Er... I Spy... no violation?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using the Service, you will not:

Start a Topic duplicating a previous Topic or portion of a Topic that was determined to be a violation of the Terms of Service by a Moderator or Adminsitrator.

http://www.visajourney.com/content/terms

That's not exactly clear cut though is it.

If the topic itself was fine when it was posted but was derailed and THEN closed because of personal attacks that doesn't make the original topic of conversation invalid. Surely what should not be repeated are the issues that actually lead to it being closed.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Mags 112]

I agree. It can only NOT be reopened (or reposted) if the original topic was a TOS violation. I remember this clearly from my own time modding here on VJ.

The TOS hasn't changed drastically enough for this point to now be moot.

Edit for clarity

Edited August 9, 2010 by Mags

[MelissaJulian 30]

That's not exactly clear cut though is it.

If the topic itself was fine when it was posted but was derailed and THEN closed because of personal attacks that doesn't make the original topic of conversation invalid. Surely what should not be repeated are the issues that actually lead to it being closed.

Thank you, Madhouse. I thought the discussion was going well (and what is left up there shows that it was) but it was derailed by two people (one of whom was my fiance, who thought I was being attacked and was defending me but went over the top). I would like to open up the discussion again, if we can be civil. My fiance has promised me he won't go in there again.

I agree. It can only NOT be reopened (or reposted) if the original topic was a TOS violation. I remember this clearly from my own time modding here on VJ.

The TOS hasn't changed drastically enough for this point to now be moot.

Edit for clarity

Oh, OK. That makes a lot of sense!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I agree. It can only NOT be reopened (or reposted) if the original topic was a TOS violation. I remember this clearly from my own time modding here on VJ.

The TOS hasn't changed drastically enough for this point to now be moot.

Edit for clarity

Right - cause otherwise you could potentially start a thread about a film you saw recently, the thread could get closed for subsequent TOS violations and following Charles' logic you would be breaking the TOS by starting another thread to discuss that film.

I guess it would get even hairier if the thread that was closed involved your own immigration petition.

Thank you, Madhouse. I thought the discussion was going well (and what is left up there shows that it was) but it was derailed by two people (one of whom was my fiance, who thought I was being attacked and was defending me but went over the top). I would like to open up the discussion again, if we can be civil. My fiance has promised me he won't go in there again.

This was the thread?

The OP seems reasonable enough to me.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[MelissaJulian 30]

Right - cause otherwise you could potentially start a thread about a film you saw recently, the thread could get closed for subsequent TOS violations and following Charles' logic you would be breaking the TOS by starting another thread to discuss that film.

I guess it would get even hairier if the thread that was closed involved your own immigration petition.

This was the thread?

The OP seems reasonable enough to me.

Yes, that was it. I mean, I know why it was closed. My fiancé can be really antagonistic when he thinks I've been insulted. So when some people said things he saw as an attack he took a defensive action, or so he thought. It was too far, I agree, but I think it's crazy that I can't post a real question without getting attacked. There are some people on VJ who don't like my fiancé and me, and that's OK, but it seems that every other topic I start gets shut down. And all of this has caused even MORE tension between us.

All I wanted to know is how other people deal with it. I didn't want all of this drama and I didn't want to get lectured on how lucky I am to be gong through London. I know that!!! I just wanted a thread for discussion on whether this happens to other people and how they deal with it. I wish the posts had just been invisibilized and the thread allowed to continue. I would restart it but I'm afraid of going against the TOS.

[Fandango 1,439]

This 'need to restart a fight' - are you certain that you're on the right web portal?

i was speaking generally, Darnell. The excuse to invis the posts was that people don't 'restart a fight'...well, that can technically be done without a quote, can't it? That was my point.

Yes, that was it. I mean, I know why it was closed. My fiancé can be really antagonistic when he thinks I've been insulted. So when some people said things he saw as an attack he took a defensive action, or so he thought. It was too far, I agree, but I think it's crazy that I can't post a real question without getting attacked. There are some people on VJ who don't like my fiancé and me, and that's OK, but it seems that every other topic I start gets shut down. And all of this has caused even MORE tension between us.

