Racism

[HAL 9000 96]

Many folks confuse the meanings of the terms culture and race.

[evli1966 88]

That perception has a lot to with the media presentation of stories related to race relations.

Does the existence of the NAACP mean that whites are being systematically downtrodden by blacks? I highly doubt it.

I agree it does not except the political agenda of its leaders could vary from the local chapters who would be the next door nieghbors of the avaerage family and those agendas could be taken liberties from individiuals in the name their cause.

But would the NAACP acknowledge the existence of an organization that focused on the development of white americans which were classified as poor and or recieved a poor education due to the school system in their communities or help an excelling white student with out calling it racist?

Would the NAACP open it's ranks to assist white families burdened with social issues similar to thise a black family would be experiencing or would the only assistance they gain be from collatoral assistance from the organization assiting a balck family near them?

Look it is not about who gets more rigths everyone should have equal rights the organization like NAACP is there to help ensure blacks or other organizations for other minotities help them receive and maintain equal rights.

It is now about acceptance if a white based organization that does not impede the rights of minorities wants to help white people in social situations, economic situations, legal situations they should be able to do so with out these minority groups impeding their rights or harrassing them in the media, locally, nationally etc.

[HAL 9000 96]

I think its been explained before- these 'advancement' organizations were established with a clear purpose in mind in view of a very clear racial disparity.

If some segment of the white population (whatever criteria to be used is up to the parties in question) feels they've been disadvantaged in some way throughout history and are suffering in some way as a result thereof, by all means, get that group together already and get over the existence of the NAACP.

[evli1966 88]

I think its been explained before- these 'advancement' organizations were established with a clear purpose in mind in view of a very clear racial disparity.

If some segment of the white population (whatever criteria to be used is up to the parties in question) feels they've been disadvantaged in some way throughout history and are suffering in some way as a result thereof, by all means, get that group together already and get over the existence of the NAACP.

Your missing the point or I am failing horribly at explaining myself.

I understand the purpose of thes organizations and do not wish to undermine them or deter them or wish them any ill affect.

I am not saying the organization would be based on a factor that the white man has been dsiadvantaged through out history but just helping white individuals or families that are experiencing difficulties. that particular organization would be discribed as racist and discriminatory in its endeavors.

That is my point there can be no direct white only help with out it being considered racist or iscrimiatory by any minority group.

Just for clarification I do not belong to any white supported group or activist groups etc.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've read a lot of misconceptions here. Most White folks always make the assumption that they have always been privleged and Blacks have not. However, consider these facts:

There were Africans who arrived in the New World as free men, who remained free, who propered, owned land and slaves;

There were Europeans who arrived as indentured servants, living as little more than slaves;

As in Australia, European prisoner colonies were instituted to take advantage of prison labor;

Not all the folks who are considered to be White now were always White. Some have only been accepted as White for less than 75 years. Irish settlers were particularly rejected as non-White, as were Poles, Greeks and Italians;

White Americans and Black Americans have more in common with each other than with any other group;

During industrialization in the north, intact Black families grew prosperous, gaining comparable middle class and upper class status;

Due to segregation, Blacks developed their own prestigious institutions, Greek clubs, universities, businesses and the like;

The first Black female millionaire was a Black woman who developed a line of ethnic hair products;

The doctor who developed blood transfusions was a Black man who died after a car accident because he was refused a blood transfusion at a Whites only hospital. His daughter was a childhood friend of mine;

Until about 45 years ago, most Blacks were Republicans.

There is a great amount of ignorance in how discussions of race so often dissolve into the plight of poor, disadvantaged Blacks. Yet, this country has millions of Black people who have known properity, ownership, leadership and success among their families and comunities. I grew up with Black people who held high political office, owned successful businesses and made large payrolls. Many had advanced degrees, were well traveled, attended storied events. Some well heralded artists and entertainers, inventors, writers and publishers. They lived in mansions and built empires that still exist today.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I've read a lot of misconceptions here. Most White folks always make the assumption that they have always been privleged and Blacks have not. However, consider these facts:

There were Africans who arrived in the New World as free men, who remained free, who propered, owned land and slaves;

There were Europeans who arrived as indentured servants, living as little more than slaves;

As in Australia, European prisoner colonies were instituted to take advantage of prison labor;

Not all the folks who are considered to be White now were always White. Some have only been accepted as White for less than 75 years. Irish settlers were particularly rejected as non-White, as were Poles, Greeks and Italians;

White Americans and Black Americans have more in common with each other than with any other group;

During industrialization in the north, intact Black families grew prosperous, gaining comparable middle class and upper class status;

Due to segregation, Blacks developed their own prestigious institutions, Greek clubs, universities, businesses and the like;

The first Black female millionaire was a Black woman who developed a line of ethnic hair products;

The doctor who developed blood transfusions was a Black man who died after a car accident because he was refused a blood transfusion at a Whites only hospital. His daughter was a childhood friend of mine;

Until about 45 years ago, most Blacks were Republicans.

