Commitment Ceremony

[strawberryblonde 0]

Hey all,

My fiancée and I are planning a 'commitment ceremony' for January 2011 for ourselves and immediate family. We don't want our wedding to be dependent on paperwork and the US Govt. We are about to file our petition for the K-1 Visa application and know that he probably won't be able to move to the US (from Canada) until springtime. After all our paperwork comes though we will go to the court house to make it legal. But, we've been long distance for years and can deal with this.

Here is my question:

When coming to the US for our 'ceremony' can his relatives be open about the purpose of their visit? A wedding?

Do we need to hide our status on social networking sites (facebook)? Because we will consider ourselves married even if it isn't recognized by the govt.

Not post pictures of our ceremony or send announcements to friends and extended family?

Hope you all have some input on this.

Regards,

Strawberryblonde

[CBM 14]

I'm not sure about the specifics of your questions, re: facebook status and pictures, etc.... but consulates have been known to deny K1 applicants on the basis that they are already "Married" after having such a ceremony.

I think the rule of thumb is, if the gov't could possibly construe it as a wedding or valid marriage, don't do it, or just get married for real and file the CR-1.

I'm not sure how that would pan out in Canada, because Canadian culture doesn't have a big engagement ceremony that could be construed as a wedding.... so I guess my advice would be to NOT change your facebook status to that of "married", since you are not, and you don't want a simple thing like fb status to come back and haunt you in this process... and if you plan to wear a white dress and all the rest, if I were playing it safe, I personally wouldn't post pictures.

That's just me, though. You should get lots of other opinions.

Oh, and what part of Canada are you/he in? You mentioned moving to the US in the spring... I wouldn't count on that, especially if you'll be interviewing in Montreal. We filed out i129F May 24th, just got Packet 3 sent back to Montreal, and are currently anticipating March-ish for an interview. Springtime might be more feasible if you are going through Vancouver. Oh, I should add - our K1 petition approval took almost 5 months, which is typical right NOW for CSC, but is not generally the case. Your petition could definitely move through the service centres a lot quicker.

Anyway, hopefully someone else comes along and has a better answer!

Good luck!

[Waltlaw 0]

I'm the Canadian in this relationship :-). I'll be interviewing in Calgary.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not sure about the specifics of your questions, re: facebook status and pictures, etc.... but consulates have been known to deny K1 applicants on the basis that they are already "Married" after having such a ceremony.

I think the rule of thumb is, if the gov't could possibly construe it as a wedding or valid marriage, don't do it, or just get married for real and file the CR-1.

I'm not sure how that would pan out in Canada, because Canadian culture doesn't have a big engagement ceremony that could be construed as a wedding.... so I guess my advice would be to NOT change your facebook status to that of "married", since you are not, and you don't want a simple thing like fb status to come back and haunt you in this process... and if you plan to wear a white dress and all the rest, if I were playing it safe, I personally wouldn't post pictures.

That's just me, though. You should get lots of other opinions.

Oh, and what part of Canada are you/he in? You mentioned moving to the US in the spring... I wouldn't count on that, especially if you'll be interviewing in Montreal. We filed out i129F May 24th, just got Packet 3 sent back to Montreal, and are currently anticipating March-ish for an interview. Springtime might be more feasible if you are going through Vancouver. Oh, I should add - our K1 petition approval took almost 5 months, which is typical right NOW for CSC, but is not generally the case. Your petition could definitely move through the service centres a lot quicker.

Anyway, hopefully someone else comes along and has a better answer!

Good luck!

[Inky 1,111]

There are only two places to interview in, Montreal and Vancouver.

[CQ & CS 2]

There are only two places to interview in, Montreal and Vancouver.

Calgary will be processed thru Vancouver and it takes about 5 months in my case. We file in Feb 2010 and i got the Visa on hand in July 2010.

[baron555 934]

I'll sound harsh but maybe it will be worth it.

What is more important to you and your fiance(e)?

Your loving future together or making a scene for others, namely your family and friends?

Why in the world would you even consider to jeopordize all just to pretend that you are married when immigration has specifically stated, for this visa class, that you can not be married?

It makes no sense to me.

My family and friends totally understand that with our international relationship and to follow the immigrations rules, we had to do a civil ceremony once she came over and that we would have some sort of big Pow-Wow later. They only want what will bring us happiness and more importantly, our continued future happiness. They would not consider themselves part of the family or a friend if they felt any different.

The bad that can happen is you are denied at the interview and have to wait another year while you petition for a CR-1 (married) visa. The worst is they declare you are attempting visa fraud and impose a ban. It's your life.

Edited November 17, 2010 by baron555

[qcmeetsnc 1]

I'll sound harsh but maybe it will be worth it.

What is more important to you and your fiance(e)?

Your loving future together or making a scene for others, namely your family and friends?

Why in the world would you even consider to jeopordize all just to pretend that you are married when immigration has specifically stated, for this visa class, that you can not be married?

It makes no sense to me.

