what is the difference between a citizen through naturalization and a citizen through birth?

[thongd4me 69]

The US Constitution would have to be amended first as this is explicitly disallowed. It is assumed that naturalized citizens don't feel the same sort of allegiance to the country as a natural-born citizen would have. There is also often the troubling aspect of 'dual allegiance' which may not be a problem for most civilians but can definitely become a problem for a President during war time.

There has been a movement afoot to make such an amendment to smooth the way for the "Governator."

As the Constitutional law now stands, he is not eligible.

[IncorrectPolitics 26]

I am a citizen by birth and stayed out of the country for 3 years, I was in China teaching English. I could have returned more often but I just stayed between breaks because I am not a fan of traveling long distances. When I did return the stupid guy at the airport asked so many ridiculous questions. I was tired, air sick, and overdosed on Dramamine so I wasn't very nice to him. I guess I could have been more civil, but he was making me feel like I was a criminal for teaching English in another country and enjoying my life

As for the people who get citizenship then decide not to live in America, I don't have a problem with them. My husband and I had planned to stay here but we are changing our minds because we have better opportunities abroad at the moment. Next year he is eligible for citizenship and he will apply, why?, because we both feel all of the time and money we spent to get here and get a green card he should just go all the way to citizen. After that we may or may not stay here, but the citizenship is still a good thing to have because I am a U.S. citizen and so are our two children, it would be a shame to start the whole process over after all we have went through.

[IncorrectPolitics 26]

There has been a movement afoot to make such an amendment to smooth the way for the "Governator."

As the Constitutional law now stands, he is not eligible.

No offense to anyone but I don't think this is a good idea. While most people in this situation may have good intentions not all will.

[Meskal 0]

Citizenship through Birth

-Timeline: 9 months in-utero

-$??? in hospital/birth fees

-Not having to go through the USCIS (lucky them!)

-Fastest way for one to get US Citizenship

-Citizenship cannot be totally lost, since it is a birthright (although there are ways to revoke such)

-Having the "United States of America" listed as a birth country on legal documents and paperwork

-Can run for US president

-Choice made by parents.

-NOT A TOO MUCH OF A CHOICE HERE....lol...

-Actually Not All TRUE here...one can become Us citizen and obtain CERTIFICATE OF US CITIZENSHIP (not certificate of naturalization) through "birth" to Us parents that may be naturilized and via adoption. You WILL HAVE your birth place listed on your birth certificate (which is fine IMO) and you will NOT be able to run for a president.

and

"I do agree with everyone - but technically, a naturalized US citizen does not and should never get asked about his/her A# unless applying for a replacement naturalization cert. "

-sorry BUT you will need your A# . For example on I 130 # 10 (http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-130.pdf)

[Meskal 0]

Oh and forgot , to get that proof of one's citizenship ie to obtain the Certificate of Citizenship in above example will cost you (well your parents...) 420$ ,although you are citizen by virtue of law.

[thongd4me 69]

Oh and forgot , to get that proof of one's citizenship ie to obtain the Certificate of Citizenship in above example will cost you (well your parents...) 420$ ,although you are citizen by virtue of law.

A passport costs less.

[NickD 202]

There is only one issue on this subject, "where you were born", a key issue that none of us has absolutely no control over. And to complicate matters, countries where you were born in, including this one, feels they own you as well. And it doesn't make a bit of difference if your parents were here legally or not, you were born here.

A naturalized citizen is here by choice, and no, you are not the same as a person that is born here. But can be nearly the same if you don't travel abroad. As pointed out, an naturalized citizen is required to maintain that burden of proof that they are indeed naturalized, either via the certificate or a passport, neither is cheap.

But am hearing rumors about a new database that is keeping track of naturalized citizens.

I am natural born, didn't have to do anything, my wife that is naturalized had to make great sacrifices and work hard to get that piece of paper. I never had to take an oath, well except when drafted, still wonder about that, if I refused, would have been tossed in jail. Ha, fighting for freedom for those draft dodgers running this country.