All I wanted to know is how other people deal with it. I didn't want all of this drama and I didn't want to get lectured on how lucky I am to be gong through London. I know that!!! I just wanted a thread for discussion on whether this happens to other people and how they deal with it. I wish the posts had just been invisibilized and the thread allowed to continue. I would restart it but I'm afraid of going against the TOS.

FWIW, I think the thread shouldn't have been closed. In fact, I'd dare say you should PM Ewok, send him a link to the thread, and ask him to reopen it. The offending posts are gone, and if you're saying J is going to play nice, then I will too. I think the original idea was a good one, and it can help a lot of people. But 'lectured on how lucky I am to be going thru London?' I'm assuming you are talking about me, since I brought up how easy London is. No one lectured you, Melissa. I certainly didn't. If you open a thread and ask how people deal with it, then don't be surprised if some people (me) have a different POV and see that a straightforward case going through London is a cakewalk compared to people needing waivers, people under AR, and the like. When I was on my vj, we had to wait a while before filing. So, I understand the wait, I know how hard it is, yet my brain obviously works differently than yours, and that's how I dealt with the wait, looking at the 'glass half full' so to speak. You say you want others' POV, but yet you seem to dismiss those that don't jive with what you're looking for. But if you open a thread, don't expect every post to fall lock step into what you 'want'. You're asking for a free flow of ideas, not to control conversation. If someone wants to come in and lecture you, they can and probably will. Like, how you had to snark at me with the 'thanks for the very long post'. Y Did I rise to your bait? No. ou should feel happy that I chose to take the time to contribute to the thread,

We all were having a perfectly fine and civil discussion until your fiance showed up. I will apologize for saying I don't think you're real, but the truth is, I don't. In my eyes, that's not attacking you; I have been civil and given you what I feel is good advice despite my suspicions. We can put our personality issues to the side and have civil discussions in threads. I don't much care if Julian comes in guns blazing and attacks me, but don't expect me to sit around while he calls me names and whatnot. I'm not that kind of pussycat.

VJ sheesh.

_____________________

AJ, why are you under doc's orders for no caffeine?????

Edited August 10, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's bizarre to close a thread after deleting the insults. Might as well just close it, what's the point of removing the posts if you aren't going to leave it open?

[Fandango 1,439]

It's bizarre to close a thread after deleting the insults. Might as well just close it, what's the point of removing the posts if you aren't going to leave it open?

agreed. Either/or imo.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Gemmie 142]

It's bizarre to close a thread after deleting the insults. Might as well just close it, what's the point of removing the posts if you aren't going to leave it open?

Which was why I was confused in the first place. If you read the thread once the insults have been deleted, you'd never know anything happened. And I actually enjoyed the input that everyone was giving.

[MelissaJulian 30]

FWIW, I think the thread shouldn't have been closed. In fact, I'd dare say you should PM Ewok, send him a link to the thread, and ask him to reopen it. The offending posts are gone, and if you're saying J is going to play nice, then I will too. I think the original idea was a good one, and it can help a lot of people. But 'lectured on how lucky I am to be going thru London?' I'm assuming you are talking about me, since I brought up how easy London is. No one lectured you, Melissa. I certainly didn't. If you open a thread and ask how people deal with it, then don't be surprised if some people (me) have a different POV and see that a straightforward case going through London is a cakewalk compared to people needing waivers, people under AR, and the like. When I was on my vj, we had to wait a while before filing. So, I understand the wait, I know how hard it is, yet my brain obviously works differently than yours, and that's how I dealt with the wait, looking at the 'glass half full' so to speak. You say you want others' POV, but yet you seem to dismiss those that don't jive with what you're looking for. But if you open a thread, don't expect every post to fall lock step into what you 'want'. You're asking for a free flow of ideas, not to control conversation. If someone wants to come in and lecture you, they can and probably will. Like, how you had to snark at me with the 'thanks for the very long post'. Y Did I rise to your bait? No. ou should feel happy that I chose to take the time to contribute to the thread,

We all were having a perfectly fine and civil discussion until your fiance showed up. I will apologize for saying I don't think you're real, but the truth is, I don't. In my eyes, that's not attacking you; I have been civil and given you what I feel is good advice despite my suspicions. We can put our personality issues to the side and have civil discussions in threads. I don't much care if Julian comes in guns blazing and attacks me, but don't expect me to sit around while he calls me names and whatnot. I'm not that kind of pussycat.

