Merry Christmas

[msheesha 548]

I think its who they hang around. If they hang around open minded muslims, they are sometimes too open minded about too much. If they hang around crazy mean salafis then you have to deal with the whole haram alik, burn the christmas tree and yell at the christians thing. All I can say is that it shocked the hell out of my normally unshockable 75 year old mom who has had dinner with imams and is quite worldly. Her only impression was if they cant be polite and kind to Americans, especially older people, then in her mind, they need to get their butt back home. She said I RESENT MY TAX DOLLARS SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHO HATE THIS COUNTRY< ITS PEOPLE AND TRADITIONS.... I know it sounds harsh, but when your 75 year old college educated mother wants to give a group of salafi muslims the whatfor, maybe someone should listen. Her granddaughter is an arab, from Morocco a place she has visited and remembers fondly and she doesnt have any patience for crazy harsh western hating muslims. Its ok to have a religion but being abusive to the people who live here and worked all their lives and then to immigrate here and act like some crazy taliban weirdo is in her opinion just not what we want here in the USA

I'm sure I'll regret asking, but how exactly are your mother's tax dollars supporting the people who didn't want to come to her party? And where is it they need to go home to? I'm Muslim & if I chose to not participate in another religion's traditions, I'm not exactly sure where I would need to "get (my) butt back home" to. Hmmmm.

Is Christmas an American holiday? "People who hate this country, its people, and traditions"? Are Americans only Christian Christmas celebrators? One ungracious party rejection and they hate America? Worldly indeed.

[Mithra 1,185]

Of all things to post about on such a festive occasion (regardless of religion).

it's possible this is simply who *you* hang around. you do somehow seem to be a magnet for undesirable friends, no?

it's also kind of disturbing that what seemed to be a very innocuous merry xmas thread is really about all... this.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Mithra

[msheesha 548]

Of all things to post about on such a festive occasion (regardless of religion).

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

this thread suspiciously seems a way to bash muslims.

[amysaid 9]

not sure what to say except

Not sure what adhering to your prescribed religious tenets has to do with being "radicalized." I guess the JW's must be hardcore radicalized!

[msheesha 548]

this thread suspiciously seems a way to bash muslims.

And, so why is it tolerated?

Isn't it almost always the case with op?

[sussemadel 16]

Might be a simple explanation..sometimes, and I'm not saying for sure in this case, but some women that have been so abused by their SO take it out on something or someone other than the (&*& who truly deserves the bashing.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

See bold above --

since you asked, here's the answer - It's You.

My husband and I - both Muslims - organized my (Christian) family's charity gift giving activities this holiday season. We also delivered them to the organization with some of my (Christian) family members & spent the day at the church and social service agency where one of my family members works (and where we sponsored several families to ensure their children had Christmas gifts this year).

My husband and I spent Christmas Eve last night with my mother, where she opened the Christmas gifts we had for her, and where my husband taught her to dance Moroccan style a little.

Today, we made a chicken vegetable tagine xmas dinner for one of my friends who couldn't spend time with family due to work this holiday. My husband commented that he was happy to make others happy on their holiday.

So, I also have to agree with the person who observed that you tend to associate with/attract undesirables. If you free yourself of that habit you are likely to have a much happier life. One in which you won't spend your time on Christmas complaining about someone not wanting to come to your party!

I have some amazing muslim friends that have eaten with my family, are nice to my mother.. I mean its not everybody...oh and ps...this particular person drinks, goes out, and was getting reined in because christmas eve fell on jumah this year and they were all given a hellfire and brimstone, dont socialise with the kuffar speech. I think if it fell on a monday, by monday the whole fire and brimstone, heathen kuffar speech would have disappated.

I am absolutely sure there are women on here who have not been able to celebrate once precious traditions because they are trying to appease religious muslims... No super religious salafi is going to tolerate any kind of shirk or trees etc.. I have been to christmas parties as the guest of a muslim who worked at the company ( kind of like a date but not exactly) and this guy was pretty strict so its not everyone. But there have got to be women who have not really been able to keep up traditions to make a more religious muslim happy.