Child ownership also is assumed by the parents, and a debate goes on between parents and the government as to exactly owns the kid. When I was a kid, my dad could mistreat me anyway he liked, and he did. Can't do that today, also would end up in jail, but also the government holds the parents legally responsible for any misbehavior of your kids until they reach that magical age of 18. So as a parent, put in the position of begging your kids to stay out of trouble, but if they get into trouble, can't do anything to correct it. Government takes on a different position, can lock you up in jail and even execute you if you are naughty.

When you think about this, with a logical mind, you can go insane, so better off not to think about it. Is it possible our leaders are smoking crack? That Charlie's War movie sure pointed that out. Also enjoy watching NCIS where the biggest crooks are those in law enforcement, that makes sense, get into law enforcement if you want to be a crook.

[Meskal 0]

A passport costs less.

If it only was that simple For many reasons that I won' t go into here and sidetrack further...passport is not enough on a long run.

[v333k 59]

Well... I guess if I take a couple of steps back, and say the following, everyone can agree with me?

If someone asks you if you are a citizen or not, then the answer is yes (for those who are indeed citizens) - but they cannot ask you if you got naturalized or by birth (for official inquiries)? I guess someone also pointed out the fact that what happens when you are born to US citizen parents but outside the US?

I still agree with NickD regarding the place of birth on the passport.

[thongd4me 69]

If it only was that simple For many reasons that I won' t go into here and sidetrack further...passport is not enough on a long run.

I'm willing to learn, but does this certificate have magic that the passport doesn't?

Doesn't the act of naturalization give you a certificate certifying you are a citizen?

I don't have any family members that have been naturalized so I'm unaware of that.

[NickD 202]

I'm willing to learn, but does this certificate have magic that the passport doesn't?

Doesn't the act of naturalization give you a certificate certifying you are a citizen?

I don't have any family members that have been naturalized so I'm unaware of that.

To date, the only agency that wanted to see my wife's US citizen certificate is the Department of State, and that was for her passport. If SS is still around when she retires, she may have to show her certificate for that to get benefits. Natural born citizens need to show their birth certificate, maybe as proof that you were born. I don't know, I don't make the rules.

[Meskal 0]

I'm willing to learn, but does this certificate have magic that the passport doesn't?

Doesn't the act of naturalization give you a certificate certifying you are a citizen?

In the case I was referring to there is no natyralization process really, it is by virtueof the law, yet the coc needs to be applied and yes PAID for. Why? Well for example:

"Many people seem to believe that getting a U.S. passport for their child is enough "proof". However, there are several problems with this:

1. Passports expire. If you are relying solely on a passport as proof of citizenship, your child will have to constantly renew their passport and never allow it to expire. This will be a lifelong economic commitment for your child whereas a COC is a one time fee. Also, there are some travel circumstances where passports need to be sent off in order to receive travel visas. During those periods, your child will have no proof of citizenship.

2. CIS does not necessarily accept a passport as proof of citizenship because passports do not indicate *how* an individual obtained citizenship.

3. Filing for and obtaining a certificate of citizenship ensures that CIS has a record of citizenship. This is especially important for children who arrive on IR-4 visas (i.e. Ethiopian children) because otherwise CIS has no record that the adoption has been finalized.

4. It is extremely difficult for adult adoptees to obtain certificates of citizenship for themselves. (Paperwork has often been misplaced, and CIS is not sympathetic)

5. Using a passport as proof of citizenship poses additional risks. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 has dramatically increased the severity of penalties for even minor offenses. If an individual falsely represents him/herself as an American Citizen for any purpose, they can be deported. Technically using a U.S. Passport as "proof of citizenship" without having applied for the COC can be considered false representation.

6. Once it gets to the point where the legal system is involved, there is very little recourse, and a number of teenage and adult adoptees have been deported to the countries of their birth with no language skills, cultural understanding, or support system. In deportation cases, the abilily to prove citizenship quickly and with uncontested documents is critical."

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Well... I guess if I take a couple of steps back, and say the following, everyone can agree with me?

If someone asks you if you are a citizen or not, then the answer is yes (for those who are indeed citizens) - but they cannot ask you if you got naturalized or by birth (for official inquiries)? I guess someone also pointed out the fact that what happens when you are born to US citizen parents but outside the US?

I still agree with NickD regarding the place of birth on the passport.

