what is the difference between a citizen through naturalization and a citizen through birth?

[ValerieA 350]

OK, a question on this - what about a child of US citizens born abroad - ie: a CRBA is filed; I always assumed these citizens would fall in the "by birth" category, but they can not be US president...

[antda 13]

Oops...I meant...

August 2008- June 2009...

And November 2008 - July 2009....

Ant

[sachinky 464]

Valerie--Yes, they can. The parents must meet some sort of residency requirement, yes but they are still considered to be NATURAL-BORN citizens of the US even if they are born outside the U.S. They derive their citizenship through 'jus sanguinis' -- lineage or blood. Natural-born citizens of the US are eligible to run for POTUS. Naturalized citizens aren't. The US grants citizenship through jus soli (soil) and jus sanguinis (blood) -- some USCs are natural born by both accounts (born on U.S. soil to USC parents) -- others may fulfil only one category. Born on U.S. soil to foreign parents. Or born to USC parents on foreign soil.

Edited June 30, 2010 by sachinky

[antda 13]

OK, a question on this - what about a child of US citizens born abroad - ie: a CRBA is filed; I always assumed these citizens would fall in the "by birth" category, but they can not be US president...

ValerieA-Actually..Yes, they fall under the "by birth" category, as they acquired their citizenship through their US born parent, and not by naturalization....

Not sure if they can run for US president or not....

Would have to further inquire about that...lol..

However, there are always exceptions to the rule: I think there was a man that was born in another country, on a US military base....They became president...lol.....

Anyone else have any thoughts on this...Ok, I'm curious too....lol....

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[ValerieA 350]

Valerie--Yes, they can. The parents must meet some sort of residency requirement, yes but they are still considered to be NATURAL-BORN citizens of the US even if they are born outside the U.S. They derive their citizenship through 'jus sanguinis' -- lineage or blood. Natural-born citizens of the US are eligible to run for POTUS. Naturalized citizens aren't. The US grants citizenship through jus soli (soil) and jus sanguinis (blood) -- some USCs are natural born by both accounts (born on U.S. soil to USC parents) -- others may fulfil only one category. Born on U.S. soil to foreign parents. Or born to USC parents on foreign soil.

Haha, I decided to stop being lazy and looked it up for myself. But thanks!

I don't understand all the presidential birth certificate conspiracy theories, now. His mother was an American citizen, if I read correctly.

[antda 13]

Yes, they can. The parents must meet some sort of residency requirement, yes but they are still considered to be NATURAL-BORN citizens of the US even if they are born outside the U.S. They derive their citizenship through 'jus sanguinis' -- lineage or blood. Natural-born citizens of the US are eligible to run for POTUS. Naturalized citizens aren't. The US grants citizenship through jus soli (soil) and jus sanguinis (blood) -- some USCs are natural born by both accounts (born on U.S. soil to USC parents) -- others may fulfil only one category. Born on U.S. soil to foreign parents. Or born to USC parents on foreign soil.

Sachinky-Thanks for the explaination...Helpful, indeed!

Rofl...I'm Jus Soli....My husband is Jus Sanguinis.....My son is Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis.....

What a great combination for US Citizenship!.......

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

By the way...The whole thing about the US president having to be born in the USA goes back to the old days, when this country was founded....

You see, the US 'founding fathers' didn't want any british nobels/kings (who they were against) to be president of the USA.....So that's why that clause was included...(lol..someone can do a search online to find more info about that...)

As for the conspiracy theories about anything....They are just theories.....

Think of them as rumours, and nothing more than that...

The thing about Obama was that his father had some Kenyan descent, and they thought that Obama was born there, instead of the USA, and thus the theorists think that because of that he is not eligible to be president....

Frankly, I don't think that this is true. He was born in Haiwaii instead, and yes, he does have a US birth certificate to prove that....

Really, these theorists should find better things to do than to search for the president's birth certificate.....

Sigh..What has this country come to when one has to question about birth certificates....

Ant

[ryna 132]

I would have this to add about Jus Sanguini and Jus Soli and who is and isn't a "natural-born U.S. Citizen":

Jus Soli citizenship wasn't added until the 14th Amendment, therefore Jus Sanguini is the original form of "natural-born US Citizen." Now, I am not a legal-type but it seems to me that any person whose citizenship is derived by Jus Sanguini cannot be considered anything but a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Natural-born U.S. citizen, Jus Sanguini and Jus Soli

[antda 13]

Ok...I did a quick online search, and this is what I found....Hope this helps...

Ant

You have to be a citizen born in the United States, Guam, Puerto Rico or the U.S. Virgin Islands (or to American parents abroad).

