Sorry, Hamas, I'm Wearing Blue Jeans

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Help me here. How long ago where the Crusades ?

The Crusades isn't over; its impact is deep within society's institutional memory and a great motivator within Christian communities that continue to view non-Christian faiths as competition. One of the reasons why Islam scares people like you to the point where you are compelled to demonize it and its adherents and poison the minds of non-Muslims is because many Christians and their institutions still feel extremely defensive toward any faith they perceive as a threat to their regional dominance. There is a long and demonstrable history of even secular nations using Christian missionaries as a tool against populations resisting colonization. California and Hawaii are two historical examples of that; Bush's faith based initiative programs helped Christian missionaries seek converts in Iraq. Benign Muslim organizations seeking converts to Islam in the west are mischaracterized as terrorist recruitment programs.

You dodge answers with questions. Iv'e seen you do it many times on many threads.

Nothing wrong with asking questions. You may actually learn something. You, in particular, could benefit from it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No. What she tries to make points are not the same. Yes the world back then was barbaric and sordid even but we have changed in society and have stopped the crazy ####### but Muslims still will not move forward. That is OK for them if they want but don't try to say they are misunderstood. We understand very well they are still barbaric and sordid. They want to live in the past then so be it but I like that we have evolved in our religion and become a true religion of peace. Our religion was founded by a kind soul even when he was treated with the ultimate barbarity he asked for forgiveness for those who did him horror. Muslim religion was founded by a barbarian who was a pedophile and disgusting man. That could still be OK but they never evolved in their religion and still treat their woman as slaves and in fact practice slavery in many of their countries. They want world domination and the U.S. to have the Muslim flag flying over the Capital. They are barbaric still but we are expected to understand and be amiable to them. Well I will not but I will extend a hand and even pray for any moderates that want to do the same for me. If whole countries allow the extreme fringe that wants to kill and destroy then don't be surprised if we slap them down. Want us to get along? Then try to get along with us but for sure we will not convert to Islam to do so. Either accept me as a Christian or not. I could care less because I am a Christian and will die one. The only two choices we have is to kill each other as a Muslim and a Christian or we can live among ourselves as a Muslim and a Christian and be civil.

Christianity is not a religion of peace. There are peaceful Christians, just as they are peaceful Muslims, but in each faith there are the means to justify evil acts. Hitler found them, Tim McVeigh found them, ampng others too numerous to list here. Comments on this board like yours and others who condone bombing countries "back into the Stone Age" in defense of Christianity prove that some aren't exactly practicing in the mode of Jesus.

Islam was not founded by Muhammad, it was founded by God and its first prophet was Adam. Since we share prophets with Christianity and Judaism, we both have heroes who engaged in incest, murder, and/or took young brides and treated women like chattel. Many scholars believe that Mary was 12-14 years old when she gave birth to Jesus. Does that make God a pedophile?

You say you're a Christian, but you have never sounded like one here. Your heart is full of hate and division. If that is what you learn from your book, pray for yourself first, and may God help you.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Dan and Judy 614]

Beause, I don't respond out of a sense of persecution. I respond because I know I can reach people who don't post but want to learn. The bigots who post garbage are merely vehicles allowing me to reach others who may think the same thoughts they do, but don't post them. On any board. more people read than post. They are an untapped audience.

So you feel that Muslims in general are persecuted but you personally are not persecuted?

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

I never look at profiles so I don't know what information can be found there - anyway, you're little late to the party charlie, someone posted it, or did you miss that?

just thought i'd point out a way to see it without logging out. or did you miss that?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

So criticizing Hamas is a bigoted way to slur all Muslims? Don't think so.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

just thought i'd point out a way to see it without logging out. or did you miss that?

I think you need to stop with the baiting Charles.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So you feel that Muslims in general are persecuted but you personally are not persecuted?

I don't even feel that Muslims in general are persecuted, but I know I'm not. Negative opinions dont rise to the level of persecution, and that's what we're sealing with here.

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

I think you need to stop with the baiting Charles.

that's the exact same words she used. if you're accusing me then you need to accuse her too.

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah, the theory that there is a global level playing field with everyone having the same access to wealth, education, and franchise. Magic

The conditions that led to the crusade are indeed many and varied but the JUSTIFICATION was at least in part an interpretation of christianity that allowed for the barbaric and violent treatment of those who did not subscribe to christianity. Quite rightly, christians today wish to disassociate themselves from that, and other despicable acts right down to the most recent history when today's pope has recently distanced himself from an incredibly barbaric practice of insisting that catholics must not use condoms even when there is a significant and real health risk, particularly amongst African catholics faced with skyrocketing numbers of citizens infected with the HIV virus.

How hard is it to understand that Al Quaida and the like are utilizing the same type of justifications? How hard it is to understand that that justification is not shared by the majority of muslims today? War, violence, terrorism, ill treatment of women are not tenets of the muslim religion any more than they are tenets of christianity. All the suggestions that the muslim religion is a religion of war, segregation, barbarism promotes a very jaundiced view of its adherents, most of whom are no such thing.

I may not agree with some of the orthodox practices relating to muslim women (as an example), but I don't believe that this is a necessary result of an interpretation of the musilm religion itself but rather is predominantly down to the cultural traditions where these women reside. Those who adopt these practices in the West are no more threatening and dangerous than those orthodox jews and christians in the west who adopt the self same practices. Covering women is not exclusive to the muslim religion nor is defining the role of women in the home, deference to a male head of household, external displays of modesty and segregation of women outside of the home with an attendant reluctance to allow women to follow a career beyond childbearing and rearing. I can hear that in the voice of some of the so called christian men on these boards when they pour scorn on 'feminism' truth to tell, and the view that women should return to the role they played in 50's society, and how 'defeminised' women are and how 'feminised men are in the USA today, nevermind those christians (and some atheists and agnostics) who wish to return to a blblical judicial system with an eye for an eye and the desire for treating criminal offenders in the most barbaric and inhuman fashion, once they have committed a heinous crime of course that renders them subhuman and of course deserving of such treatment. That these people can't see the incredible two faced arguments they present is frankly amazing, but yet every day more examples of this endemic hypocrisy are posted with not a trace or irony. It's fascinating really.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

that's the exact same words she used. if you're accusing me then you need to accuse her too.

Escalation Charles. You don't need to rise to every comment you don't like. There is such a thing as self-restraint.

[Ban Hammer 12,842]

Escalation Charles. You don't need to rise to every comment you don't like. There is such a thing as self-restraint.

physician, heal thyself.

[Peikko 1,575]

Charles was 'just trying to help'? I believe that, no attempt at point scoring at all

Edited December 18, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Dan and Judy 614]

I don't even feel that Muslims in general are persecuted, but I know I'm not. Negative opinions dont rise to the level of persecution, and that's what we're sealing with here.

How about the un-wavering support of the Israeli displacement of the Palistinians, or taking over two muslim countries in the last 10 years with thousands of Muslim causualties. Is that persecution?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

physician, heal thyself.

Oh boy...

[Sofiyya 1,687]

How about the un-wavering support of the Israeli displacement of the Palistinians, or taking over two muslim countries in the last 10 years with thousands of Muslim causualties. Is that persecution?

No, that's politics, and I say that as a Palestinian. But, I'm also a cultural and legal historian, so it's my habit to take a long term, contextual view of events.