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Obama 2012

Obamacare Screwed? More And More Doctors Abandoning Medicare Across The Country.

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Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Canada
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This is for those who just refuse to listen on the medicare issue...

It's only going to get worse.

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-06-20-medicare_N.htm

WASHINGTON — The number of doctors refusing new Medicare patients because of low government payment rates is setting a new high, just six months before millions of Baby Boomers begin enrolling in the government health care program.

Recent surveys by national and state medical societies have found more doctors limiting Medicare patients, partly because Congress has failed to stop an automatic 21% cut in payments that doctors already regard as too low. The cut went into effect Friday, even as the Senate approved a six-month reprieve. The House has approved a different bill.

• The American Academy of Family Physicians says 13% of respondents didn't participate in Medicare last year, up from 8% in 2008 and 6% in 2004.

• The American Osteopathic Association says 15% of its members don't participate in Medicare and 19% don't accept new Medicare patients. If the cut is not reversed, it says, the numbers will double.

• The American Medical Association says 17% of more than 9,000 doctors surveyed restrict the number of Medicare patients in their practice. Among primary care physicians, the rate is 31%.

The federal health insurance program for seniors paid doctors on average 78% of what private insurers paid in 2008.

"Physicians are saying, 'I can't afford to keep losing money,' " says Lori Heim, president of the family doctors' group.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services says 97% of doctors accept Medicare. The agency doesn't know how many have refused to take new Medicare patients, Deputy Administrator Jonathan Blum says. "Medicare beneficiaries have good access to physician services. We do have concerns about access to primary care physicians."

The AARP, the nation's largest consumer group representing seniors, is taking notice. Some U.S. areas already face a shortage of primary care physicians. Policy director John Rother says the trend away from Medicare threatens to make it worse.

States are starting to see a flight from Medicare:

•In Illinois, 18% of doctors restrict the number of Medicare patients in their practice, according to a medical society survey.

•In North Carolina, 117 doctors have opted out of Medicare since January, the state's medical society says.

•In New York, about 1,100 doctors have left Medicare. Even the medical society president isn't taking new Medicare patients.

"I'm making a statement," says Leah McCormack, a New York City dermatologist. "Many physicians are really being forced out of private practice."

Florida has the highest percentage of Medicare patients, and most doctors can't afford to leave the program. But "the level of frustration has been higher this year than I've ever seen it before," says Linda McMullen of the Florida Medical Association.


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And this surprises who??? :whistle:


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I feel for them but the market is going to adjust. If the supply of non medicare patients lowers (it will as baby boomers become eligible)they will have no choice but to accept medicare or shut their doors. Note what the article mentions about Florida.

Edited by Sousuke

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I feel for them but the market is going to adjust. If the supply of non medicare patients lowers (it will as baby boomers become eligible)they will have no choice but to except medicare or shut their doors. Note what the article mentions about Florida.

Well, it depends really.

While there are many doctors who can't necessarily afford to get rid of the patients, they can't afford to keep them either.

Medicare doesn't pay actual "cost" a lot of times. When it comes to procedures, etc. many doctors end up eating the cost somewhat. It's part of the reason why 'extra' tests are ordered and why there's so much fraud in medicare claims as well. It's the only way doctors can get paid. It's a nightmare and why many are choosing to do away with it.

I've seen reports in many cities here in Texas and across the country where upwards of 40%+ of doctors have stopped accepting medicare and/or medicaid due to the BS associated with it.

It's definitely going to be interesting once the boomers start jamming the system....


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Paul, I know you have few brain cells left. Can you put them on hyper-drive and make the help you conprehend that medicare has been around way before Barak *CryptoMuslim* Obama. Even way before George *Reptoid* Bush (the first one.) The reason doctors are ditching Medicare is exactly because of capitalim. Medicare doesn't pay well enough to the doctors. Doing X therapy on patient Y, gives the doctors $X from a commericial insurance company. Medicare keeps cutting back and the doctors gets $X-10% for doing the same junk. This is not Obama's fault. His shamenlike power is +9000 but he can't do everything single-handedly. Neither can the Reptoids. :P


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Well, it depends really.

While there are many doctors who can't necessarily afford to get rid of the patients, they can't afford to keep them either.

Medicare doesn't pay actual "cost" a lot of times. When it comes to procedures, etc. many doctors end up eating the cost somewhat. It's part of the reason why 'extra' tests are ordered and why there's so much fraud in medicare claims as well. It's the only way doctors can get paid. It's a nightmare and why many are choosing to do away with it.

I've seen reports in many cities here in Texas and across the country where upwards of 40%+ of doctors have stopped accepting medicare and/or medicaid due to the BS associated with it.

It's definitely going to be interesting once the boomers start jamming the system....

You'll probably see a niche market form. Constraints always spawn opportunities.

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I feel for them but the market is going to adjust. If the supply of non medicare patients lowers (it will as baby boomers become eligible)they will have no choice but to accept medicare or shut their doors. Note what the article mentions about Florida.