The above answer is correct. The point made in brackets at the end is explained in the following. The Constitution places certain restrictions on those who may be eligible to the Office of the President of the United States. These eligibility requirements can be found in Article two, Section one, Paragraph five of the constitution, which reads as follows:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Naturalisation Acts starting with the American Naturalisation Act of 1790 and folloing naturalisation acts such as those of 1855 have recognised that those "...born outside of the borders or beyond the control of the United States,...,to a US citizen shall be considered as a natural born Citizen of the United States."

Following the littleral translation of the language of the Constitution and the following naturalisation acts, you do not have to have been born in the United States. However, you do have to have been born to at least one parent who holds citizenship with the USA.

Source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_be_president_if_you_were_not_born_in_America

[sachinky 464]

Sachinky-Thanks for the explaination...Helpful, indeed!

Rofl...I'm Jus Soli....My husband is Jus Sanguinis.....My son is Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis.....

What a great combination for US Citizenship!.......

Ant

I thought you just recently naturalized to become a USC. How do you derive natural-born citizenship through 'jus soli?'

[sachinky 464]

The conspiracy regarding Obama's citizenship is what it is. BS. It's brought up by people who are too lazy to open a political science text book or read their own Constitution. It's why law-suit after law-suit have been thrown out by the Supreme Court.

EVEN if he was born in Kenya, he is entitled to natural born USC through his mother.

The only reasonable explanation I've read so far is something about his mother's residency (you have to have lived in the US for a certain # of years after attaining a certain age). From what I understand, she was in Kenya for a few years when she gave birth to Obama at the age of 16.

However, all that is moot since he was born in Hawaii.

[antda 13]

I thought you just recently naturalized to become a USC. How do you derive natural-born citizenship through 'jus soli?'

Oops..Sorry...I mis-read that...Never mind....

On a technicality...I did naturalize on US Soil.....And naturalization is kind of like being "naturally born in the USA"....

So I suppose that "jus soli" thing can works in ways for naturalization...

Just kidding.....But I wonder if anyone else has ever thought about that...Hmmm....

(lol..I'm not running for President..it doesn't matter anyways...lol...)

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[sachinky 464]

However, there are always exceptions to the rule: I think there was a man that was born in another country, on a US military base....They became president...lol.....Ant

U.S. military base is considered to be U.S. soil.

[sachinky 464]

Oops..Sorry...I mis-read that...Never mind....

On a technicality...I did naturalize on US Soil.....And naturalization is kind of like being "born in the USA"....

So I suppose that "jus soli" thing can works in ways for naturalization...

Just kidding.....But I wonder if anyone else has ever thought about that...Hmmm....

(lol..I'm not running for President..it doesn't matter anyways...lol...)

Ant

Jus soli and jus sanguinis are philosophical/political concepts that apply ONLY to natural-born citizens. Countries usually grant citizenship on one or both. US grants citizenship on both as does India. Germany only grants based on 'jus sanguinis.' Naturalization involves a long process (money, forms, time, meeting requirements etc.) -- stuff that is very separate and distinct from being a natural-born citizen -- irrespective of whether or not you feel spiritually 'reborn.'

How is it a technicality -- I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make? One may ONLY naturalize on U.S. soil. Even if you naturalize in a US embassy abroad, that IS considered to be US soil.

Edited June 30, 2010 by sachinky

[antda 13]

U.S. military base is considered to be U.S. soil.

Sach-True...But they became president regardless....

Jus soli and jus sanguinis are philosophical/political concepts that apply ONLY to natural-born citizens. Countries usually grant citizenship on one or both. US grants citizenship on both as does India. Germany only grants based on 'jus sanguinis.' Naturalization involves a long process (money, forms, time, meeting requirements etc.) -- stuff that is very separate and distinct from being a natural-born citizen -- irrespective of whether or not you feel spiritually 'reborn.'

How is it a technicality -- I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make? One may ONLY naturalize on U.S. soil. Even if you naturalize in a US embassy abroad, that IS considered to be US soil.

Sach-Countries can give either one or the other....

It's either through birth or naturalization....It's good that the US gives both....

Though one difference between birth and naturalization is that birth is not chosen and naturalization is chosen...

And regardless, both are viewed equally and results in the same...Being a US Citizen, which is what should matter in the end

Lol..US Citizenship by any name or means would smell just as sweet......

Now as for presidency, that's another debate....left to who have a US birthright to pursue such....

But as far as the "jus soli" technicality is concerned...We are all 'born' on US soil when we become US Citizens, no matter how we acquired that citizenship.....

So being literal...all US Citizens have "US Soil" inside of them........Just a thought....

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA