Formally and Legally giving up former birth country after US Citizenship....

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

I know that after one gets US Citizenship through naturalization they are supposed to "give up ties to any other foreign countries" (or something along those lines), as mentioned in the oath. And as far as the US is concerned, this is their way of saying "You're an American"....

However, as far as the other foreign country is concerned, on a technicality, one might still have rights to a former country, whether through birthright, or by any other means. And in order to give up a former country's citizenship, they must do so legally and in writing.

So, I am asking all of you...Have any of you thought about doing this legally and in writing? Have any of you actually ever gone though the legal process of renouncing/giving up ties to a former country? If so, how was that experience? Did you have to go through a foreign consulate/embassy to do such? Did they give you any problems regarding such? Did you encounter any problems regarding such?

I am thinking about renouncing any ties to my former birth country (note: it's not Canada, it's another birth country instead that I would rather not mention here on VJ, as I don't want to offend anyone that may still have ties to such a country), as it causes too many problems, confusion, and I don't have any ties to that country anymore. And I would like to do so legally in any way possible.....

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions/etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ant

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

P.S. I've tried to get in contact with that patricular other country's officials...No luck.....I've been playing 'e-mail tag' with them for the last two years or so, trying to find some basic answers to this.........

No surprise really, as English is not their first language.....(and I don't speak their language either...)

Nevertheless, I'll keep on trying.......

Lol..Who would want to have ties to such a corrupt country is is beyond my comprehension...

Sigh..I didn't get a choice in the matter of where I was born....

But I have a choice as to which country I wanted to be naturalized in....

And now because of all of this, I have to take extra steps to renounce former countries...How frustrating, indeed....

Ant

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[milimelo 4,494]

Is this one of the Former Yugoslavia countries? If so, you'll have to pay them around $700 to get the "ispis iz drzavljanstva" paper - can be done through the embassy/consulate but that almost doubles the price. Not sure of the wait time, used to be around 1-3 months couple of years ago.

Or you could hire a lawyer there and give him power of attorney to handle this for you.

[NickD 203]

Not sure how that would work with Colombia, didn't want to let her in with a US passport with her place of birth on it. Her Colombian ID expired 30 years ago, she did bring that along, still didn't make any difference. What did work was a firm promise to renew it and get a Colombian passport.

So what would happen if she did renounce citizenship to that country she was born in as long as she has place of birth as Colombia in her US passport? In effect, she told immigration she hasn't lived in Colombia for 30 years and is a citizen of the USA, didn't make a bit of difference to them.

[CaptainPenguin 5]

Hi Everyone,

I know that after one gets US Citizenship through naturalization they are supposed to "give up ties to any other foreign countries" (or something along those lines), as mentioned in the oath. And as far as the US is concerned, this is their way of saying "You're an American"....

However, as far as the other foreign country is concerned, on a technicality, one might still have rights to a former country, whether through birthright, or by any other means. And in order to give up a former country's citizenship, they must do so legally and in writing.

So, I am asking all of you...Have any of you thought about doing this legally and in writing? Have any of you actually ever gone though the legal process of renouncing/giving up ties to a former country? If so, how was that experience? Did you have to go through a foreign consulate/embassy to do such? Did they give you any problems regarding such? Did you encounter any problems regarding such?

I am thinking about renouncing any ties to my former birth country (note: it's not Canada, it's another birth country instead that I would rather not mention here on VJ, as I don't want to offend anyone that may still have ties to such a country), as it causes too many problems, confusion, and I don't have any ties to that country anymore. And I would like to do so legally in any way possible.....

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions/etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ant

I myself have not, but I have friends who have renounced citizenship in multiple European countries.

Essentially the procedure is pretty much the same, you show up at an embassy in person (most of the time consulates are not good enough unless it is a large one) fill out some paperwork and state your reason, pay the fee (between $1000 and $3200 from the countries I have heard of, milimelo mentioning $700 is comparably pretty low) sign some more papers, in some cases take and oath, surrender any documents you may have and you are done for.

Now here is the interesting part though, if you were born in that country, a lot of time you cannot completely lose it even with a renounciation. They will simply claim that you are a non citizen if anyone asks and you cannot call yourself one. But you can get it back. In Hungary for instance, if you were to go back to the authorities with your birth certificate (the interior department not an embassy) and state your reasons, they will reinstate your citizenship for a 'nominal' fee !

Hope that helps.

[milimelo 4,494]

I myself have not, but I have friends who have renounced citizenship in multiple European countries.

Essentially the procedure is pretty much the same, you show up at an embassy in person (most of the time consulates are not good enough unless it is a large one) fill out some paperwork and state your reason, pay the fee (between $1000 and $3200 from the countries I have heard of, milimelo mentioning $700 is comparably pretty low) sign some more papers, in some cases take and oath, surrender any documents you may have and you are done for.

Now here is the interesting part though, if you were born in that country, a lot of time you cannot completely lose it even with a renounciation. They will simply claim that you are a non citizen if anyone asks and you cannot call yourself one. But you can get it back. In Hungary for instance, if you were to go back to the authorities with your birth certificate (the interior department not an embassy) and state your reasons, they will reinstate your citizenship for a 'nominal' fee !

