Sorry, Hamas, I'm Wearing Blue Jeans

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Escalation Charles. You don't need to rise to every comment you don't like. There is such a thing as self-restraint.

So sayeth he who hath not...

[ready4ONE 5,400]

No, that's politics, and I say that as a Palestinian. But, I'm also a cultural and legal historian, so it's my habit to take a long term, contextual view of events.

And try to do the same and recognize the same in regard to the Muslim world. You can reasonably remove a portion of blame on to political and cultural aspects of problems in the Islamic world but not entirely. And criticism can be healthy.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We understand very well they are still barbaric and sordid.

You're a bit harsh on Danno, aren't you?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[Dan and Judy 614]

No, that's politics, and I say that as a Palestinian. But, I'm also a cultural and legal historian, so it's my habit to take a long term, contextual view of events.

3 more questions

Was the girl that was getting caned for wearing pants being persecuted?

Are the palistinians in Gaza being persecuted by the Israelis?

Were the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in WWII?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

3 more questions

Was the girl that was getting caned for wearing pants being persecuted?

Women are often the immediate targets of authorities during periods of political turmoil and conflict in any society. It is easy for men who feel otherwise powerless to control and oppress women. In most societies, what is acceptable dress for women directly reflects the current societal mood toward womens' autonomy, or the lack of it. This has been true even in the US, which has swung from uptight Victorian garb, through the era of the Flapper Girl, the Earth Mother, mini skirts and bikinis, that accompanied the sexual liberation movement of the 60s, but left rape victims being tried in American courtrooms for "asking for it" via their dress.

What I'm saying, in a rather clinical manner, is that women all over the world face arbitrary cultural barriers that dictate the limits of their community participation. That is not meant to excuse the intrusion into her private sphere nor the punishment inflicted. It means that it doesn't surprise me at all because the language of clothing is highly regulated in much of the world to control women. The punishment varies, from place to place, but is not commonly so immediate or physical.

Are the palistinians in Gaza being persecuted by the Israelis?

Palestinians are being exploited by lots of groups, including some Arab nations. Israel is just the most obvious tormentor, due to proximity. Politics is still the primary divider, even more than religion; not all Palestinians are Muslim.

I am on my PDA and can't see the third question anymore, so I'll need to close here, for now.

Were the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in WWII?

[Dan and Judy 614]

Dan and Judy, on 19 December 2010 - 12:34 AM, said:

3 more questions

Was the girl that was getting caned for wearing pants being persecuted?

Women are often the immediate targets of authorities during periods of political turmoil and conflict in any society. It is easy for men who feel otherwise powerless to control and oppress women. In most societies, what is acceptable dress for women directly reflects the current societal mood toward womens' autonomy, or the lack of it. This has been true even in the US, which has swung from uptight Victorian garb, through the era of the Flapper Girl, the Earth Mother, mini skirts and bikinis, that accompanied the sexual liberation movement of the 60s, but left rape victims being tried in American courtrooms for "asking for it" via their dress.

What I'm saying, in a rather clinical manner, is that women all over the world face arbitrary cultural barriers that dictate the limits of their community participation. That is not meant to excuse the intrusion into her private sphere nor the punishment inflicted. It means that it doesn't surprise me at all because the language of clothing is highly regulated in much of the world to control women. The punishment varies, from place to place, but is not commonly so immediate or physical.

I think you are saying "No" the girl is not being persecuted. She was simply facing an arbitrary cultural barrier.

Are the palistinians in Gaza being persecuted by the Israelis?

Palestinians are being exploited by lots of groups, including some Arab nations. Israel is just the most obvious tormentor, due to proximity. Politics is still the primary divider, even more than religion; not all Palestinians are Muslim.

I think you are saying "No" the Palestinians are not being persecuted. They are being exploited.

The definition below allows for "Political persecution"

Would the Palestinians fall under that category?

Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic persecution, and political persecution, though there is naturally some overlap between these terms.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuted

I am on my PDA and can't see the third question anymore, so I'll need to close here, for now.

Were the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in WWII?

I think you are supposed to put one of these when you are telling a whopper like that.

Is this the first time you have taken the 5th in the VJ forum?

Im honored.

The lack of an answer here implies two possibilities.

1. You believe the Jews were persecuted and don't want to give them the satisfaction of admitting it.

2. You don't believe the Jews were persecuted but feel that stating that here would undermine your credibility.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I am on my PDA and can't see the third question anymore, so I'll need to close here, for now.

Were the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in WWII?

I think you are supposed to put one of these when you are telling a whopper like that.

Is this the first time you have taken the 5th in the VJ forum?

Im honored.

The lack of an answer here implies two possibilities.

1. You believe the Jews were persecuted and don't want to give them the satisfaction of admitting it.

2. You don't believe the Jews were persecuted but feel that stating that here would undermine your credibility.

Wow, I admit it, you fooled me. I actually thought you wanted straight answers, but you were only intent on setting me up. I was interested in honestly answering your questions, but for my time and effort, you call me a liar and stereotype me as a Jew hater simply because I'm Palestinian. Thanks a lot. I have a history of saying what I think whether its popular or not, so, if someone thinks they can label me a Jew hater, let them try to prove it.

Have a great day!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Wow, I admit it, you fooled me. I actually thought you wanted straight answers, but you were only intent on setting me up. I was interested in honestly answering your questions, but for my time and effort, you call me a liar and stereotype me as a Jew hater simply because I'm Palestinian. Thanks a lot. I have a history of saying what I think whether its popular or not, so, if someone thinks they can label me a Jew hater, let them try to prove it.

Have a great day!

