in her folder.

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Friend rsn: I'm acutely aware that you've dealt with Bangkok, and my post was not meant as an attack against you or your motives. Please consider a broader view: Other VJ members, whether they may deal with the Thailand consulate or another, could take your post (as it read) literally, and find themselves in perilous circumstances such as a 221g or a refused visa. This was the reason behind the elaboration. Furthermore, although it's wonderful that the COs in Bangkok have been "pushovers" (!) for a while, the difficulty of the interview does depend on the interviewing officer, as you say. Consular personnel -- and Section Chiefs -- are rotated in and out without notice to us, and policies (including degrees of scrutiny and baseline levels of what is considered "minimal vs. sufficient" evidence) can change dramatically, again without notice to us. It's better to be safe than sorry. Furthermore, the OP said that handwritten letters would never reach the addressee, which is why e-mailing becomes even more important.

To all who may be reading: There is NO HARM in providing MORE evidence than may actually be needed.

TBone: I've dealt with the Thailand consulate, this poster is also dealing with the Thailand consulate. You have no direct experience with the Thailand consulate. Nothing about my answer is dangerously simplistic. You have provided the poster with information he does not need and probably scared him unnecessarily. Please leave consulate specific advice to those who have consulate specific experience. No need to front-load at the embassy in Bangkok. Maybe true for your country, but not this one. Si man?

Furthermore, the poster is asking for reassurance that he will be ok with his I-129F submission. He has plenty of evidence, if you read his posts carefully. Also, itemized calls from "distinct phone numbers" are not necessary. The difficulty of the interview at BKK depends on the interviewing officer, and the officers have been a pushover for a while. daboyz had the misfortune of having to deal with a tough one, who is now gone. There is no need to be paranoid at the consular stage, just well-prepared. (generally) Worst-case scenario: they ask you to come back in a couple days with more evidence after your first interview.

One piece of useful information for the poster: the bangkok embassy does NOT accept calling cards at all. So, use a land-line, cell phone, or skype to communicate. You will need to have a sufficient amount of evidence for your interview, as well as a variety of evidence, so check the Thailand related forums to get more information from people who have experience with this consulate, such as sawasdee 4.

Kimo3: You have already commented in Sawasdee 4, so take some time to browse the history of sawasdee 4 and sawasdee 3. You will find some information about other's interview experiences. Also, check out the recent embassy reports provided by members who have dealt with this embassy. Note that the rules for the interview are generally consulate-specific, so what is true or important at one consulate is not at another. The only point TBone brought up that I agree with, somewhat, refers to email. You will likely want to start emailing, but I can't say that writing lots of letters by hand isn't an alternative if, for some reason, that isn't an option.


06-04-2007 = TSC stamps postal return-receipt for I-129f.

06-11-2007 = NOA1 date (unknown to me).

07-20-2007 = Phoned Immigration Officer; got WAC#; where's NOA1?

09-25-2007 = Touch (first-ever).

09-28-2007 = NOA1, 23 days after their 45-day promise to send it (grrrr).

10-20 & 11-14-2007 = Phoned ImmOffs; "still pending."

12-11-2007 = 180 days; file is "between workstations, may be early Jan."; touches 12/11 & 12/12.

12-18-2007 = Call; file is with Division 9 ofcr. (bckgrnd check); e-prompt to shake it; touch.

12-19-2007 = NOA2 by e-mail & web, dated 12-18-07 (187 days; 201 per VJ); in mail 12/24/07.

01-09-2008 = File from USCIS to NVC, 1-4-08; NVC creates file, 1/15/08; to consulate 1/16/08.

01-23-2008 = Consulate gets file; outdated Packet 4 mailed to fiancee 1/27/08; rec'd 3/3/08.

04-29-2008 = Fiancee's 4-min. consular interview, 8:30 a.m.; much evidence brought but not allowed to be presented (consul: "More proof! Second interview! Bring your fiance!").

05-05-2008 = Infuriating $12 call to non-English-speaking consulate appointment-setter.

05-06-2008 = Better $12 call to English-speaker; "joint" interview date 6/30/08 (my selection).

06-30-2008 = Stokes Interrogations w/Ecuadorian (not USC); "wait 2 weeks; we'll mail her."

07-2008 = Daily calls to DOS: "currently processing"; 8/05 = Phoned consulate, got Section Chief; wrote him.

08-07-08 = E-mail from consulate, promising to issue visa "as soon as we get her passport" (on 8/12, per DHL).

08-27-08 = Phoned consulate (they "couldn't find" our file); visa DHL'd 8/28; in hand 9/1; through POE on 10/9 with NO hassles(!).

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Having evidence of two-way communication is vital; calls, emails, letters coming from petitioner and beneficiary. What's done is done, but there have been many conversations on whether it is beneficial to provide proof of money transfers. Generally petitioners do not include such evidence as it may be misconstrued. Be certain that your fiancée can adequately explain during the interview the precise nature and purpose of those exchanges.

Where in Thailand does she live that she does not receive mail?

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I am seeing so much conflicting advice here about the K-1. First some people say when you initially send the petition, don't worry about evidience of ongoing relationship. I have been told just to send evidence of meeting, like boarding passes, tickets, passport stamps, and photos. I have been under the impression that the evidence of ongoing relationship is only needed at the time of the interview. I am ready to send the petition in the next couple of days and i have printed out a few skype and yahoo conversations, and some sms history, but that's it concerning the evidence of ongoing relationship. And also the photos I am sending are dated from Jan 2010, and also from my most recent trip in Nov 2010. To me that would be considered evidence of an ongoing relationship.

Whether to front load the petition depends on the Embassy; it's country specific requirements. Since they are posting in the General K-1 forum, they will get the normal or general answer. If they were to post in their regional forum, they may get a different answer. To not know about your country-specific requirements is not being very prepared.


Phil (Lockport, near Chicago) and Alla (Lobnya, near Moscow)

As of Dec 7, 2009, now Zero miles apart (literally)!

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