Hope that helps.

I just checked - it's $505 to do it in the country and if through a consulate you pay extra fees for "authentication of signature" - $385 just for that. They're insane!

Saw on another forum a Croatian person who has US citizenship - he sent the Croatian Embassy in DC I think snail mail saying he's renouncing his citizenship, didn't fill out some questionnaire they required (with full resume information and lots of other things). They wrote back to him saying they need more info and of course the fee... Have no idea what if anything he wrote back.

[sasaqlain 24]

US Allows dual citizenship. Why denounce and worry about stripping youself of your origin. I won't go around judging anybody for their dis-loyal statements but it does make me feel sorry to see such people.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Actually, the US doesn't 'allow' dual citizenship - it just pretends that the other citizenship doesn't exist. If they 'allowed' it, that would mean they would recognize it as still being an official citizenship in addition to the US citizenship - and they don't. Once you become a US citizen, as far as the US is concerned, you are only a US citizen. They have no control over the citizenship laws of other countries, however, so there is no real way they can 'enforce' US citizens to give up citizenship in another country as well. I have dual US and Canadian citizenship. To the US, I am only an American, formerly a Canadian. I am not both an American and a Canadian. To Canada which does officially recognizes and allows for more than one citizenship, I am both a Canadian and an American - not one or the other. That is the difference.

It seems like an expensive and time consuming process to renounce a previous citizenship, Ant. If it is also a 'corrupt' government running the country the likelihood of some sort of bribe in order to get it taken care of is probably pretty accurate. Good luck.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Kathryn41

[sasaqlain 24]

Kathryn41: Thank You for correcting me.

[NickD 203]

Kathryn41: Thank You for correcting me.

We thought, "don't ask, don't tell" was new with our military, when actually its been going on a lot longer with the DOS. I feel that of all people, the ones that should be way above board is our government. Like that statement, 'It ain't over until its over", the way it is now, it's never over. Could be my fault as well, should have married an orphan.

[Vijay 0]

I am an Indian and by law the Indian government says that I have got 90 days to renounce Indian citizenship if I acquire another country's citizenship. They also want a fee for that now. They also say that I am liable for prosecution if I don't renounce my Indian citizenship after getting US citizenship.

[Dana-Mića 51]

You are not the only one who would want to do that. I am by birth a citizen of one country and by choice of another (not the US) and I will be removing the birth country as soon as I am provided with proof that I will be able to keep the land (property) my family owns in the birth country (for sentimental reasons.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Danijela+Miroslav

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all your quick and helpful replies...

Here are my responses to all of you.....

Milimelo-No, it is not a former Yogoslavian country that I am talking about. However, the information you posted here is probably helpful to those from that country that want to pursue this option. But wow, $700 sure sounds like a lot of money!

As for getting a lawyer...Lol..I can't afford such, and even if I could, I don't know what lawyer would specialize in such a case (it's definitely not an immigration lawyer..as they only deal with US-immigration related issues...and that's not the case here...)....

NickD-Has your wife ever thought about giving up her Columbian citizenship, as you said that it caused problems with her US passport and for travel? I mean, why should she be forced to keep a Columbian passport when she's a Venezuelian citizen and US citizen and has a US passport already (unless she wilingly wants more than one passport..that's a different story...)? Is Columbia and Venezula aware of the fact that she is a US Citizen too? What about her Venezuelian passport? Does she travel with and have to renew that passport too? Also, what would happen if she gave up her birth country Columbian citizenship...Lol..I'm curious too....See I'm kind of in the same situation..I haven't lived in my other birth country for over 25+ years or so either (and in fact, I don't even speak or write their lanaguage either) and I will also submit other proof that I have no ties to this birth country (for example, legal paperwork proof)...I wonder if that would make a difference...or would it be like your wife's case...making no difference to them....hmm....Interesting point....

CaptainPenguin-Interesting to hear that your friends have reounced their former citizenship. Did they have any success with such? Glad to hear that it can be done this way. Interesting too, to hear the procedure for such. I guess I'll have to make arrangements to travel to a consulate and/or embassy to inquire further and arrange for such.

I have no problems taking an additional oath and giving up any paperwork that I have with that country either..(though all I have is a birth certificate...the passport was issued in my mother's name, so that's not mine...I don't have any other paperwork otherwise....)

See...That's the thing..I was born there....I am more than willing to give up my birth certificate..But the question is..Will they accept such? And what are my rights to that country exactly, be it that I was born there...I've asked numerious times about this..and I still get no answer....On one hand, I don't have citizenship to that country, because I acquired Canadian and American citizenships..(that country does not allow mulitple citizenships)...but on the other hand, I do have some rights to that country, because I was born there...That's confusing...lol.....

So renounciation is the way to go...After thinking about things carefully....

The question is (as I stated in my post topic)...How do I get such done and how is this done exactly?....Lol..I can't seem to find a straight-forward answer from the officials in regards to this..grr.....hence I turned to VJ for help...lol....

Lol..About the example with the country of Hungry....Actually my former birth country offered that option too....And even had the nerve to send that information about that to me...Umm..Thanks but no thanks......lol.....