You missed the point. Most doctors are losing money from Medicare patients. Whether or not they can make it treating non-Medicare patients is, as you pointed out, dependent on their market and location. But if a doctor is going under, accepting Medicare patients isn't going to change that. Businesses run on profit not revenue. Treating more patients at a loss may increase revenue but won't increase profit.

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You missed the point. Most doctors are losing money from Medicare patients. Whether or not they can make it treating non-Medicare patients is, as you pointed out, dependent on their market and location. But if a doctor is going under, accepting Medicare patients isn't going to change that. Businesses run on profit not revenue. Treating more patients at a loss may increase revenue but won't increase profit.

And a there will be some who will figure out how to make a profit through streamlining their office. Like I said a niche market.

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You missed the point. Most doctors are losing money from Medicare patients. Whether or not they can make it treating non-Medicare patients is, as you pointed out, dependent on their market and location. But if a doctor is going under, accepting Medicare patients isn't going to change that. Businesses run on profit not revenue. Treating more patients at a loss may increase revenue but won't increase profit.

For many retailers if they priced their products like Walmart, they would loose money on every sale. But yet Walmart makes billions every year. The excuse of losing money more often than not comes from not running an efficient business or complaining about shrinking profit margins.

Care providers can't just keep pushing up prices at the rate they are and expect people to keep paying. There is already pushback and that will keep increasing. If care providers can adapt, they will survive, if they cannot, they will find it difficult to stay in business.


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For many retailers if they priced their products like Walmart, they would loose money on every sale. But yet Walmart makes billions every year. The excuse of losing money more often than not comes from not running an efficient business or complaining about shrinking profit margins.

Care providers can't just keep pushing up prices at the rate they are and expect people to keep paying. There is already pushback and that will keep increasing. If care providers can adapt, they will survive, if they cannot, they will find it difficult to stay in business.

So your saying you want Walmart like health care? :wacko:

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Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Canada
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Paul, I know you have few brain cells left. Can you put them on hyper-drive and make the help you conprehend that medicare has been around way before Barak *CryptoMuslim* Obama. Even way before George *Reptoid* Bush (the first one.) The reason doctors are ditching Medicare is exactly because of capitalim. Medicare doesn't pay well enough to the doctors. Doing X therapy on patient Y, gives the doctors $X from a commericial insurance company. Medicare keeps cutting back and the doctors gets $X-10% for doing the same junk. This is not Obama's fault. His shamenlike power is +9000 but he can't do everything single-handedly. Neither can the Reptoids. :P

Read what I said in my second post before going off on trying to 'explain' things to me.

In the original title I said "Obamacare Screwed" - If you know anything about Obamacare, you should know that there are deep medicare cuts laced in there right now... which doesn't bode well for this situation either.

Don't come in here flame baiting with insults, it's not necessary.


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The Great Canadian to Texas Transfer Timeline:

2/22/2010 - I-129F Packet Mailed

2/24/2010 - Packet Delivered to VSC

2/26/2010 - VSC Cashed Filing Fee

3/04/2010 - NOA1 Received!

8/14/2010 - Touched!

10/04/2010 - NOA2 Received!

10/25/2010 - Packet 3 Received!

02/07/2011 - Medical!

03/15/2011 - Interview in Montreal! - Approved!!!

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So your saying you want Walmart like health care? :wacko:

For many aliments and injuries, the treatments are very standardized. Unless you have some sort of pre-existing condition that would make the problem worse. You do not need to see an expensive doctor to get it treated. There are a lot of things that can be made standardized and care can be given in cheaper non-traditional settings.


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And a there will be some who will figure out how to make a profit through streamlining their office. Like I said a niche market.

You would have a point if we were in a buyer's market. The problem is, there is already a shortage of doctors and it's getting worse. Yes, doctors can try and scrimp to make a profit on meager Medicare payouts and it's probably possible. But why should they? From a doctor's point of view, there is so much low hanging fruit that there is going to be a lot of fruit left at the top of the tree.

You can complain about the unsustainability of rising healthcare costs but trying to punish and regulate doctors is only going to decrease the number of doctors and make the problem worse further driving up the price. The real solution is to increase medical residency limits and take other actions that allow us to increase the pool of doctors, which is presently limited by regulations.

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You would have a point if we were in a buyer's market. The problem is, there is already a shortage of doctors and it's getting worse. Yes, doctors can try and scrimp to make a profit on meager Medicare payouts and it's probably possible. But why should they? From a doctor's point of view, there is so much low hanging fruit that there is going to be a lot of fruit left at the top of the tree.

You can complain about the unsustainability of rising healthcare costs but trying to punish and regulate doctors is only going to decrease the number of doctors and make the problem worse further driving up the price. The real solution is to increase medical residency limits and take other actions that allow us to increase the pool of doctors, which is presently limited by regulations.

You can thank the AMA for that. As far as back as the 80's they have been limiting the amount of doctors in the field to boost wages.

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