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Religion and YOU - Religous Smörgåsbord - the Last Supper

Religous Smörgåsbord - the Last Supper  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Optimistic/Pessimistic? (choose one only for each of 6 religions)

    • Christianity Optimistic
    • Paganism Optimistic
    • Buddhism Optimistic
    • Islam Optimistic
    • Hinduism Optimistic
    • Judaism Optimistic
    • Christianity Pessimistic
    • Paganism Pessimistic
    • Buddhism Pessimistic
    • Islam Pessimistic
    • Hinduism Pessimistic
    • Judaism Pessimistic
  2. 2. I am - which religion

  3. 3. How serious (or not) am I about religion?

    • Observe "religiously" and attend weekly
    • Observe "religiously" and don't usuallyattend weekly
    • Main holidays only
    • Non-observant but I still believe
    • Aethist


39 posts in this topic

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By now you've already forgotten the advice to attack the post and not the poster,

but be that as it may, I feel honored when I am attacked by such a distinguished

"team of experts."devil.gif

Sometimes when I select reading material, I look for things that have never been interests of mine in the past.

Such is the work of the German philosopher, Albert Schopenhauer (1788-1860).

My reason for this interest is that in the memoirs of Anthony Quinn (One Man Tango),

he often repeated how much Shopenhauer had influenced his life and thought.

The reason for this post is this =>

Halfway through a book about Schopenhauer, it was mentioned that he grouped

6 religious philosophies into 2 categories:

"Optimistic and Pessimistic"

Christianity

Paganism

Buddhism

Islam

Hinduism (Brahmanism to him)

Judaism

I have jumbled the religions in a random order so you don't know which group Schopenhauer put them into.

I want to see, more than 100 years after Schopenhauer's death if modern perceptions have any link to his,

or if there is no link at all.

Posts are welcome but try to keep it civil, as you will be commenting about other religions and not just your own.

Note:

I didn't have room to ask the question if instead of optimistic/pessimistic, the words "greedy/selfish" or

"selfless/fatalistic"might be substituted...you may wish to comment on that in your posts.

Edited by thongd4me

02/2003 - Met

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04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

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*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Interesting poll...hopefully the thread won't get derailed.

Optimistic:

Christianity

Paganism

Buddhism

Pessimistic:

Islam

Hinduism

Judaism

although I tend to find points of both optimism and pessimism in all religions. Also, I would be interested in the name of the book! good.gif


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Interesting poll...hopefully the thread won't get derailed.

Optimistic:

Christianity

Paganism

Buddhism

Pessimistic:

Islam

Hinduism

Judaism

although I tend to find points of both optimism and pessimism in all religions. Also, I would be interested in the name of the book! good.gif

"Schopenhauer" by Robert Wicks

I have to be honest in that it's a VERY HEAVY read; Quinn's autobiography in contrast was a delight, an absolute joy to read.

I would highly recommend "One Man Tango" by Anthony Quinn. He was more introspective and full of self-

doubt than I had anticipated. He had lots of notches in his romantic gun but he wasn't the braggart I expected

him to be.

I'm only beginning to see Schopenhauer's views in a clearer light after having run through the first half, which was largely

about his differences/similarities with Hegel, Kant and other philosophers. I have never studied the works of either, so

this was kind of hard to wade through.

I might browse other books about Schopenhauer and maybe look for translations of works written by him, but it's not

a big thing on my to-do list, maybe after retirement.

Thank you for your post.

Edited by thongd4me

02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

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*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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This was difficult for me. I'm assuming that the categories are based on beliefs in afterlife, but I have to say I started having doubts about the exact teachings about an afterlife with regards to each of the religions listed. Also, I would have thought there would be at least 4 of those religions that believe in an afterlife, but your post said there was an equal split. That really threw me off.

Also, none of the categories for my observation of faith really apply. I chose the one that comes closest.

If I were to take this poll tomorrow, I would probably give different answers for the first and last items.


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This was difficult for me. I'm assuming that the categories are based on beliefs in afterlife, but I have to say I started having doubts about the exact teachings about an afterlife with regards to each of the religions listed. Also, I would have thought there would be at least 4 of those religions that believe in an afterlife, but your post said there was an equal split. That really threw me off.

Also, none of the categories for my observation of faith really apply. I chose the one that comes closest.

If I were to take this poll tomorrow, I would probably give different answers for the first and last items.

"Afterlife" - interesting assumption, equally valid, but it was my take that he assigned 3 to one

category and 3 to another based on the way the observers saw their lives in the present and

how they should conduct themselves according to their faith.

For the purposes of this poll, "Paganism" and "Polytheism" are synonymous.