Just out of curiosity, do you think the Jews were persecuted by the NAZI's ?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Why_Me

[james&olya 1,121]

Wow, I admit it, you fooled me. I actually thought you wanted straight answers, but you were only intent on setting me up. I was interested in honestly answering your questions, but for my time and effort, you call me a liar and stereotype me as a Jew hater simply because I'm Palestinian. Thanks a lot. I have a history of saying what I think whether its popular or not, so, if someone thinks they can label me a Jew hater, let them try to prove it.

Have a great day!

Some people are really stuck in their old attitudes. Your time was not wasted, many of us have followed your posts with interest and have learned much.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I hope she gets a Kevlar turtleneck for Christmas.

[Dan and Judy 614]

I am on my PDA and can't see the third question anymore, so I'll need to close here, for now.

Were the Jews persecuted by the Nazis in WWII?

I think you are supposed to put one of these when you are telling a whopper like that.

Is this the first time you have taken the 5th in the VJ forum?

Im honored.

The lack of an answer here implies two possibilities.

1. You believe the Jews were persecuted and don't want to give them the satisfaction of admitting it.

2. You don't believe the Jews were persecuted but feel that stating that here would undermine your credibility.

[quote name='Sofiyya' timestamp='1292781430' post='4359694']

Wow, I admit it, you fooled me. I actually thought you wanted straight answers, but you were only intent on setting me up. I was interested in honestly answering your questions, but for my time and effort, you call me a liar and stereotype me as a Jew hater simply because I'm Palestinian. Thanks a lot. I have a history of saying what I think whether its popular or not, so, if someone thinks they can label me a Jew hater, let them try to prove it.

Have a great day!

Sorry I dont have a PDA, I've never used one. Is it really possible to type on it if you can't read what's in the post?

I thought you were making a statement that was obviously untrue, with humerous intentions.

Similar to writing someone a letter and saying "I was going to enclose $50 but I have already sealed the envelope" Then you put the letter in the envelope and seal it.

I thought you were using that humerous device to avoid answering the question.

After I jumped to the conclusion that you were joshing us, I was left to wonder why someone who has an opinion on everything else and obviously is not afraid to speak their mind would suddenly

decline to answer a question.

sometimes what you don't say, says more than what you do say.

I was frankly surprised that you did not answer. I wasnt trying to trick you into saying something bad about the Jews. I was actually hoping to get you to say that somewhere sometime somebody had been persecuted. So I chose what I thought was an egregious example of persecution.

So were you actually unable to read the question or did you just choose to not answer.

The untapped audience that you mentioned earlier Is watching,

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Is Sofiyya a Holocaust Denier ?

Edited December 19, 2010 by Why_Me

[james&olya 1,121]

So were you actually unable to read the question or did you just choose to not answer.

The untapped audience that you mentioned earlier Is watching,

I think she has already made it clear about whether she could read the question on her PDA. Why do you have a need to challenge her again? If you wanted to apologize why clutter it up?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I think she has already made it clear about whether she could read the question on her PDA. Why do you have a need to challenge her again? If you wanted to apologize why clutter it up?

Because we think that she could read the question, not to mention she still hasn't answered it. She's a pro on here when it comes to avoiding / dodging.

[Dan and Judy 614]

I think she has already made it clear about whether she could read the question on her PDA. Why do you have a need to challenge her again? If you wanted to apologize why clutter it up?

Sometimes you can say something and people will misinterpet it. for instance

I said " Sorry I dont have a PDA, I've never used one."

You misinterpetted that as an apology when in fact it was just me feeling sorry that I cant afford a PDA.

Sofi is a brilliant rhetorician and she knows her subject

this is an example of one of her straight answers, and then me trying to guess what the answer was.

Was the girl that was getting caned for wearing pants being persecuted?

Women are often the immediate targets of authorities during periods of political turmoil and conflict in any society. It is easy for men who feel otherwise powerless to control and oppress women. In most societies, what is acceptable dress for women directly reflects the current societal mood toward womens' autonomy, or the lack of it. This has been true even in the US, which has swung from uptight Victorian garb, through the era of the Flapper Girl, the Earth Mother, mini skirts and bikinis, that accompanied the sexual liberation movement of the 60s, but left rape victims being tried in American courtrooms for "asking for it" via their dress.

What I'm saying, in a rather clinical manner, is that women all over the world face arbitrary cultural barriers that dictate the limits of their community participation. That is not meant to excuse the intrusion into her private sphere nor the punishment inflicted. It means that it doesn't surprise me at all because the language of clothing is highly regulated in much of the world to control women. The punishment varies, from place to place, but is not commonly so immediate or physical.

I think you are saying "No" the girl is not being persecuted. She was simply facing an arbitrary cultural barrier.

What she was trying desperately to avoid, was saying that the girl getting caned was being persecuted by muslims. She talked all around the subject without ever answering the question. I was a little dizzy when I got done reading it. I didn't disagree with a single thing she said but she never did answer the question.

A rule for politicians is "never answer the question they ask, answer the question you wanted them to ask" I'll say it again Sofi is brilliant at this and there is very little she says that I actually disagree with.

by the way she didn't say she couldnt read the question. this is what she said

"I am on my PDA and can't see the third question anymore, so I'll need to close here, for now."

Now if I use my scroll bar I can honestly tell you that I can't read that quote any more. Sofi chooses her words very carefully.

Anyway it was my conclusion that she was ducking the question.

Then she went with the "ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR" ploy.

followed by the "Its because Im Palistinian" trick

ending with the "Have a great Day" Im done with you close.

Im still concluding she dosnt want to answer the question.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Dan and Judy