Russian Citizenship for US Born Child

[SMR 368]

I brought this up before and got a couple good links. We are moving through this process but things have been slow simply because it takes the state of NY a while to get a newborn's birth certificate on file.

I am wondering if anyone here has tried to get Russian citizenship for the child of a Russian and an American parent and how everything went.

Also, my wife is concerned since we never changed her name on her passport but put her married name, the one that is on the Green Card and all her US documents, on the birth certificate. Do you think this will make trouble when trying to get Russian citizenship for our son? Any thoughts?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I brought this up before and got a couple good links. We are moving through this process but things have been slow simply because it takes the state of NY a while to get a newborn's birth certificate on file.

I am wondering if anyone here has tried to get Russian citizenship for the child of a Russian and an American parent and how everything went.

Also, my wife is concerned since we never changed her name on her passport but put her married name, the one that is on the Green Card and all her US documents, on the birth certificate. Do you think this will make trouble when trying to get Russian citizenship for our son? Any thoughts?

Alla has been helping a young Russian girl here with interpretation services and this is one of the things she is doing, Her daughter is US born Russian/American. She has been working with the consulate in New York. It seems to not be a problem. I do not know the details but know it is possible. I do not think the name issue will be a problem, just show the name change with your marriage certificate.

[Used to be broken 147]

Alla has been helping a young Russian girl here with interpretation services and this is one of the things she is doing, Her daughter is US born Russian/American. She has been working with the consulate in New York. It seems to not be a problem. I do not know the details but know it is possible. I do not think the name issue will be a problem, just show the name change with your marriage certificate.

U.S Policy on Dual Nationality

According to the State Department, “the U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause.” Such problems are:

* conflicting claims on a dual citizen of the U.S. by both countries; for example, national service

* conflicting allegiances to both countries.

For many years, countries were reluctant to recognize dual nationality and had a policy of automatic withdrawal of citizenship if an individual took an oath of allegiance to another country. For the U.S., swearing allegiance to a foreign country is still a means by which an individual can lose their U.S. citizenship. However, as the laws of other countries continue to relax in this regard, dual nationality is becoming more common. But it should never be taken lightly. The conference of U.S. citizenship is coveted throughout the world, and the oath of allegiance is uncompromising.

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Important note: As stated, the rules of citizenship are complex and there are many exceptions to these general rules. Anyone needing citizenship advice of any kind should contact an attorney that specializes in immigration and citizenship.

Sources

United States Citizenship and Immigration Services

Dual Citizenship FAQ:Dual Nationality and United States Law

Edited October 15, 2010 by brokenfamily

[Used to be broken 147]

Do you think this will make trouble when trying to get Russian citizenship for our son? Any thoughts?

Sorry for the second post, the main "problem" I think you could run into with getting another passport for you son, not now but but going forward if you decide to get dual citizenship for your male child is; trips to Russia in the future while your son is a young man.

Not sure if Russia is still a "mandatory conscription" country and even if its not with changing political situation in the future it could become one again if that program has currently been suspended. So a "vacation" back home to visit the grandparents some time between the time he hits 17-27 could result in a bad outcome if he has not complied with their conscription mandates.

While it might be necessary by Russian law because of where his parents were born to travel in and out of Russia on visits, I would keep this in the back of my mind when he becomes draft age, as it could turn into a nightmare.

Edited October 15, 2010 by brokenfamily

[VanessaTony 3,567]

U.S Policy on Dual Nationality

According to the State Department, “the U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause.” Such problems are:

* conflicting claims on a dual citizen of the U.S. by both countries; for example, national service

* conflicting allegiances to both countries.

For many years, countries were reluctant to recognize dual nationality and had a policy of automatic withdrawal of citizenship if an individual took an oath of allegiance to another country. For the U.S., swearing allegiance to a foreign country is still a means by which an individual can lose their U.S. citizenship. However, as the laws of other countries continue to relax in this regard, dual nationality is becoming more common. But it should never be taken lightly. The conference of U.S. citizenship is coveted throughout the world, and the oath of allegiance is uncompromising.

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Important note: As stated, the rules of citizenship are complex and there are many exceptions to these general rules. Anyone needing citizenship advice of any kind should contact an attorney that specializes in immigration and citizenship.