I told this to a very close muslim female friend of mine who is kazahk and frankly she agreed with me. Being muslim in the former USSR , she had to be more tolerant of christians than a country where they are the minority. In Iraq, they arent even allowed to decorate for fear of reprisal so its extremely pollyanna to say every muslim out there is going to be tolerant of christmas or going to events. I had just not experienced it and it was the absolute bullying by the other muslim which shocked me. I am glad that most on the forum have had good experiences. I had up until now. My mother has another opinion. She feels there is alot less integration into american norms and now she is in london at the moment... her opinion is that mus

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have some amazing muslim friends that have eaten with my family, are nice to my mother.. I mean its not everybody...oh and ps...this particular person drinks, goes out, and was getting reined in because christmas eve fell on jumah this year and they were all given a hellfire and brimstone, dont socialise with the kuffar speech. I think if it fell on a monday, by monday the whole fire and brimstone, heathen kuffar speech would have disappated.

I am absolutely sure there are women on here who have not been able to celebrate once precious traditions because they are trying to appease religious muslims... No super religious salafi is going to tolerate any kind of shirk or trees etc.. I have been to christmas parties as the guest of a muslim who worked at the company ( kind of like a date but not exactly) and this guy was pretty strict so its not everyone. But there have got to be women who have not really been able to keep up traditions to make a more religious muslim happy.

I told this to a very close muslim female friend of mine who is kazahk and frankly she agreed with me. Being muslim in the former USSR , she had to be more tolerant of christians than a country where they are the minority. In Iraq, they arent even allowed to decorate for fear of reprisal so its extremely pollyanna to say every muslim out there is going to be tolerant of christmas or going to events. I had just not experienced it and it was the absolute bullying by the other muslim which shocked me. I am glad that most on the forum have had good experiences. I had up until now. My mother has another opinion. She feels there is alot less integration into american norms and now she is in london at the moment... her opinion is that mus

My kazahk friend who wears like a kazakh hijab actualy wished her non muslim friends on facebook a happy holiday. She said to me that in her opinion. some muslims confuse culture and traditions with Islam. Maybe its frightening to some muslims to be surrounded by angels and santas...I actually read that in Morocco that they have christmas moroccan markets in marakesch and morocco seems to be more pluralistic. Egypt has christians but they have faced horrible discrimination and Libya, Tunisia and Algeria have very few operating churches. I have actually been in some churches there and everything iconic was ripped from the walls except in Algiers where the Notre Dam of Africa is still lovingly cared for..I never had ever seen anything so weird but it may be the more relgious and salafi, the more severely against moderation the muslim will be, These guys wives wear full niqab in 100 degree weather so go figure..

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

See bold above --

since you asked, here's the answer - It's You.

My husband and I - both Muslims - organized my (Christian) family's charity gift giving activities this holiday season. We also delivered them to the organization with some of my (Christian) family members & spent the day at the church and social service agency where one of my family members works (and where we sponsored several families to ensure their children had Christmas gifts this year).

My husband and I spent Christmas Eve last night with my mother, where she opened the Christmas gifts we had for her, and where my husband taught her to dance Moroccan style a little.

Today, we made a chicken vegetable tagine xmas dinner for one of my friends who couldn't spend time with family due to work this holiday. My husband commented that he was happy to make others happy on their holiday.

So, I also have to agree with the person who observed that you tend to associate with/attract undesirables. If you free yourself of that habit you are likely to have a much happier life. One in which you won't spend your time on Christmas complaining about someone not wanting to come to your party!