Btw..I replied to your PM awhile ago about the passport option....I'm not sure if you received it or not (I've been having problems with PM lately..)...Anyways, I did inquire about that...and unfortunately, I found out that I couldn't do it this way as it was too costly and harder to prove on my end...It's a good idea, nevertheless...might work for others though..

Milimelo-Wow, $505+$385 is a lot of money to ge this done....That's insane, indeed! Which embassy/consulate was this?

Interesting to hear that someone on VJ was getting this done. Did they have any success with such? Glad to hear that it can be done this way, nevertheless....I wonder what happened afterwards......

Saspk-Well...The US has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding this, and in ways dual citizenship is not illegal in the USA....The US sees it as..."You're American first and only...".....They don't care about other countries' documents, nor is it against the law to carry such documents. However, they are contradictory in ways too. For example, in a US passport, they ask for country of birth, and yet, when one is naturalized as a US Citizen..isn't that like saying.."You're born in America"...So why is a former country mentioned at all? There are other issues too besides a passport, that I'm concerned about...but I would rather not spark another long debate here on VJ..lol...

As for dual citizenship..I'm a dual naturalized American citizen and naturalized Canadian citizen...

I have no problems with that combination...

Lol..What I don't need is triple citizenship/ties....

Especially to a birth country that I don't associate myself with and I do not consider myself 'originating' from.....

This is where the problem for me comes in, for travel purposes and for other purposes.....

Kathryn41-My thoughts exactly, on how I feel about American/Canadian citizesnhip! Thanks for explaining about that too, here on VJ....Likewise, I have dual Canadian/American citizenships....and have no problems with that combination..

Lol..In America I'm "American"...In Canada I'm "Canadian and American".....It works out fine...

In fact, I still travel with a Canadian passport to Canada...and they have no problems with that either....

However, my Canadian citizenship is unlike yours, as yours is a birthright, whereas mine is acquired through naturalization

And you have two countries to worry about, whereas I have three.....uggh......

(lol...on the other hand, my husband and my son only have one...lucky them....)

Lol..What I don't need is triple citizenship/ties to another birth country....Two is enough already!

Especially to a birth country that I don't associate myself with and I do not consider myself originating from.....

This is where the 'triple' problem for me comes in, for travel purposes and for other purposes.....

I'm trying to simplify my life...Only to find out that it is not as easy as I thought it would be...lol...

Sure it is a time-consuming and expensive process...But for my piece of mind...maybe it would be worth it in the end...

Lol..I have yet to find out...as I embark in my next non-immigration renounciation journey.......

I started finding about this renounciation process about 2 years ago.....I'm still not much better off than from where I started....But at least I'm trying to get somewhere with this....

Lol..Between dealing with the US Government, the Canadian Government, and this Other Country Government....

I have to wonder..."When is my Jouney ever going to end?....."

NickD-Lol..You're right in saying..."It is never over!".....I thought my journey ended with US Naturalization...Only to have it continue with this

I'm trying to simplify my life...Only to find out that it is not as easy as I thought it would be...lol...

Sure it is a time-consuming and expensive process...But for my piece of mind...maybe it would be worth it in the end...

Lol..I have yet to find out...as I embark in my next non-immigration renounciation journey.......

I started finding about this renounciation process about 2 years ago.....I'm still not much better off than from where I started....But at least I'm trying to get somewhere with this....

Lol..Between dealing with the US Government, the Canadian Government, and this Other Country Government....

I have to wonder..."When is my Jouney ever going to end?....."

Vijay-Wow, that's scary to think that you are liable to prosecution if you don't give up your Indian citizenship. If you don't mind me asking, are you going to be going through with such a process? How are you going to go through with such a process? Is it done in India, or do you do it through an embassy/consulate in the USA? I'm curious....And if you do ever get this done, good luck in your journey too.

I'm not from India, nor was I born in India..But this is an extreme example of what I mean about giving up ties to former countries....If a person does not legally give up ties to former countries after US Citizenship...It could mean other serious legal consequences too...So it's best to give it up legally, as to not cause any further problems down the road....

Danijela+Miroslav-I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one in this situation. Thanks for the reassurance. How are you going to get your birth country's citizenship renounced? Are you going to your former birth country to get this done, or are you going to get it done at a consulate/embassy here i nthe USA? I'm curious.....And if you do ever get this done, good luck in your journey too.

Thanks again, everyone, for all of your helpful replies!

I'll post more updates about my situation later on....As meanwhile this is still an ongoing matter....

Until then...Good luck to all on your journeys too!

Ant

[Vijay 0]

Actually I am going through the process of becoming an American citizen and I thought long and hard about this before starting on this process. We have to fill up a form and pay $170 fees and send it to the Indian consulate in NYC and after they process the form, I guess they send us back Surrender/Renunciation certificate. I am going to apply for OCI (Overseas Citizen of India), I guess OCI is India's version of dual citizenship.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Actually, the US doesn't 'allow' dual citizenship - it just pretends that the other citizenship doesn't exist.

Many people really needed to hear that coming from you, the Zookeeper. Had I made such a statement, they would have thrown me in he lions' cage.