Sources

United States Citizenship and Immigration Services

Dual Citizenship FAQ:Dual Nationality and United States Law

I don't understand why you posted this. Dual citizenship is entirely possible for USC's depending on each country involved. The US allows someone to become a citizen of another country in that they will not revoke USC if you do so, but they still consider the person first and foremost a US citizen. Whether the other country allows you to retain it's citizenship is therefore the important factor to consider.

Australia, the UK and America all "allow" dual nationality (among many others), they just do not recognise it. They do not make you give up your citizenship of one country when you obtain another.

Some countries like Germany require a certain process in order to retain German citizenship if you gain another citizenship. Some countries do not allow dual nationality at all and by becoming a USC you would have your home countries citizenship revoked.

Obviously as Gary and Alla have experience with Russia in particular, if they say that dual nationality is possible, I trust it is.

[eekee 182]

The issue with dual nationality is that it could impede the US's ability to help you on foreign soil. So if your son got into trouble in Russia, the United States would be powerless to help him. That's why they do not encourage dual citizenship.

And yes, there is military conscription still.

[Used to be broken 147]

I don't understand why you posted this.

The OP asked on an open forum if anyone had any thoughts..

Dual citizenship is entirely possible for USC's depending on each country involved. The US allows someone to become a citizen of another country in that they will not revoke USC if you do so, but they still consider the person first and foremost a US citizen.

I never said its not possible to have dual citizenship.

Whether the other country allows you to retain it's citizenship is therefore the important factor to consider.

IMHO is one important factor to consider but there are others.

Australia, the UK and America all "allow" dual nationality (among many others), they just do not recognise it. They do not make you give up your citizenship of one country when you obtain another.

Some countries like Germany require a certain process in order to retain German citizenship if you gain another citizenship. Some countries do not allow dual nationality at all and by becoming a USC you would have your home countries citizenship revoked.

I am not saying otherwise

Obviously as Gary and Alla have experience with Russia in particular, if they say that dual nationality is possible, I trust it is.

I am glad you have confidence in the opinion of Gary and Alla, I also think they have valuable input and comments that they contribute and I also enjoy reading them.

I am truly sorry you found my post to be of inferior quality to Gary and Alla's opinion, I will try not to let that happen again.

Edited October 15, 2010 by brokenfamily

[Used to be broken 147]

Good luck on your stuff to original OP

Edited October 15, 2010 by brokenfamily

[slim 1,517]

you found my post to be of inferior quality to Gary and Alla's opinion, I will try not to let that happen again.

Head over to OT. You'll find plenty of folks over there who care very little for Gary or Alla's opinions.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

The OP asked on an open forum if anyone had any thoughts..

But you didn't have a thought. I was referring to your post which was a copy of information from a link, and while you stated where it came from, you didn't actually provide the link. I started my reply to your "dual national" post before you then posted an actual opinion.

I never said its not possible to have dual citizenship.

You never said anything. You posted a copied information from a website. I expanded on the information from the website information you posted by using my personal situation as a dual national and how I've had no issues.

IMHO is one important factor to consider but there are others.

Of course, but as the child is born American, and his parents LIVE in America, one would assume ensuring he retains his USC is important and the first important thing to find out. Then you can look at the rest of the info.

I am not saying otherwise

Again you never actually SAID anything. You didn't type it either. You posted information from a link about dual nationality. Which, incidentally, wasn't actually the question posed by the OP. My comment regarding dual nationality was addressing the information you copied and pasted, not to you. My only comment to you was why post the information regarding dual citizenship.. and what I failed to mention was "why post this and then not offer your own opinion of what the copied information means". Again, at the time of posting my reply, you had not added the other post with your personal opinion. I was responding directly to you just copying and pasting information then offering no insight into said information.

I am glad you have confidence in the opinion of Gary and Alla, I also think they have valuable input and comments that they contribute and I also enjoy reading them.

I am truly sorry you found my post to be of inferior quality to Gary and Alla's opinion, I will try not to let that happen again.

I never said I didn't value your opinion. At the time of me posting, you didn't offer one! You simply copied and pasted information from a website. I also never said they were right about everything, but given I'm Australian and British, I have knowledge of those citizenships. As Alla is currently dealing with a Russian girl in the same situation, one would assume she knows more than me which is why I said I assume they know more about Russia.

[sea-monkey 13]

Why would you want to give the kid citizenship to Russia?