I noted that one respondent didn't put Christianity into either the optimistic or pessimistic side.

I don't know if that was on purpose or not...


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Morocco
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I also voted with an afterlife in mind, and thus grouped Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam in optimistic and Judaism and Paganism in pessimistic. Although I suppose Buddhism could also go in pessimistic.

I didn't feel that any of the options in the 3rd question really describe me.

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I also voted with an afterlife in mind, and thus grouped Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam in optimistic and Judaism and Paganism in pessimistic. Although I suppose Buddhism could also go in pessimistic.

I didn't feel that any of the options in the 3rd question really describe me.

All answers are valid; you chose to split them 4/2 while Schopenhauer's analysis was 3/3

(I won't vote here so as to not tip the balance in any way, but when I think it's run it's course

I will tell you Schopenhauer's view and attempt to explain why).


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Benin
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"Afterlife" - interesting assumption, equally valid, but it was my take that he assigned 3 to one

category and 3 to another based on the way the observers saw their lives in the present and

how they should conduct themselves according to their faith.

For the purposes of this poll, "Paganism" and "Polytheism" are synonymous.

I noted that one respondent didn't put Christianity into either the optimistic or pessimistic side.

I don't know if that was on purpose or not...

Interesting. Hmm. That throws a whole new light on things. It also makes it much harder for me to categorize. I also wonder how deeply he got into each religion and what his religious biases were as he made the list. With regard to optimism and pessimism, understanding someone's outlook on life and the whys and ways they lead it as a result of their religious views would be deeply, deeply personal. Religion could make a general impact, but personality would have as much or more to do with it. An argument could be made, as personality is genetic and our religious views are generally chosen by our parents from whom we also get our DNA, that if you find a trend within a religion, it could be as much personality as the influences of the religion itself. But I guess I'm overthinking this.

I would be interested in seeing his categories, but I don't have time to read the book. Do you plan to reveal them at some point?


AOS Timeline

4/14/10 - Packet received at Chicago Lockbox at 9:22 AM (Day 1)

4/24/10 - Received hardcopy NOAs (Day 10)

5/14/10 - Biometrics taken. (Day 31)

5/29/10 - Interview letter received 6/30 at 10:30 (Day 46)

6/30/10 - Interview: 10:30 (Day 77) APPROVED!!!

6/30/10 - EAD received in the mail

7/19/10 - GC in hand! (Day 96) .

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Interesting. Hmm. That throws a whole new light on things. It also makes it much harder for me to categorize. I also wonder how deeply he got into each religion and what his religious biases were as he made the list. With regard to optimism and pessimism, understanding someone's outlook on life and the whys and ways they lead it as a result of their religious views would be deeply, deeply personal. Religion could make a general impact, but personality would have as much or more to do with it. An argument could be made, as personality is genetic and our religious views are generally chosen by our parents from whom we also get our DNA, that if you find a trend within a religion, it could be as much personality as the influences of the religion itself. But I guess I'm overthinking this.

I would be interested in seeing his categories, but I don't have time to read the book. Do you plan to reveal them at some point?

As I said there were 6 religions, 3 being called optimistic and 3 called pessimistic by him.

You could try but I don't think you would find that analysis online, but suffice it to say he

was greatly influenced by Buddhism and the Upanishads. Yes I plan to reveal them at some

time (maybe after a few hundred responses) but I wouldn't close the poll after I had revealed

them. I just don't want the initial responses influenced by his philosophy or anything I might say.

Anyone can find references to him online. I wouldn't recommend going out and getting this

book, I don't expect anyone else to have my curiousity about him, as I said in a previous post.

This particular assignment of optimistic/pessimistic religions fascinated me so that I made a

poll about it. Reading this article probably won't give many clues as to what he was thinking,

but it is a clearer, more concise analysis of his life and philosophy. The ladies may be surprised

to learn that he was a (positive) influence on the feminist movement.

Schopenhauer - Wikipedia


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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I guess I took it from a combination of the afterlife and during-life perspective, focusing more on the answer to "why are we here" that each one offers.

Unfortunately, I'm quite only a casual observer on these religions except Christianity (as you might expect from an American).

I put all of the Abrahamic religions as pessimistic, mostly because of their exclusivity - the idea that only the people who believe as they do get to reap the rewards promised - there's no room for good people who don't think the exact same way. That's where I think a lot of the religious tensions come from, and the aggressive conversion efforts.

I know a lot less about Peganism, Buddhism and Hinduism, but they seem to deal more with what you can do in life, with more practical advice, and how you should act, but my completely uneducated impression is that the goal is self-betterment rather than chasing after any kind of 'eternal reward'. Also, there is a lot less pressure to convert people, and I feel (uneducated opinion, remember!) that there is less need for labeling as insider vs. outsider.

