Being citizens of both countries?

[Kayleigh+Kyle 0]

I know that it's possible for both the USC and immigrant to both become citizens of both countries. I'm wondering if anyone has done this, especially with Canada. I'm just kind of looking for the timeline that you took and how it went. Thank you!

[Krikit 1,163]

You'll find lots of Canadians in the Canada Forum who have done this. Seems to be relatively quick, compared to the rest of the process. I'm sure Kathryn or Ant or someone will be around to comment.

[BriCar 0]

I know that it's possible for both the USC and immigrant to both become citizens of both countries. I'm wondering if anyone has done this, especially with Canada. I'm just kind of looking for the timeline that you took and how it went. Thank you!

I don't think it's looked on too favourably a USC being anything but a USC.

As a Canadian I remember during the oath ceremony when I was naturalized swearing I had

"no allegience to any foriegn power".

And I knew a lady who had some grief as a USC moving back to the US after a few year stay in Canada because she had a part time government job for the Park Service and had to say some kind of oath about the Queen!?

[ron&nadine 0]

We are thinking of this also. We were told before we got married by a US Navy (3 chevrons)guy, that once I had my USC that we should go after my husband's Canadian citizenship. We have been thinking about it more and more but as of yet not looked into it. That said, I'll be following this post to see what comes up.

Nadine

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Lol..As Krikit said...Kathryn or Ant would come by......

So here I (Ant) am....(lol..Kathryn will probably stop by shortly).....

I'm a naturalized citizen of the USA (which I did last year as an adult)....

and a naturalized citizen of Canada (which I did as a child).....

And yes, I am keeping both citizenships...

Basically, you can keep both citizenships, with no problems...

In summary....

The US citizenship process takes 4-6 months on average, depending on when you get an interview date, and when you get an oath ceremony date. You can apply based on the 3yr marriage to a USC rule, or based on the 5yr general rule. Currently, it costs $675, and in the end, you get a naturalization certificate.....

The steps are as follows..

1) Fill out the N-400 application form, send in the application fee, send in passport sized photos, etc.

2) Get an NOA/receipt in the mail

3) Go for fingerprints/biometrics. Pick up study guide for civics/history test

4) Study for the test

5) Go for the interview, done by an immigration officer. Pass the interview.

6) Go for the (usually group) oath ceremony. Swear an allegiance to the USA. Get your naturalization certificate.

7) Get a US passport and/or other US travel documents. You cannot leave the USA and re-enter without such!

For more detailed information about my experiences, you can read more here....

N-400: Ant’s Citizenship INTERVIEW PASSED.…BUT….(Part 1 of 2)…. (11/18/09) My Helpful Very Detailed N-400 Buffalo, NY Experience Here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/229435-n-400-ants-citizenship-interview-passedbutpart-1-of-2/page__p__3505984__fromsearch__1entry3505984

ANT IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN! OATH CEREMONY DETAILED STORY…. (11/23/09) My Immigration Journey Is Over…3+ years and 2500 posts later: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/230817-ant-is-an-american-citizen-oath-ceremony-detailed-story/page__p__3529954__fromsearch__1entry3529954

As well, you can read more information on my detailed VJ timeline......

Note: My timeline was somewhat faster than average, and I only completed the process in 2 1/2 months....As well, I had a non-traditional private oath ceremony, which was different from the usual group oath ceremony too (I'm sure someone else can elaborate on the group oath ceremony experience further...).

The Canadian citizenship process takes a few months on average (I can't remember the exact number), depending on your interview date, and when you get an oath ceremony date. I think the general application rule for everyone is 3-4 years, after one has become a permanent resident (there is a Canadian version of a green card nowadays, as opposed to a record of landing paper, I think). Citizenship costs a few $100-500 or so (I can't remember the exact cost either, but back in my day, it was $100 or so), and in the end, you get a paper citizenship certificate, and wallet-sized citizenship card...

-There is an interview and a Canadian history/civics test too, which is done before an immigration judge. When you pass the interview, then you have a big group oath ceremony. The oath involves swearing an allegiance to the Queen, and the ceremony is done before an immigration judge. Lol..my experiences are a bit foggy here, but I'm sure I can remember a bit more, if I find my old photos...lol....

Basically, both naturalization/citizenship experiences are quite similar....

Though I admit, I think that the US immigration process is a lot more difficult and a lot more time comsuming and stressful. Oh well....I'm just glad that it's all over....and that I am now a Dual American/Canadian citizen!

For travel purposes...

To Canada: Travel with a Canadian passport and US passport/other documents. Canada officially allows dual citizenship, so there should be no problems there. Declare citizenship as "Canadian".