I am glad you are so open minded...not everyone is

The last one from Qatar is about what I was hearing from guy number 2...the salafi

saying merry christmas is haram for muslims

Ahmed Deedats respectul answer about Christmas being a public holiday

fatwa against christmas in qatar

[msheesha 548]

Any of us could easily find quotes and examples from religions which would seem extreme or "radical". For example, I could post about the Westboro Baptist/Christian Church, which congregates and protests in vile ways against anyone/anything they deem liberal or not in line with their conserative beliefs. For example, they protested Elizabeth Edwards' funeral with signs that said "Thank God for Cancer". They also protest at fallen US soldiers' funerals, trying to disrupt the final goodbye for soldiers' family & loved ones.

I could look at that and say, "Is it me or are Christians in the US getting more radical?" AND, I could legitimately gripe that I didn't want my tax dollars paying for their right to protest and their need fo police protection where they protest. BUT, I don't & I wouldn't because I know that sweeping generalizations like that are ignorant, reactionary, and not very deep thinking.

Just a mere one example of how the thoughts and actions of a few in a religion other than Islam can be generalized, inflamed, and used for fear baiting. There are many other not related to Islam that easily pop into mind. (Pedophile priests = hmmm, aren't Catholics in the US getting more radically perverted?) I'm sure you won't get it because you're so blinded by your need to malign Muslims.

No response needed or wanted.

Edited December 28, 2010 by msheesha

[Boiler 43,455]

I think there is about 10 of them and none have migrated to my knowledge to Muslim countries.

[chri'stina 190]

If someone is devout to their faith, it'd seem normal to me if they didn't feel comfortable wishing someone a Merry Christmas/Happy Diwali/Happy Eid or participating in traditions associated if it had nothing to do with their faith.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Any of us could easily find quotes and examples from religions which would seem extreme or "radical". For example, I could post about the Westboro Baptist/Christian Church, which congregates and protests in vile ways against anyone/anything they deem liberal or not in line with their conserative beliefs. For example, they protested Elizabeth Edwards' funeral with signs that said "Thank God for Cancer". They also protest at fallen US soldiers' funerals, trying to disrupt the final goodbye for soldiers' family & loved ones.

I could look at that and say, "Is it me or are Christians in the US getting more radical?" AND, I could legitimately gripe that I didn't want my tax dollars paying for their right to protest and their need fo police protection where they protest. BUT, I don't & I wouldn't because I know that sweeping generalizations like that are ignorant, reactionary, and not very deep thinking.

Just a mere one example of how the thoughts and actions of a few in a religion other than Islam can be generalized, inflamed, and used for fear baiting. There are many other not related to Islam that easily pop into mind. (Pedophile priests = hmmm, aren't Catholics in the US getting more radically perverted?) I'm sure you won't get it because you're so blinded by your need to malign Muslims.

No response needed or wanted.

I dont think that realising that the majority of religious muslims would not partake in christmas in any way shape or form is reactionary. Its fact. Celebrating christmas is shirk to many as well as particpating in any way in christmas. Its shirk. Its forbidden and if you are celebrating christmas or giving gifts, while its a socially kind thing to do, there will be an imam who says its haram.

The first video is from the UK and the young guy said that he didnt see anything wrong with saying Merry Christmas. Then the imam explained that christmas is shirk . Allah didnt have a son and if you participate, you are doing shirk. Paint it anyway you want but its against islam to do any kind of partying, participating or even recognising christmas. Id like you to show me one scholar, imam or religious muslim that will tell you. Perhaps , muslim lites or more liberal muslim but religious ones will not nor will they let their kids participate in any of it. We as Americans are tolerant of all religions and frankly, muslims have alot more rights here to be strict than in France where hijab is forbidden or Tunisia where salafis or opressed or Algeria where even today they shut down a book fair because there were salafist books being sold.

Its shirk and bidda to celebrate christmas if you are a muslim.Its forbidden. Period. You can turn it into a da wah opportunity which is what you were doing as a muslim but its not accepted or ok in any muslim country to participate in it.You as a muslim are supposed to avoid christmas period.

From an American Imam 2010, American Council of Muslims

Brother in Islam, we are greatly impressed by your question, for its related to the affairs of the new Muslims. We seize the chance to earnestly implore Allah from the depths of our hearts to lead all perplexed men and women to the light of Islam, the true religion of Allah. We welcome all our new Muslim brothers and sisters to the fold of Islam.