My family and friends totally understand that with our international relationship and to follow the immigrations rules, we had to do a civil ceremony once she came over and that we would have some sort of big Pow-Wow later. They only want what will bring us happiness and more importantly, our continued future happiness. They would not consider themselves part of the family or a friend if they felt any different.

The bad that can happen is you are denied at the interview and have to wait another year while you petition for a CR-1 (married) visa. The worst is they declare you are attempting visa fraud and impose a ban. It's your life.

Amen to that! No, this whole process isn't romantic as it is filled with waiting and worrying. I wouldn't add to that stress by doing something that would get me in trouble. That's why my new hubby and I had a civil wedding with just our 2 witnesses after my POE. No family present, not even my two grown children. Now that my AOS status is pending, we can plan on having a ceremony that will be way more meaningful, without having to worry about keeping it hush-hush.

Good luck to you!

[baron555 934]

Amen to that! No, this whole process isn't romantic as it is filled with waiting and worrying. I wouldn't add to that stress by doing something that would get me in trouble. That's why my new hubby and I had a civil wedding with just our 2 witnesses after my POE. No family present, not even my two grown children. Now that my AOS status is pending, we can plan on having a ceremony that will be way more meaningful, without having to worry about keeping it hush-hush.

Good luck to you!

Tnx for agreeing. What is also very amazing, just my personal observation, is the majority of these types of discussions involve folks from countries where either side can easily visit back and forth. Now take my fiance's country for example....will her family be able to jet on over within a couple of hours for a ceremony here in the US? Nope, not gonna happen, never. Can my family jet on over in a couple hours for a ceremony there? Nope, too expensive and not gonna happen, never. Many should count their blessings because many of us don't even have those opportunities they have. Not bitching about my circumstances, my wife and I and our families just deal with it in our own way.

[HeatDeath 430]

At every single point in this process, up to and including the PoE, your fiance will be asked "Are you legally free to marry?" Yes, the CBP officer will ask him this at the actual border crossing. If at any point he fails to answer "Yes, I am single, and therefore legally free to marry" [or words equivalent] with a straight face and totally sincere body language, your K-1 visa application (and the visa itself) will cease to exist, and this whole process will have been an enormous waste of time and money.

"Considering yourself to be married", when you have to get past a both a Consular Officer AND a CBP officer [both trained to spot lies and evasive body language] by saying you are not married, is probably not a good plan.

Just sayin'.

Absolutely I would NOT update facebook.

Advising visiting relatives to be evasive could possibly get them in trouble, but having them be open is a mediocre-to-bad idea too.

Edited November 17, 2010 by HeatDeath

[Waltlaw 0]

I want to thank everyone for their honest feedback. Based on what folks here were warning us about, we consulted with 2 laywers: one a colleague of a lawyer-friend and the other an immigration lawyer through JustAnswer.com. Their feedback was consistent. The JustAnswer lawyer responded as follows:

"The general rule is that any legal or religious ceremony that is recognized in your home country would be recognized by the US Consulate to be a marriage for immigration purposes.

If there are not existing precedents that interpret this ceremony as not a marriage for immigration purposes, the US Consulate would probably be more inclined to consider that you are married and require that your fiancee/spouse petition for you as K-3 spousal visa. The majority of immigration laws favor a conservative interpretation so the US Consulate and USCIS will generally decide cases based on this perspective even if there is reasoanble contrary legal argument.

The K-1 visa would most likely be denied or delayed so unless there is a very compelling reason to have the ceremony, you and your fiancee may unintentionally delay or complicate your immigration to the US."

Regrettably, we have postponed our ceremony until the K1 Visa has been approved. Fortunately, we had planned a very small ceremony, so it only required about 6 emails and 6 phone calls.

[Anh map 2,098]

I want to thank everyone for their honest feedback. Based on what folks here were warning us about, we consulted with 2 laywers: one a colleague of a lawyer-friend and the other an immigration lawyer through JustAnswer.com. Their feedback was consistent. The JustAnswer lawyer responded as follows:

"The general rule is that any legal or religious ceremony that is recognized in your home country would be recognized by the US Consulate to be a marriage for immigration purposes.

If there are not existing precedents that interpret this ceremony as not a marriage for immigration purposes, the US Consulate would probably be more inclined to consider that you are married and require that your fiancee/spouse petition for you as K-3 spousal visa. The majority of immigration laws favor a conservative interpretation so the US Consulate and USCIS will generally decide cases based on this perspective even if there is reasoanble contrary legal argument.

The K-1 visa would most likely be denied or delayed so unless there is a very compelling reason to have the ceremony, you and your fiancee may unintentionally delay or complicate your immigration to the US."

Regrettably, we have postponed our ceremony until the K1 Visa has been approved. Fortunately, we had planned a very small ceremony, so it only required about 6 emails and 6 phone calls.

No one says that you can't have a party and stand in front of the group and exchange promises. Just have the officiant be someone that is not licensed/approved/allowed to perform legal weddings.