Back to the USA: Travel with a US passport/other documents only. Technically, the USA frowns upon dual citizenship, and only sees you as an "American" when travelling as a US Citizen. Do not declare anything else....

Travel with both passports. Use the one that is advantageous to you when travelling to another country

You can read more about one of my travel experiences as a dual citizen here....

Ant’s First Travelling as a Dual Citizen between USA and Canada… Made it back alive! Snowstorms, baby, birds, and all!

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/232477-ants-first-travelling-as-a-dual-citizen-between-usa-and-canada/page__p__3560537__fromsearch__1entry3560537

As for children...

They can be dual citizens of both countries too, based on the dual citizenships of their parents...

(lol..Though I have yet to do this with my American-born son, though....)

But yes, it can be done, and voila...The kids are dual too!

CBRA/US Passport/Certificate of Naturalization is done for a Canadian child that is American through an American parent.

Citizenship Card/Canadian Passport is done for an American child that is Canadian through a Canadian parent.

However, spouses are another story...They have to go through the entire immigration process, from scratch....

As keeping/giving up citizenship...

You can keep the Candian one....But if you want to give it up, you have to do so legally in writing to the Canadian consulate/embassy. Lol..But who wants to give up Canadian citizenship?

You can keep the American one...Again, if you want to give it up, you have to do so legally in writing with an American consulate/embassy. Lol..But who wants to give up American citizenship?

Anyways, I hope this helps. Feel free to ask me and/or others more questions here on VJ about such too....

Good luck on the rest of your immigration journeys too...

Ant

[antda 13]

P.S. Just in case anyone else is curious...(and/or needs a good laugh....)

To go from scratch (without actually being born in or having parents born in either country of Canada and the USA...)

The whole process of both naturalizations takes about 10 years or so........

3-5 years for American citizenship via naturalization, 3-4 years for Canadian citizenship via naturalization....

And yes, I've been through both....lol...

It definitely makes me appreciate being a dual citizen of American and the USA even more!.

(lol..especially in having hard-to-replace citizenship/naturalization documents too...uggh..what a nightmare to replace....)

Ant

Edited April 6, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[Kathryn41 3,205]

So here I am checking in as well !

Yes, the United States does not officially recognize dual citizenship but because they can't really do anything about it they just sort of turn a blind eye to it. As far as they are concerned, you are a US citizen and everything else is unimportant. Canada does recognize multiple citizenships so to Canada you would be both a Canadian and a US citizen.

As Ant mentioned, when you travel to Canada you would use your Canadian passport and when you travel to the US you would use your US passport. You have obligations to both countries, however, so you need to be aware of that and make sure you aren't facing divided loyalties. For me, there is no conflict now nor in the foreseeable future.

The easiest way to handle this is to wait until you as the Canadian immigrant have your US citizenship as that will allow you to leave the US and live elsewhere while still retaining the right to return to the US to live and work.

There are two ways to apply: 1) You would return to Canada as a returning resident and your husband would accompany you on a Temporary Resident - (Visitor's) Visa. They used to be available in such circumstances at the border but if not you can apply for one at Citizenship and Immigration Canada. He has to be intending to live in Canada to obtain a Canadian Permanent Residency. Then, from inside Canada you would jointly submit the Spousal Sponsorship/Permanent Residency application package. He would need security checks from wherever he lived (each State plus the FBI), and an immigration medical. Once the application is 'approved in principle' he can apply for permission to work as well while waiting for the final paperwork to be processed. He would then be approved as a Permanent Resident and would have to leave Canada to enter officially as a Permanent Resident at the border.

2) The other option is to apply from outside of the US. Again, you must be intending to return to Canada and provide evidence of that. The process is basically the same but your husband is residing outside of Canada until he receives approval in principle or the PR status. You are certainly allowed to visit or you could remain living with him in the US until you return to Canada.

After 3 years as a Permanent resident (and up to 1 year of legal residency in Canada prior to becoming a Permanent Resident at the rate of 1 day for every 2 days of residency counts towards that total) he is eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship. There is a test that has 2 parts - Canada wide information and Regional information - a written language proficiency test and an interview involved.

There is more information on the Canadian Citizenship and Immigration website. Here is the link to Spousal sponsorship: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse.asp .

Canadian immigration is a lot more family friendly than US immigration, and really do mean it when they say they put a priority on family reunification. As Krikit mentioned, there are Canadian-American couples in the Canada Regional Forum here on VJ who are living in Canada as PRs/citizens as well ones living in the US. They have been or are going through the process and have a wealth of experience available.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Yes, the United States does not officially recognize dual citizenship but because they can't really do anything about it they just sort of turn a blind eye to it.

