The GOP's Waterloo get worse

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You were demonstrating its use?

No, I think debating someone's shortcomings - no pun intended - is considered a personal attack these days.

[dalegg 143]

All I can say is that I am stoked the requirement to buy insurance of pay a fine rule is in there. That is awesome. For that alone I support this bill.

And what the H* is up with this new VJ look that has been put in place since I left? I feel unconfortable in here.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have 2 quotes that might seem relevant.

Teddy Roosevelt - "speak softly and carry a big stick"

Unknown - "you have to be willing to die for something, or you live for nothing"

and I know plenty of people, and I live in New Jersey not Kentucky, that would put action to these words over this monstrous obamanation step into socialism that would put these words into action. Since youre on this website I assume that you followed the process to gain legal status in this country. Dont you know that the same people that brought us Obama-care will bring us amnesty for illegals too? And you think that this p.o.s. bill won't be extended to them at your expense? that has to upset you a little.

Look here, cowboy, I'm not impressed with the "revolutionaries" here that dangle their supposed firepower as an argument. Ain't working with me. It's very unconvincing on top of being less than civilized. To the guards of yesterday I say, go to the caves of Afghanistan. They love yesterday there. It's all they do.

Single payor is coming soon.

One can only hope.

[Nagishkaw 510]

it's a ####### sandwich being sold as caviar.

Indeed, but the more bread you have, the less ####### you'll eat. This country really needs more bread.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

I have 2 quotes that might seem relevant.

Teddy Roosevelt - "speak softly and carry a big stick"

Unknown - "you have to be willing to die for something, or you live for nothing"

and I know plenty of people, and I live in New Jersey not Kentucky, that would put action to these words over this monstrous obamanation step into socialism that would put these words into action. Since youre on this website I assume that you followed the process to gain legal status in this country. Dont you know that the same people that brought us Obama-care will bring us amnesty for illegals too? And you think that this p.o.s. bill won't be extended to them at your expense? that has to upset you a little.

Reagan is a socialist!

Roosevelt is a socialist!

Truman is a socialist!

Johnson is a socialist!

Bush is a socialist!

Clinton is a socialist!

Tis easy this.

Edited March 24, 2010 by JimandChristy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

point to 1, just 1, entitlement program in America that was sucessful at containing costs and did not grow the deficit. What makes you think this program will be any different? It is all a lie, single payor is coming soon.

Administrative costs for both Social Security and Medicare are lower than any private insurance company's and have been tremendously successful as well as popular programs. Health care costs (actual medical treatments) have skyrocketed in this country as is reflected in private insurance premiums that have been going up every year, triggering many businesses to drop coverage for their employees altogether. This isn't going to do anything to raise the actual costs, but without a public option, consumers are left only with private insurance companies to purchase their insurance from. The bill is not perfect, but I'm hopeful that Congress will work towards making amendments to improve it.

Here are the 5 cost containing provisions in the bill as it stands:

1. Bundled Payments - A lot of the focus has been on cost controls that work through the insurance system. But costs aren't rising because insurance is expensive. They're rising because health care is expensive. The experiments with bundled payments are an attempt to begin addressing those drivers directly. Right now, hospitals get paid for each procedure they conduct. If you come in with symptoms of a stroke, they get one check for the diagnostic, one check for the stroke medication, one check for the surgery, etc. And if you have to come back in two weeks, they get more money for that, too. Under bundled payments, the hospital would receive one check for everything related to your stroke over a single period of time. That means they make more money from doing less, rather than more money from doing more. It also gives them an incentive to coordinate care when you're out of the hospital, as it's cheaper to get a nurse to call and make sure you're taking your medicine than it is to have you in for a follow-up procedure.

2. Prudent Purchasing - as I explained earlier

3. The Medicare Commission - One reason there's so much packed into this iteration of health-care reform is because it's so hard to overcome the status quo outside of a massive reform effort. Common-sense delivery system reforms don't attract sufficient interest to muscle pass interest group opposition. The Medicare Commission streamlines the reform process, forcing a panel of independent experts to suggest a package of reforms in years when spending growth is too rapid and forcing Congress to vote on the package -- no amendments, and no filibuster. The Medicare Commission enjoys a catalytic interaction with other elements of the bill, as it offers a process to take small programs and convert them into systemwide reforms. A pilot program that's working well, for instance, might be included in the next year's reform package, making it a policy that makes Medicare work better.

4. Excise tax on high value insurance - This is, essentially, a tax on the unchecked growth in premiums. The key here is that the threshold at which premium dollars begin getting taxed at 40 percent doesn't rise as quickly as premiums costs generally rise. Now imagine two insurers: One holds costs down quite well, and one holds costs down quite poorly. Within a couple of years, the costlier insurer's plan is $3,000 over the threshold, while the cheaper insurer remains under it. The tax amplifies the difference between the two. The costlier insurer is suddenly $4,200 more than the cheaper insurer. In this way, plans with more successful cost-control mechanisms get an even larger market advantage. This makes the insurance market even more competitive in terms of price.