I think you're not understanding me. I never complained about how long this is all taking, because I know we have it easy. When I started out on VJ, I thought we would be done in like a couple of months. It took about two days to have that beaten out of me on here! I am aware that we are lucky and I try not to complain. We have had to wait a while to file because of problems we had last year. If we hadn't had them, my fiance would be my husband now and been over here for almost a year by now. My question was not whining about how long it takes but how people deal with stress caused by the process. The stress is really getting to me, but luckily we are now waiting for P3 so the end is in sight. I said what I said because I thought you hadn't actually read what my question was about. It did feel like a lecture, I'm sorry. You did say some things that I did listen to about dealing with the stress though and I listened to those. And when I said thanks for the long post, I actually meant it! It gave me a lot to think about, whether or not you believe that.

I don't want to have an issue with you or ANYONE on VJ. I would like to just say I'm sorry if I offended you. And sorry about Julian. I can't control what he has to say, but I have asked him to stay away from all of this for a while because I want to take part in VJ and not just have yet ANOTHER thread locked.

Which was why I was confused in the first place. If you read the thread once the insults have been deleted, you'd never know anything happened. And I actually enjoyed the input that everyone was giving.

Exactly what I think. Maybe I should PM Captain Ewok and ask if it can be reopened.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Exactly what I think. Maybe I should PM Captain Ewok and ask if it can be reopened.

He never answers his PM's. Use the "Contact Us" form at the bottom of the page, or start a new thread here to get his attention.

Edited August 10, 2010 by ##########

[Fandango 1,439]

I think you're not understanding me. I never complained about how long this is all taking, because I know we have it easy. When I started out on VJ, I thought we would be done in like a couple of months. It took about two days to have that beaten out of me on here! I am aware that we are lucky and I try not to complain. We have had to wait a while to file because of problems we had last year. If we hadn't had them, my fiance would be my husband now and been over here for almost a year by now. My question was not whining about how long it takes but how people deal with stress caused by the process. The stress is really getting to me, but luckily we are now waiting for P3 so the end is in sight. I said what I said because I thought you hadn't actually read what my question was about. It did feel like a lecture, I'm sorry. You did say some things that I did listen to about dealing with the stress though and I listened to those. And when I said thanks for the long post, I actually meant it! It gave me a lot to think about, whether or not you believe that.

I don't want to have an issue with you or ANYONE on VJ. I would like to just say I'm sorry if I offended you. And sorry about Julian. I can't control what he has to say, but I have asked him to stay away from all of this for a while because I want to take part in VJ and not just have yet ANOTHER thread locked.

In both replies I made in that thread, I made sure to say I was responding generally, not specifically. My responses were not tailored specifically for you. It was not my intent to make you feel that you were being lectured.

I don't get the comment of yours that 'every topic I open, I wind up getting attacked.' No one attacked you in that thread.

Also, fwiw, you don't need to apologize for Julian. You two may be getting married, but you're not responsible for his behavior. I appreciate it, but it's unnecc..

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Revisiting this topic with a different thread in question. I would post a link, but it has been invisibilised. Today there was a thread in the UK forum where the OP was asking about when her interview date would come, because she had been waiting 2 weeks already. She said she was calling DOS every day. Some of the older members, myself included, told her to calm down and try not to obsess over it. We were told to go away and she would call if she wanted to. We were merely sharing the accumulated knowledge we have, and maybe there was a modicum of tough love, but crucially there were no TOS violations. There were also some very useful bits of information in the thread from Nich-Nick and marlea about searching timelines (which the OP seemed to ignore) that would have been useful to keep posted for others' use.

The thread was locked at the request of the OP. Fair enough, it was her thread and she can always ask for it to be closed. However, I fail to see the rationale behind invisibilising it. There were no TOS violations, no personal attacks (beyond telling the OP that she was going to be consumed by stress at this rate and pass it on to others in the UK forum), nothing truly egregious. I had the distinct feeling that the OP did not want to hear what was being said to her, but is that enough to invisibilise a thread these days on VJ?

[William33 110]

elmcitymaven,

The OP asked for the thread to be removed, which is their prerogative.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

elmcitymaven,

The OP asked for the thread to be removed, which is their prerogative.

Thank you for the clarification, William.