Well,

I take issue with that statement. Here is what they could do about it, if they WANTED to:

"The Oath of Allegiance requires that any foreigner applying for naturalization is required to give up any and all other citizenships held within a reasonable amount of time after having become a US citizen. Proof of this has to be submitted to USCIS not later than 1 calender year after naturalization. Naturalized US citizens who fail to comply with this mandate, will be stripped of their US citizenship."

Pretty easy, isn't it?

[antda 13]

So here I am checking in as well !

Yes, the United States does not officially recognize dual citizenship but because they can't really do anything about it they just sort of turn a blind eye to it. As far as they are concerned, you are a US citizen and everything else is unimportant. Canada does recognize multiple citizenships so to Canada you would be both a Canadian and a US citizen.

As Ant mentioned, when you travel to Canada you would use your Canadian passport and when you travel to the US you would use your US passport. You have obligations to both countries, however, so you need to be aware of that and make sure you aren't facing divided loyalties. For me, there is no conflict now nor in the foreseeable future.

The easiest way to handle this is to wait until you as the Canadian immigrant have your US citizenship as that will allow you to leave the US and live elsewhere while still retaining the right to return to the US to live and work.

There are two ways to apply: 1) You would return to Canada as a returning resident and your husband would accompany you on a Temporary Resident - (Visitor's) Visa. They used to be available in such circumstances at the border but if not you can apply for one at Citizenship and Immigration Canada. He has to be intending to live in Canada to obtain a Canadian Permanent Residency. Then, from inside Canada you would jointly submit the Spousal Sponsorship/Permanent Residency application package. He would need security checks from wherever he lived (each State plus the FBI), and an immigration medical. Once the application is 'approved in principle' he can apply for permission to work as well while waiting for the final paperwork to be processed. He would then be approved as a Permanent Resident and would have to leave Canada to enter officially as a Permanent Resident at the border.

2) The other option is to apply from outside of the US. Again, you must be intending to return to Canada and provide evidence of that. The process is basically the same but your husband is residing outside of Canada until he receives approval in principle or the PR status. You are certainly allowed to visit or you could remain living with him in the US until you return to Canada.

After 3 years as a Permanent resident (and up to 1 year of legal residency in Canada prior to becoming a Permanent Resident at the rate of 1 day for every 2 days of residency counts towards that total) he is eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship. There is a test that has 2 parts - Canada wide information and Regional information - a written language proficiency test and an interview involved.

There is more information on the Canadian Citizenship and Immigration website. Here is the link to Spousal sponsorship: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse.asp .

Canadian immigration is a lot more family friendly than US immigration, and really do mean it when they say they put a priority on family reunification. As Krikit mentioned, there are Canadian-American couples in the Canada Regional Forum here on VJ who are living in Canada as PRs/citizens as well ones living in the US. They have been or are going through the process and have a wealth of experience available.

Kathryn41-Lol..I knew you would check in here soon... (lol..I guess we duals stick together...)

Interesting too, that you outlined about the Canadian immigration experience in detail...

I knew it was difficult, but not that difficult (lol..then again, I immigrated to Canada as a minor..and things were different then...). So it's interesting that you outlined about such too...Good to learn something new, indeed!

I'll definitely have to outline my Canadian naturalization experience someday....(lol..I have to find those photos first..then I'll write out the story here on VJ...maybe that would help too...)...

Oh, here are some perks about Canadian immigration too: There is no 'affidavit of support' type of an agreement. Basically, there is a sponsor, but the guidelines are less strict than the American ones. As well, (as you pointed out too) time outside of Canada can be used towards immigration, whereas time outside of the USA cannot be used towards immigration, and can in fact be used against you if one is a permanent resident and is out of the country too long. There is no "conditional Canadian green card" to prove marriage either, as once a person gets a "Canadian Permanent Resident card", it is pretty much valid for a few years, until one decides to pursue Canadian citizenship. Canadians allow for same-sex couples and couples in common law relationships to immigrate too. In terms of the citizenship test, most of the questions are pretty much historical/political/cultural in nature. There is a study booklet that goes along with the test too, and pretty much the questions are like, "Who is the premier of your province?", "What does the house of commons do?", "Who is the governor general of Canada", and stuff like that...lol...Not too hard, really..

Lol..The USA is overall stricter in terms of immigration process. The Canadian system is a lot more easier to go through.

So as Kathryn said....Go through the USA process first, then go through the Canadian one....It's easier that way....

Lol...And as for the loyalties thing...Canadians are loyal to Canada. Americans are loyal to the USA. Don't cross the lines!

Lol..Don't worry though there won't be another War of 1812 (lol..or war of 2012)..So being loyal to both is ok for now...

Good luck to all in your dual citizenship journeys too.

Ant

P.S. And yes, by all means, you are all welcomed to the Canada VJ forum! Lol..We even serve timbits and tim hortons coffee there from time to time......!