[Waltlaw 0]

Anh:

The ceremony we had planned did not have an officiant. It was simply going to be an exchange of vows between us in front of a small group of people. We know that the ceremony is not legally binding, but as the lawyer says, immigration tends to take a conservative position on wedding-like ceremonies.

No one says that you can't have a party and stand in front of the group and exchange promises. Just have the officiant be someone that is not licensed/approved/allowed to perform legal weddings.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Waltlaw

[Anh map 2,098]

How will the adjudicator know what you said to each other at this gathering? You had a small gathering. You stood up in front and said that you are looking forward to your life's journey together. You won't be having anyone pronounce / declare you "married." If the laws and customs of Canada do not permit two people to marry themselves without an official presiding you should not have an issue.

If you hold yourselves forth as a married couple that is where the complications occur. Or if you submit photos of yourselves dressed in traditional wedding attire that may elicit further questions.

I'd always advise folks to take the safest, straightest path. Use your best judgement and have a fun party. Even if you don't stand up in front.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Anh map

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I want to thank everyone for their honest feedback. Based on what folks here were warning us about, we consulted with 2 laywers: one a colleague of a lawyer-friend and the other an immigration lawyer through JustAnswer.com. Their feedback was consistent. The JustAnswer lawyer responded as follows:

"The general rule is that any legal or religious ceremony that is recognized in your home country would be recognized by the US Consulate to be a marriage for immigration purposes.

If there are not existing precedents that interpret this ceremony as not a marriage for immigration purposes, the US Consulate would probably be more inclined to consider that you are married and require that your fiancee/spouse petition for you as K-3 spousal visa. The majority of immigration laws favor a conservative interpretation so the US Consulate and USCIS will generally decide cases based on this perspective even if there is reasoanble contrary legal argument.

The K-1 visa would most likely be denied or delayed so unless there is a very compelling reason to have the ceremony, you and your fiancee may unintentionally delay or complicate your immigration to the US."

Regrettably, we have postponed our ceremony until the K1 Visa has been approved. Fortunately, we had planned a very small ceremony, so it only required about 6 emails and 6 phone calls.

Unfortunately I think this is the best idea. My personal plan (before family health issues intervened) was to have a "reception" in Australia following the legal ceremony in the US. This way you're doing everything that you need to for immigration, and still doing it your way.

Regarding this: "We don't want our wedding to be dependent on paperwork and the US Govt." many of us completely understand that... but even in your home country there are rules, waiting times etc so in many ways you are dependant on the government... Whether you do your private ceremony before or after the legal one, it doesn't necessarily mean it's been dictated by immigration or the government. It is to some extent but lets say you want to get married at some gorgeous restaurant that's booked out, you would usually wait till it's available. With immigration, while the documents might take some time, you have 6 months to activate the visa, you have 3 months to get married. You can plan your wedding AROUND immigration, but there's still 9 months there for YOU to make the decisions on when, how etc.

If you wait until your K1 is approved (or even the interview scheduled) you can give people some decent notice of an impending wedding so they can come to the US for it. Or you can travel over immediately, have a small civil ceremony, then apply for AOS, get your AP and fly back to Canada to have your other reception there. There are many decisions that YOU can make around your life, just so happens that immigration is a part of your life (for now ).

[Yellowhead 12]

I want to thank everyone for their honest feedback. Based on what folks here were warning us about, we consulted with 2 laywers: one a colleague of a lawyer-friend and the other an immigration lawyer through JustAnswer.com. Their feedback was consistent. The JustAnswer lawyer responded as follows:

"The general rule is that any legal or religious ceremony that is recognized in your home country would be recognized by the US Consulate to be a marriage for immigration purposes.

If there are not existing precedents that interpret this ceremony as not a marriage for immigration purposes, the US Consulate would probably be more inclined to consider that you are married and require that your fiancee/spouse petition for you as K-3 spousal visa. The majority of immigration laws favor a conservative interpretation so the US Consulate and USCIS will generally decide cases based on this perspective even if there is reasoanble contrary legal argument.

The K-1 visa would most likely be denied or delayed so unless there is a very compelling reason to have the ceremony, you and your fiancee may unintentionally delay or complicate your immigration to the US."

Regrettably, we have postponed our ceremony until the K1 Visa has been approved. Fortunately, we had planned a very small ceremony, so it only required about 6 emails and 6 phone calls.

The way I see it, you both know you are committed to each other and that is what matters most. "married" as a term, or a ceremony is simply a formality. I think it is in your best interest that you postponed the process. This way the ceremony will not be accompanied with stress about its effect on your K-1 process. Now you can relax, and you will know that your family from Canada can freely visit the USA when you do get married. With regard to the question about them freely traveling to the USA, you don't need a visa to travel and they don't usually care who you are going to visit. I doubt you would have had issues with this.

Also, please fill in your timeline and profile information as best as possible. It will let us help you with any questions you have, including this one

I'm the Canadian in this relationship :-). I'll be interviewing in Calgary.

Thanks for the input.

Calgary consulate does not process family based immigration cases. Vancouver is Montreal it is...