[visaveteran 1]

If the intention is for dual citizenship, it seems possible by quietly proceeding as neither country rejects or condones the practice. But certainly, conflicts of national interest could occur over time, placing someone in the middle of a mess or difficult choice. There will be risks and trade-offs under certain possible circumstances. Whenever there is more than one passport, things can get complicated.

My own issue with Russian citizenship is that Russia has a military draft. It is possible to buy out with the aid of a Russian doctor who will certify someone to be "unfit" for a very large sum of money. Last rate I heard was $1000 or more. If the boy enters the military he will be beaten and mistreated routinely.

One negative scenario could be that if a dual citizenship male visited or went to school in Russia after he turned 18, he could be forced into the military...perhaps directly from the airport if he was merely visiting. As Russia continues to rebuild and modernize its military, more focus will be on military service. Parents would have to pay a large sum of money to free him from duty if that was their wish. But if the Russian authorities know he has ties to the US, who knows what the KGB would do with him.

Just some food for thought.

[eekee 182]

Actually, university students get an exemption until they graduate. If you go for a PhD/Russian equivalent, you never have to serve.

[Used to be broken 147]

But you didn't have a thought. I was referring to your post which was a copy of information from a link, and while you stated where it came from, you didn't actually provide the link. I started my reply to your "dual national" post before you then posted an actual opinion.

I have lots of thoughts on this topic, and I didn't mean to post the entire text I meant to post the link, and then post my "opinion" in the same post, but as for reason.. I think people should consider the full range of benefits consequences of any immigration related action before they take it.

You never said anything. You posted a copied information from a website. I expanded on the information from the website information you posted by using my personal situation as a dual national and how I've had no issues.

I get it, however my personal experience with dual nationality directly relates to some of the issues I talked about in my convoluted second post, hit the button before I meant to.

Of course, but as the child is born American, and his parents LIVE in America, one would assume ensuring he retains his USC is important and the first important thing to find out. Then you can look at the rest of the info.

I think its a bad idea to assume anything related to Immigration matters and citizenship issues. A$$-U-Me. Yesterday someone who assumed he could bring his wife here on a tourist VISA and adjust status posted she got turned around at the POE sent back and now a simple matter is a misrep case. CBP didn't like his assumption.

Again you never actually SAID anything. You didn't type it either. You posted information from a link about dual nationality. Which, incidentally, wasn't actually the question posed by the OP. My comment regarding dual nationality was addressing the information you copied and pasted, not to you. My only comment to you was why post the information regarding dual citizenship.. and what I failed to mention was "why post this and then not offer your own opinion of what the copied information means".

The first thing I thought when I saw the question is there is at least a handful of things to consider going forward to consider because there could be consequences in the future related to dual citizenship, and provided that info from the link I found and screwed up posting. And it doesn't matter what I think or they think or Gary or Alla thinks, it matters what the law is and what the government agencies of both countries think, so it makes sense in my mind to have this information up front to avoid nasty complications in the future.

I also never said they were right about everything, but given I'm Australian and British, I have knowledge of those citizenships. As Alla is currently dealing with a Russian girl in the same situation, one would assume she knows more than me which is why I said I assume they know more about Russia.

I am not sure a Russian girl is in the same situation as a Russian male because as far as I know and I could be wrong, Russian women are not subject to mandatory military conscription. I think we are coming at this from two different points of view, I perhaps take a more cautious approach to questions of dual citizenship.

There are in fact other consequences or impacts of this decision that in the future could be problematic beyond the military and consulate assistance issues like Tax impact and questions of national allegiance. The latter would effect not only the dual citizen but his her close family members if they have security clearances or wish to obtain them in the future. These would not come into play in the case of dual Australian/British citizenship in the same way they would effect someone with FSU/US dual citizenship.

Edited October 15, 2010 by brokenfamily

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

All this is hogwash. There, I said it!

The kid is BORN with both citizenships. He doesn't have to choose, he doesn't have to take an Oath of Allegiance, nothing of that. Due to jus sangius he's a Russian and a US citizen. I have no clue how that is documented in Russia, but it's only a matter of documenting it, not applying for it, not discussing the merits and downfalls of dual citizenship, none of it.

Why would the parents make sure their child has Russian citizenship? Because you can't put a price tag on citizenship. The ability to move and live wherever one wants is priceless. Do YOU know what living in Russia will be like in half a Century when, perhaps, half of Americans point at their shopping kart when asked about their most priced possession?

Edited October 15, 2010 by Just Bob