[antda 13]

Well,

I take issue with that statement. Here is what they could do about it, if they WANTED to:

"The Oath of Allegiance requires that any foreigner applying for naturalization is required to give up any and all other citizenships held within a reasonable amount of time after having become a US citizen. Proof of this has to be submitted to USCIS not later than 1 calender year after naturalization. Naturalized US citizens who fail to comply with this mandate, will be stripped of their US citizenship."

Pretty easy, isn't it?

Just Bob......

Lol..They already took away my green card.....(that was cruel enough already, especially since I paid so much for and waited so long for the card)

By no means are they taking away any my naturalization certificates and/or passports!

They cannot take what does not belong to them, issued from other countries.....

If I want to give up citizenship to any other country..fine, that is of my own choosing...not up to the US government to decide that! It's like another country taking away US-issued documents...

Lol..Let's just say there will be world war III if that happens!

Besides, the USCIS has better things to do and needs to be more competent in other ways....

Really...

Ant

[Kayleigh+Kyle 0]

Thank you for your information! My husband is a Canadian citizen, and we're actually going to be submitting his paperwork for ROC within a couple of months. Our (tentative) plan is to get his citizenship here, and then if the timing is right with jobs and such, move to Canada and get my citizenship. That way, we can live wherever we want, when we want.

[nane1104 146]

Just Bob......

Lol..They already took away my green card.....(that was cruel enough already, especially since I paid so much for and waited so long for the card)

By no means are they taking away any my naturalization certificates and/or passports!

They cannot take what does not belong to them, issued from other countries.....

If I want to give up citizenship to any other country..fine, that is of my own choosing...not up to the US government to decide that! It's like another country taking away US-issued documents...

Lol..Let's just say there will be world war III if that happens!

Besides, the USCIS has better things to do and needs to be more competent in other ways....

Really...

Ant

Doesn't it say they can/will take your US citizenship away if you don't give up any other citizenship within a year of becoming a naturalized US citizen?

Of course they are not taking away your canadian or any other citizenship!

In either event, I have never heard of something like this happening. Kinda funny actually that as a german citizen you have to apply to keep your german citizenship if you become i.e. a US citizen but then the US could take away your US citizenship if you do that.

Why does it have to be so complicated? LOL

But thanks for the informative read about your process!!!

[NickD 202]

We certainly beat this subject to death in that showing your place of birth in the US passport where many of the DOS rules on this subject were either quoted or linked.

The DOS nor does the USA permit dual citizenship, but use the term dual nationality instead, and maintaining a foreign passport for a foreign country is permissible if that country requires it. But that is as far as it goes, but it does put a naturalized citizen in a gray area.

What would really throw a wrench into the gears is if Colombia in our case would demand my wife pay income taxes on her US income to maintain her Colombian passport that she needs to visit her mom. So far, they do not. The only reason why she needs to have the Colombian passport is to visit her mom, no other reason and we are forced to maintain because our DOS puts her place of birth on her US passport. I have no problems in entering Colombia with my US passport, shows I was born in Illinois, USA.

To date, she had to renew her Colombian ID, has not received her ID card yet, can take six months to a year. I very carefully went over the paper work with her, no oath of allegiance was required, but Colombia does consider her to be a citizen of Colombia because she was born there. But she does need that updated Colombian ID before she can apply for a Colombian passport. She took her oath to the USA very seriously and renounced any allegiance to any foreign country, that certainly includes Colombia. So in terms of the USA, she is a citizen of this country, but permitted to hold a foreign passport under their terms as a dual nationality citizen.

One hell of a gray area to be put into, but certainly not our wishes, she just wants to visit her mom. In regards to Colombians visiting us, next to impossible as they need to have a US visa to visit us meeting very strict demands by our country.

At best, all I can say, its a very awkward situation to be put into and an expensive one as well. What pieces of paper here have to be done by notaries there, even like on a birth certificate, and they sure know how to charge. Its like the Colombians do not trust their own issued paperwork.

[warlord 72]

Thank you for your information! My husband is a Canadian citizen, and we're actually going to be submitting his paperwork for ROC within a couple of months. Our (tentative) plan is to get his citizenship here, and then if the timing is right with jobs and such, move to Canada and get my citizenship. That way, we can live wherever we want, when we want.

Yep there is nothing wrong with that at all just as long he has his US citizenship when you decide to move. Many people get both. There's really no downside to doing it other then you could be summoned for jury duty and you still have to declare taxes outside of the US, and maybe if you are in the age range, possible to have military duty (which hasn't happened since Vietnam).

I've had both for a number of years now and have both passports...

[Deb+Steve 13]

Here's a great link to answer Q's re: dual citizenship.

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#recog