There is a great amount of ignorance in how discussions of race so often dissolve into the plight of poor, disadvantaged Blacks. Yet, this country has millions of Black people who have known prosperity, ownership, leadership and success among their families and comunities. I grew up with Black people who held high political office, owned successful businesses and made large payrolls. Many had advanced degrees, were well traveled, attended storied events. Some well heralded artists and entertainers, inventors, writers and publishers. They lived in mansions and built empires that still exist today.

(Moderator hat off)

And thus illustrating beautifully the serious disservice and damage caused by 'stereotyping'.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Kathryn41

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Cont.

This conservative Black bourgeois is largely unknown to have existed for more than two century in the US, but there were millions of rich, well educated Black people long before athletes and rappers came on the scene. This is a story that needs to be told to give context to the Black experience in America. And how groups that did not start out as White became White is an interesting historical excerpt, too. Check it out. You may learn something that will help broaden the discussion from cliche to substance.

[HAL 9000 96]

Your missing the point or I am failing horribly at explaining myself.

I understand the purpose of thes organizations and do not wish to undermine them or deter them or wish them any ill affect.

I am not saying the organization would be based on a factor that the white man has been dsiadvantaged through out history but just helping white individuals or families that are experiencing difficulties. that particular organization would be discribed as racist and discriminatory in its endeavors.

That is my point there can be no direct white only help with out it being considered racist or iscrimiatory by any minority group.

Just for clarification I do not belong to any white supported group or activist groups etc.

Oh neither of us are missing the point, actually. That's why I suggest, if its such a big deal and IF there is no such thing as a racial disparity that manifests itself economically (etc) in the USA... then by all means, the NAAWP can be more than easily formed. The mission statement can clearly state what the purpose is for the organization. And racism charges can be discredited much like the charges that the NAACP, La Raza, etc, are in themselves in mission, racists organizations.

The stigma for white [power] organizations come from the obvious fact that these same organizations antagonize non-white communities in action, not in that they purport to promote the advancement of white people in the USA. Again, its a question of clear history that defines the framework for the very existence of all of these organizations- be they for advancement, or for one of the worst elements in human culture- racism. People should be intelligent enough to be able to match stated organizations' mission statements to their actual actions and judge for themselves.

[HAL 9000 96]

Anyway, time to go. The lab will have to wait for tomorrow to get me back.

Evli, although I disagree with some of your perspectives, you bring them out in an extremely cordial manner. Its nice debating that way with someone of that sort. Just sayin.

[evli1966 88]

Anyway, time to go. The lab will have to wait for tomorrow to get me back.

Evli, although I disagree with some of your perspectives, you bring them out in an extremely cordial manner. Its nice debating that way with someone of that sort. Just sayin.

Hal

Thanks same to you.

Madhouse good discussion today.

[justashooter 430]

I would like to draw everyone's attention to white people suffering in Africa under black oppression. Some have likened what is Reverse Apartheid to white genocide... But reality is much starker. So while you're b!tching about everyone else's rights around the world, don't for the the 450,000 whites in South Africa who live a desperate lives along with millions of poor blacks.

thank you.

My only comment regarding this thread, one I've mentioned occasionally, is that I feel the need to elevate any crime to that of a "hate crime" is unnecessary.

agreed. a crime is a crime.

reverse racism, what is that?

it's TOS on VJ.

I'm suggesting that whites have a (generally) different experience to blacks in US society. If that weren't the case, then poverty wouldn't be so endemic amongst the black population, nor would the teen pregancy rates, high school graduation rates, life-expectancy, likelihood of jail etc. etc. show marked disparities between racial and socio-economic groups.

hear it from a black man, since i am white, and not allowed to say it:

Addressing a congregation at the Apostolic Church of God, one of Chicago's largest black churches, on Father's Day, Barack Obama said:

"Too many fathers are M.I.A., too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men." (obama)

Obama Unveils Fatherhood, Mentoring Initiative

Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 2:42 am

By: Jackie Jones, BlackAmericaWeb.com

http://www.blackamer...rica_news/19669

Audience members listen as President Barack Obama speaks about fatherhood in Washington Monday. (AP)

President Barack Obama unveiled the Fatherhood and Mentoring Initiative on Monday, a follow-up to the national conversation he launched last year on fatherhood and personal responsibility.