PS: I didn't know you were one of the people being discussed in the respond to the post not the poster debate...:)

Edited by Nik+Heather

K-1:

January 28, 2009: NOA1

June 4, 2009: Interview - APPROVED!!!

October 11, 2009: Wedding

AOS:

December 23, 2009: NOA1!

January 22, 2010: Bogus RFE corrected through congressional inquiry "EAD waiting on biometrics only" Read about it here.

March 15, 2010: AOS interview - RFE for I-693 vaccination supplement - CS signed part 6!

March 27, 2010: Green Card recieved

ROC:

March 1, 2012: Mailed ROC package

March 7, 2012: Tracking says "notice left"...after a phone call to post office.

More detailed time line in profile.

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I guess I took it from a combination of the afterlife and during-life perspective, focusing more on the answer to "why are we here" that each one offers.

Unfortunately, I'm quite only a casual observer on these religions except Christianity (as you might expect from an American).

I put all of the Abrahamic religions as pessimistic, mostly because of their exclusivity - the idea that only the people who believe as they do get to reap the rewards promised - there's no room for good people who don't think the exact same way. That's where I think a lot of the religious tensions come from, and the aggressive conversion efforts.

I know a lot less about Peganism, Buddhism and Hinduism, but they seem to deal more with what you can do in life, with more practical advice, and how you should act, but my completely uneducated impression is that the goal is self-betterment rather than chasing after any kind of 'eternal reward'. Also, there is a lot less pressure to convert people, and I feel (uneducated opinion, remember!) that there is less need for labeling as insider vs. outsider.

PS: I didn't know you were one of the people being discussed in the respond to the post not the poster debate...smile.gif

No I wasn't mentioned by name and I didn't respond to that thread, however there were numerous

times when I felt I was being flamed by personal attacks rather than simply responding to my comments.

As a rule I don't respond to such attacks because the fact that they are made shows the offender in

a less than approving light. Often my friends will come to my defence by being puzzled by such posts,

but I don't wish to drag them into this kind of schoolyard one-upmanship.

So far this thread has been free of any such attacks. I tried to formulate it in a way that will provoke

thought and not anger. All of the responses have been very thoughtful. I hope we all can learn things

by the posts in this poll whether we hold religion in high esteem or whether we avoid religion

in any shape or form.


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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Filed: Other Country: Afghanistan
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No I wasn't mentioned by name and I didn't respond to that thread, however there were numerous

times when I felt I was being flamed by personal attacks rather than simply responding to my comments.

As a rule I don't respond to such attacks because the fact that they are made shows the offender in

a less than approving light. Often my friends will come to my defence by being puzzled by such posts,

but I don't wish to drag them into this kind of schoolyard one-upmanship.

So far this thread has been free of any such attacks. I tried to formulate it in a way that will provoke

thought and not anger. All of the responses have been very thoughtful. I hope we all can learn things

by the posts in this poll whether we hold religion in high esteem or whether we avoid religion

in any shape or form.

Can we hear his answers?

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Can we hear his answers?

I don't think that's appropriate for this thread, but I did give you a clear answer in a PM.

Thank you for the "OT and YOU" poll.good.gif


02/2003 - Met

08/24/09 I-129F; 09/02 NOA1; 10/14 NOA2; 11/24 interview; 11/30 K-1 VISA (92 d); 12/29 POE 12/31/09 Marriage

03/29/-04/06/10 - AOS sent/rcd; 04/13 NOA1; AOS 2 NBC

04/14 $1010 cashed; 04/19 NOA1

04/28 Biom.

06/16 EAD/AP

06/24 Infops; AP mail

06/28 EAD mail; travel 2 BKK; return 07/17

07/20/10 interview, 4d. b4 I-129F anniv. APPROVAL!*

08/02/10 GC

08/09/10 SSN

2012-05-16 Lifting Cond. - I-751 sent

2012-06-27 Biom,

2013-01-10 7 Mo, 2 Wks. & 5 days - 10 Yr. PR Card (no interview)

*2013-04-22 Apply for citizenship (if she desires at that time) 90 days prior to 3yr anniversary of P. Residence

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I can't really say what exactly moved me to group the way I did-I thought of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam as pessimistic, making Paganism, Buddhism, and Hinduism optimistic. Was just a gut feeling I suppose. ;)

While I find religion fascinating I am definitely not a religious person-I chose Atheist but I would consider myself more of an Agnostic.

Am curious on this one. :)


24q38dy.jpg

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