5. Individual mandate - individual mandate lowers average premium costs by bringing healthy people into the system. If the only people buying insurance are the people who expect to need to use it, the average cost will be prohibitively high. But second, the individual mandate is the political spur for future cost controls. In a world without a universal health-care structure and an individual mandate, premium increases are a shame, but not much of a political problem. In a world with an individual mandate, large premium increases are Congress' problem. It focuses the mind on cost control. Given a choice between passively letting people become uninsured and taking on providers and insurers, Congress will choose the path of inaction. But given a choice between voting to take people's insurance away and taking on providers and insurers? That's a harder decision. Right now, the pressure in the political system comes from organized interests. The mandate levels the playing field.

link

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Administrative costs for both Social Security and Medicare are lower than any private insurance company's and have been tremendously successful as well as popular programs. Health care costs (actual medical treatments) have skyrocketed in this country as is reflected in private insurance premiums that have been going up every year, triggering many businesses to drop coverage for their employees altogether. This isn't going to do anything to raise the actual costs, but without a public option, consumers are left only with private insurance companies to purchase their insurance from. The bill is not perfect, but I'm hopeful that Congress will work towards making amendments to improve it.

You really crack me up, Steve. You keep acting like facts mattered.

[Dan T 8]

Oh, Thank God. Another "Obama the Socialist" noob. Grand.

I refer you to my question for Bill Maher. From what I can tell you too are a socialist as well so why wouldnt you be proud to stand side by side with our Maoist in Chief holding a copy of Marx between you?

How is this bill not a step towards socialism? From each acording to their abilities, to each acording to their needs. Isn't that the quote? you'd know better than me. This bill REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS of it. Next theyll pass a bill telling me I have to live in a 2 bedroom condo and give the proceedes from my house to help people that never bothered to work hard enough or smart enough to afford one, and limit the size of my tv to 23 inches and make me pay 50k for a 15k car because it hurts peoples self-esteem that I drive something that seats 7 when they cant afford it. The objective of the Obama/Pelosi/Reid weather underground governemet is to dictate our entire lives to us from cradle to grave.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

All I can say is that I am stoked the requirement to buy insurance of pay a fine rule is in there. That is awesome. For that alone I support this bill.

And what the H* is up with this new VJ look that has been put in place since I left? I feel unconfortable in here.

Hey Dale! The Captain had to abandon the old software because it had no more support and was vulnerable to hackers. It's taking some getting used to, but it's growing on me.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

From what I can tell you too are a socialist as well so why wouldnt you be proud to stand side by side with our Maoist in Chief holding a copy of Marx between you?

From what I can tell, you don't even know what socialism is.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You really crack me up, Steve. You keep acting like facts mattered.

[Dan T 8]

Administrative costs for both Social Security and Medicare are lower than any private insurance company's and have been tremendously successful as well as popular programs. Health care costs (actual medical treatments) have skyrocketed in this country as is reflected in private insurance premiums that have been going up every year, triggering many businesses to drop coverage for their employees altogether. This isn't going to do anything to raise the actual costs, but without a public option, consumers are left only with private insurance companies to purchase their insurance from. The bill is not perfect, but I'm hopeful that Congress will work towards making amendments to improve it.

Here are the 5 cost containing provisions in the bill as it stands:

link

If this is such an awesome solution to our system of healthcare how do you reconcile that the people who wrote it are exempt from participating in it? Congress, especially one as liberal as this, is only interested in 1 thing, and I assure you it is not controlling costs. If that were the case any responsible discussion about healthcare would focus more on tort reform than on putting private insurers out of business. This bill incentivises employers to drop the coverage that they currently offer which means its only a short road to public option and later single payor. Do insurers all AIG deserve a bit of a smackdown? Sure, I think we can all agree that abusers of that magnitude need an attitude adjustment, however, involving the government in my healthcare decisions is less appealing than dying slowly in a low temperature fire. You like to remind us that illegal aliens will not benifit from this bill, however, the people that gave us this smoking pile of socialism will soon be ramming amnesty down our throats so your reassurance is not worth much. I would think that people on this website in particular would be especially sensative to that, however, most people come from countries that have been in the business of punishing acheivement with taxation for a long time. Our government is out of control and instead of fearing them, as I suspect most non-comatose people are, it is time to make them fear us, v sub v election day 2010 and 2012. Oh and on a closing note Social Security and Medicare are both massive ponzi schemes that would make Madof blush. They were never sustainable and will collapse, I pray sooner rather than later, under the weight of their own unsustainability. And why exactly should all people regardless of their willingness to work be entitled to the same level of health care?

From what I can tell, you don't even know what socialism is.

as you are a huge proponent of it on this site perhaps you could be the one to educate us all, stand up and be counted you marxist.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

as you are a huge proponent of it on this site perhaps you could be the one to educate us all, stand up and be counted you marxist.

Do you get points for ignorance or do you put in on display for free?

[Dan T 8]

Do you get points for ignorance or do you put in on display for free?

Curious how you avoid all people who call you out in this way. Perhaps you are aware on a sub-conscience level that this is the greatest country god, or gods, have ever given man because of the capitalist system and know that arguments for socialism have never held up when confronted head on. I do put on display for all to see that I am a proud American capitalist, I challange you to do the same for the ideals you hold so dear. You argue for them all over this site, but you shy away from being called what you are?

[Ban Hammer 12,874]

Indeed, but the more bread you have, the less ####### you'll eat. This country really needs more bread.

it's being printed as fast as it can, per obama's orders!