As for your question, you have to bear in mind the fact that it is wrong to let your kids celebrate Christmas for many reasons. The most important one is that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) once saw people celebrating non-Islamic holidays, and he disapproved of the act and explained to them that Allah has given Muslims two better ones (i.e., `Eidul-Fitr and `Eidul-Adha). Therefore, we should obey the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and develop a Muslim identity in ourselves and our children.

In addition to this already sufficient reason, you have to dissociate your children from the Christmas spirit, even if you dont celebrate it for Jesus (peace be upon him). Actually, Jesus was not born on that day. It was the Roman god Mithras birthday that was celebrated on that day and the Christians made it Christs birthday to compete with the popular Roman holiday.

Therefore, your children should learn the truth, and at the same time, you can exchange gifts on other occasions, such as during the Islamic holidays, or on other occasions such as at the end of the school year. If you start celebrating Christmas with your children, even as a non-religious holiday, you will be setting a wrong example for them and you will be creating a conflict that they will suffer from in the future. They take you as their role model and you should live up to it. As insignificant as you may think it is, in reality, it is not.

Dear brother, try to get your children out of the holiday spirit by spending quality time with them, by traveling with them (if possible), and by decreasing their exposure to the holiday influence on TV and in shopping malls.

The above Fatwa is excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.islamicity.com

Nevertheless, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi,President of the Fiqh Council of North America, states:

I do agree that our little children are deeply affected with the festivities and glitter of this holiday. We should try to take them to some Islamic camps and conferences at this time and give them some other alternate programs and activities. But Muslim families should not have Christmas trees in their homes, nor should they put up lights inside or outside their homes at this time. We should tell our children that we are Muslims and this is not our holiday. This is the holiday of our Christian neighbors and friends. We may give greetings to our Christian friends and neighbors on their holiday, but we should not make it our own holiday.

Instead of celebrating Christmas, Dr. Siddiqi further says:

You can celebrate Ramadan and `Eids with lights and decoration of your home and exchange gifts with your children. This is very thoughtful, indeed. It is good to decorate our homes and masjids during Ramadan and for `Eids. It is mentioned in one of the Hadiths that even the heaven is especially decorated during the month of Ramadan. Allah Almighty closes the gates of Hell and opens the gates of Paradise during the month of Ramadan. We Muslims should give special attention to our own Islamic holidays. In this way our children will be attracted to our own celebrations rather than looking at others.

Unfortunately, there are some Muslims who do not pay any attention to Ramadan and `Eid. Some of them do not even come to `Eid prayers and even if they come, they do not take their day off from work. Thus their children have no idea about Islamic holidays or they think that Islam is a religion without any festivals and celebrations.

Jury is out....do a little digging and ask some more religious muslims their opinion and you will see that its not just a few that feel that its shirk to participate. Some will tell you they see nothing wrong with letting their American children not be allowed to participate in christmas things with their christian relatives. Many are very open but especially in divorced American/Mena households, it can be a familial tug of war between religions.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Hanging in there

[Crossed_fingers 128]

What exactly is your point? Your own quote on the "radicalized" and "anti-American" Muslim position states, "We may give greetings to our Christian friends and neighbors on their holiday, but we should not make it our own holiday." How is that radicalized, how is that anti-American, and how does that make you and your mother's sentiments to send them all "home" any less bigoted? Maybe all of the Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, agnostics, and atheist Americans should be required to put up Christmas trees and lights and go to parties to associate with unmarried and uncovered women and eat glazed ham and drink wine, too. Anything less, and they are all radicalized and anti-American and should be kicked out so real Americans' tax dollars no longer have to support them, right?

This pathetic thread will probably go on for days like all of Hanginginthere's other Muslim-bashing threads. In the meantime, I'm still interested in the answer to Msheesha's question: Why is this sort of thing constantly tolerated, particularly when it seems to frequently come from the same OP?