One HUGE thing about naturalised USC's is it CAN be revoked if it is determined that you made a material misrepresentation at the time of making your applications (at ANY stage, like way way way back at the start), a US born citizen cannot have his/her citizenship revoked. Where that leaves you if your gave up your home countries citizenship though I don't know :S

US citizenship by blood will only work if the parents have followed the requirements for residency at the time of the child's birth. Explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_within_the_United_States it's pretty interesting that not in EVERY case is a child a USC because their parent is.

As for "can they ask how you got citizenship" yes they can esp with the new laws. For instance, when I got my passport in Australia I had to show my birth certificate, obviously as a USC by naturalisation, showing my birth cert doesn't prove I'm a USC, so I need the naturalisation certificate as my pseudo "US birth cert".

Also, lets say you petition for a K1 while a naturalised USC (you have to put your A number on it).. lets say it comes out that you lied at some stage and your USC is revoked, your K1'd person will ALSO be revoked because they wouldn't have gained a K1 without the USC and as s/he lied to GET USC, then no benefits for the K1 either. The A number is your "link" to the US. Your file will ALWAYS be around somewhere... Your naturalisation certificate is as important as your birth certificate now. You will probably have to pull it out every now and then but it's not the end of the world.

I do agree with the passport thing though and I do believe a USC is a USC (once you've proved your citizenship you shouldn't have to KEEP proving it) but there are some important differences between the two if you're someone who lied to get USC. As someone who didn't/hasn't/won't lie, I feel I should be treated like any USC (when the time comes)... doesn't always work that way though, the accent gives me away!

**Edit - you know, I just realised. ANY time someone asks me about my accent they either assume I'm a visitor or ask how long I've been here... maybe I was born here and just went on holiday and picked up the accent?? (lol.. nah it's too strong for that but it's still possible) or I was born here and lived in Aus for a couple of years with my aussie parent?? Sometimes I think it's rude to ask but no-one's ever rude WHEN they ask.. until that happens I don't mind too much. Maybe I should make a t-shirt? "Born Aussie, LPR since XXX, USC since XXX" just to stop the qns? Hmmm ideas ideas

Edited July 2, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[NickD 202]

Only one of my four grandparents could speak English and with a very strong Italian accent, in cities like Milwaukee and Chicago, they lived in neighborhoods where their native language was spoken, but would listen to the radio or watch TV in English, but really didn't know what was going on. My parents were bilingual, needed them to interpret for me when talking to my grandparents.

My wife has a unique accent, hope she never uses it, everyone we met so far likes her accent, has a very lovely voice. Step daughter coming here at 14 is 100% American speaking now.

They never owned or drove a car, dependent on city transportation, and to the best of my recollection, never traveled. Can say the same about my mother-in-law, first time she got a passport was to come and visit us, lived in the same home for like 50 years in the same neighborhood in Bogota.

In regards to showing my birth certificate, when first attending kindergarten, mostly for age, same for my first drivers license, proof of age was required, at the same time at 16 for my SS card I needed to get a part time job, but again not sure for age or for citizenship, then when I was drafted. Somehow I lost my birth certificate and didn't need it again until I petitioned for my wife. Last time I had to show it was for her N-400 interview, maybe I can lose it again. Never showed my birth certificate for my pilots license, guess I looked old enough. Same with my first and second marriage. Well second marriage only for the USCIS AOS, but not the license. Even for moving to different states, only had to show my current drivers' license as the only proof of who I am.

Actually, I forgot, applied for a US passport when I first met my wife, that is when I needed a copy of my birth certificate, really had no need for one until then, traveled extensively in the USA, Canada, and Mexico for my job, and also had six kids to raise, so traveling out of the country was out. Had to see what she looked like, but I guess if I didn't meet her, would have never applied until recently, just to go to Canada. That still seems super weird to me after all these years. Was an executive decision from that idiot from Texas that should be reversed. Claimed Canada wasn't doing enough to filter out terrorist, even though is mid-eastern buddies came here legally to terrorized this country. He was close friends with the Ben Laden family, we pay the price for that.

Only time my wife was asked to see her green card was for her drivers' license, employment, and SS card, for the first two, good have lied about that by checking I am a US citizen box. High school was far my interested in my step daughters grade transcripts than her green card, then her SS card, then drivers' license, but recently for college. Outside of that, were never asked to see it by anyone else.