Religion and YOU - Religous Smörgåsbord - the Last Supper

[Welshcookie 17]

Well I couldn't participate in your poll because your first question omitted us Atheists

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I don't think that's appropriate for this thread, but I did give you a clear answer in a PM.

Thank you for the "OT and YOU" poll.

Oops! I highlited the wrong post of yours, I meant to highlite your first post, by he I was refering to Albert.

[thongd4me 69]

Oops! I highlited the wrong post of yours, I meant to highlite your first post, by he I was refering to Albert.

He grouped them into 3 being optimistic and 3 being pessimistic.

As far as I can see, all of the replies where the responses were

listed in a post have not matched his groupings. I want to have

a few hundred responses before I give his; I am beginning to

understand why the responses don't match his, but they make

perfect sense to those who are making them.

I want to see responses unbiased by anything he wrote, because

then the answers would be based on whether the respondents

agreed or disagreed with him rather than on independent thought.

As I said you can look him up in Wikipedia and elsewhere but

these "groupings" are an obscure comment that I found in a

book about him.

[thongd4me 69]

Well I couldn't participate in your poll because your first question omitted us Atheists

My sincerest apologies but I only listed the categories that Schopenhauer used,

but haven't ignored you in the other questions. Not believing is a good and valid

choice but the last time I checked it's not a religion.

I learn something new every day.

I'll have to start reading up on the Big Atheist in the sky.

Does he have a special name and what's the address of his church?

I tried to edit the first question to include Atheists but they don't allow that at this late stage

PS - I'm a big fan of Wallace & Gromit

"Cheeze!"

Edited May 28, 2010 by thongd4me

[thongd4me 69]

Well I couldn't participate in your poll because your first question omitted us Atheists

Mea Culpa!

I did misspell Atheist as "Aethist" but if you'll cut me some slack you can participate.

Is the Atheist God a forgiving one?

[Jenn! 918]

I want to have

a few hundred responses before I give his; I

I don't think you'll get that here.

[thongd4me 69]

I want to have

a few hundred responses before I give his

I don't think you'll get that here.

You may be right, but I'll play it by ear. Religion may or may not be such a hot topic as it

was in Schopenhauer's time, but in some countries it's right up there at the top.

The responses have been kind of lop-sided* because those responding are overwhelmingly Christian.

I'd like to see more responses from other groups before I show what his groupings were.

I don't consider him or anyone that posts here to be right or wrong, but it's interesting to

see the responses.

*by this I mean the responses seem to be made in response to whether the respondent thinks

a given religion is "good" or bad related to his/her religion. Some of the responses closest to

Schopenhauer's have been Atheists, yet Schopenhauer was not necessarily one of them.

His take on "optimistic" or "pessimistic" does not mean that pessimistic is bad and vice versa.

It's more of an outlook or mind-set than a judgment of character or worth as a person.

Edited May 28, 2010 by thongd4me

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't get the optimistic or pessimistic options. I guess the only thing you could say is that there are differences between the religions on how they relate the human condition to that of the deity/deities, essentially for some religions the actions of humans are predetermined and immutable regardless of what the human thinks and does while other religions allow for free will and a changeable outcome although even those distinctions can be muddled and blurry.

At the end of the day, I simply don't care enough about it. There are aspects of 'religion' that I think are helpful to the human condition but for every one of those there is another aspect that causes harm.

Religious fellowship is probably the most useful part of organized religion because it allows for a much more cohesive and mutually supportive society. I think that's something that should be looked, particularly for those who have no belief in a deity, but who very much believe in providing a structure within which individuals and families can give each other support in dealing with the day to day aspirations and tragedies of every day life.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

1. Christianity Pessimistic (for short term, if you read Bible you'll understand--but optimistic for eternal term)
2. Christian
3. attend weekly and rigourously

[Welshcookie 17]

Mea Culpa!

I did misspell Atheist as "Aethist" but if you'll cut me some slack you can participate.

Is the Atheist God a forgiving one?

I don't know about an Atheist God being forgiving but I am What I should have said is that I couldn't physically complete your poll because of the first question, I am none of those and I am neither optimistic or pessimistic

[thongd4me 69]

I don't know about an Atheist God being forgiving but I am What I should have said is that I couldn't physically complete your poll because of the first question, I am none of those and I am neither optimistic or pessimistic

No problem that was "tongue in cheek" but regardless of your leanings the first question is your view of how other religions are either optimistic or pessimistic.

It's perfectly OK to be neither optimistic nor pessimistic but if you substitute pessimistic with "fatalistic" for each of the 6 religions that might bring an idea forward.

[thongd4me 69]

No problem that was "tongue in cheek" but regardless of your leanings the first question is your view of how other religions are either optimistic or pessimistic.

It's perfectly OK to be neither optimistic nor pessimistic but if you substitute pessimistic with "fatalistic" for each of the 6 religions that might bring an idea forward.

Let me elaborate - It's not what Schopenhauer means if one thinks that

good = optimistic and bad = pessimistic, i.e. that if

one's religion is thought to be good that's optimistic and if

another religion is bad it's thought of as being pessimistic...

'...Schopenhauer advocates asceticism -- an austere lifestyle that requires the

minimization of earthly pleasures, cravings, and satisfactions.

Often associated with monks and monasteries, this lifestyle focuses on self-sacrifiece,

stilness, renunciation, detachment from bodily desires, spiritual discipline, resignation,

self-knowledge, self-purification, self-imposed poverty, and deep meditation.

The phrase Schopenhauer uses to describe this attitude is the "denial of the will to live."'

- From "Schopenhauer" by Robert Wicks

This "denial of the will to live" is what Schopenhauer means by pessimistic.

He looks at it as an ideal rather than a negative trait.

Therefore, you would select "optimistic" for the religions that affirm free will

and the will to live according to Schopenhauer's paradigm.

Edited June 1, 2010 by thongd4me

[ValerieA 350]

='thongd4me' date='01 June 2010 - 09:26 AM' timestamp='1275402393' post='3971425']

Therefore, you would select "optimistic" for the religions that affirm free will

and the will to live according to Schopenhauer's paradigm.[/b]

I thought I was doing that.

[Jenn! 918]

goodness gracious, will you just tell us the right answer already, my head hurts.

[thongd4me 69]

goodness gracious, will you just tell us the right answer already, my head hurts.

I understand your eagerness, but I'm not talking about "right" answers but those Schopenhauer proposed.

Before I give Schopenhauer's answers,

I would first like to have 2 things satisfied - at least one respondent that matched Schopenhauer's answers,

as well as a few respondents professing an association with Judaism and Islam in their native-born culture.

I'm not waiting for a hundred or more responses, but I think those two are within the realm of possibility.

Christians & Atheists have been very forthcoming, but I'd like to hear from more of those in the minority,

not only Jews & Muslims.

Edited June 1, 2010 by thongd4me