“My own father left my family when I was two years old. I was raised by a heroic mother and wonderful grandparents who provided the support, discipline and love that helped me get to where I am today, but I still felt the weight of that absence throughout my childhood,” Obama said. “It's something that leaves a hole no government can fill. Studies show that children who grow up without their fathers around are more likely to drop out of high school, go to jail, or become teen fathers themselves.”

The initiative is a national call to action to address fatherlessness in America and includes:

• A series of community forums on fatherhood and personal responsibility, sponsored by the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships and the Office of Public Engagement.

• Outreach programs to assist those who sign up for the program, including e-newsletters featuring articles, tips and resources from prominent leaders in the fatherhood and family fields and information about model programs.

• Assistance from supporting organizations, including the National Parent Teachers Association, the National Fatherhood Leaders Group and the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities, which have signed up to advance the initiative.

The president kicked off the initiative with a mentor barbecue on the South Lawn of the White House with Michael Strautmanis, chief of staff to Valerie Jarrett, and Joshua Dubois, director of the White House Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.

Over the past year, members of the Obama administration reached out across the country to hear from fathers and their families about the challenges they face. Officials held events across the country, including a discussion with Education Secretary Arne Duncan in New Hampshire about the link between fatherhood and educational achievement and a forum in Georgia with Attorney General Eric Holder about fathers in the criminal justice system.

“As the father of two young daughters, I know that being a father is one of the most important jobs any man can have,” the president told reporters on Father’s Day.

According to the initiative’s web site:

• Men from intact families are 8.7 percent more likely to live with all of their children under the age of 18 than men who did not.

http://www.blackamer...rica_news/19669

• Forty-eight percent of black children in single-parent households live with their mothers.

• Between 1970 and 2004, the percentage of two-parent families in the U.S. decreased from 87.2 percent to 67.6 percent, and single-parent black families rose to 63 percent by 2004, while the majority of white and Hispanic children remained in two-parent families.

“And while no government program can fill the role that fathers play for our children, what we can do is try to support fathers who are willing to step up and fulfill their responsibilities as parents, partners and providers,” Obama said. “That's why last year I started a nationwide dialogue on fatherhood to tackle the challenge of father absence head on.”

In addition to the fatherhood initiative, the president also has proposed a Fatherhood, Marriage and Families Innovation Fund that would support effective fatherhood and family-strengthening programs across the country and has provided funding through the Department of Labor for transitional jobs programs for noncustodial parents facing barriers to employment.

[Krikit 1,163]

Black men aren't the only ones who abandon their children.

[Peikko 1,575]

Black men aren't the only ones who abandon their children.

Oh, it's not that it doesn't happen, but that the proportion of black fathers doing this is significantly higher than their white counterparts but MORE IMPORTANTLY indicative of some cultural failure in black society, not any historical legacy of social inequality or anything librul like that.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

ok boo i mean fishdude, calm down. 'poor' eliminates all the preconcieved racial sterotypes. why will you not allow 'poor' into the equation? why can the life experiences of a 'poor white kid' not be assessed objectively? are you guilty of using preconcieved racial sterotypes right now?

i don't get angry when people bust on white people. if a joke is funny because it plays up sterotypical traits of white people. then its funny period. i feel the same way about jokes with minorities as the butt of the joke. if its funny its funny.

when someone of any race applies racial sterotypes to sway opinion on anything outside of the comedic genre. it pisses me off, no matter who it is.

why does this state of affairs exist? i don't know. but, its undeniable that minorities & caucasions are held to a different standard on the subject.

If you feel it is possible to objectively identify subjective experiences, feel free to give it a go. As I said, I think that this is going to end up being an exercise in imagination.

[Atencio 43]

The white majority does not have the same issues where a "White Organization" or a "White college fund" would be necessary. There is no such thing as a singular "White identity" because whites don't really view themselves in racial terms. Simply, there a reason why the only organizations which exist to advance white people are militant Nazi groups like the Aryan Nation.

Is it because only white militants would form such a club or is it because anyone who tried to form such a group would be labeled as such?