OT Rules of pissy behaviour...

[Ban Hammer 14,635]

Yes, Charles. We PM'd you, but only found a big lock on the thread!

good reminder to go check out the pi regional.

[Brad and Vika 129]

This whole silly notion that the TOS applies "more loosely" in OT than the rest of the site is the heart of the problem.

Either OT needs to be held to the TOS, or a TOS needs to be written for OT. It's unfair to members and moderators to leave it in such a state of uncertainty.

Is this offensive? Just trying to set some parameters.

[Brad and Vika 129]

You know what would be a GREAT quality in a moderator? Somebody who can take criticism in any other way than being a complete jackass.

[Sinergy 3]

I think some of the mods do close threads or delete posts just bc they dont like what they see, it really didnt break a TOS. And yes, its super annoying when a thread is closed or a post is deleted bc someone didnt agree with the mod.

I mean, ive never seen in the TOS where its against TOS to disagree with a mod. just my 2 cents

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

I think some of the mods do close threads or delete posts just bc they dont like what they see, it really didnt break a TOS. And yes, its super annoying when a thread is closed or a post is deleted bc someone didnt agree with the mod.

I mean, ive never seen in the TOS where its against TOS to disagree with a mod. just my 2 cents

I will support the idea that myself or a mod should not close a topic just because it upsets us. The TOS has to stand on its feet or it should be revised. My rule is that a mod should pass an issue to another mod or myself if they feel personally involved (i.e. conflict of interest). I am sure that it has happened in the past that a mod should have done this and did not, but my hope is that in general we as a team can work together to be as fair as possible.

[TBoneTX 48,342]

I asked this question in a ticket, but never received a reply.

Uh-oh, si man... (?)

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just want to append that IMHO, if there is a considerable or ongoing disagreement between a moderator and a member - I think it should be OK for a different mod (or Ewok) to respond - be it PM, post, or whatever. So long as there is a response in the same format as the question or member post. I've experience a similar problem to that described above - where the mod didn't like what I had to say, and posted the chastisment - but wanted my responses in PM only. Further posts were ignored.

[Kailey 3]

Honest opinion (read- 'dangerous opinion') I have never seen a forum where a free opinion would be so much unwelcome as here. Here there is only 2 options: you either say 'you are such a great guy and i wish you good luck' (even if the opposite is obvious) or you get banned.

In general i dont care anymore. But there is something that I want to ask:

if somebody comes here and says 'i'm a known abuser and i wonder how to process k1 faster, help me' - people will help him with a smile and friendly advice on how to fill in I129?? and if somebody comes and say 'you guy, should never try to process any k1 ever!" that person will be banned for life?

+ As a woman I find it completely shameful to see men who run and cry for mods help, btw..

"Mary, today i won in an discussion with that rude woman who told me what she thinks about me!" - "oh, John, great, how did you do it?" - (proudly) "I called a mod and he banned her. So from now on i will only hear how great i am!!" Curtain. Superman theme is playing.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Kailey

[Brad and Vika 129]

Honest opinion (read- 'dangerous opinion') I have never seen a forum where a free opinion would be so much unwelcome as here. Here there is only 2 options: you either say 'you are such a great guy and i wish you good luck' (even if the opposite is obvious) or you get banned.

In general i dont care anymore. But there is something that I want to ask:

if somebody comes here and says 'i'm a known abuser and i wonder how to process k1 faster, help me' - people will help him with a smile and friendly advice on how to fill in I129?? and if somebody comes and say 'you guy, should never try to process any k1 ever!" that person will be banned for life?

+ As a woman I find it completely shameful to see men who run and cry for mods help, btw..

"Mary, today i won in an discussion with that rude woman who told me what she thinks about me!" - "oh, John, great, how did you do it?" - (proudly) "I called a mod and he banned her. So from now on i will only hear how great i am!!" Curtain. Superman theme is playing.

Good comments. In the situation I was describing above, it was a female (apparently), posting in two separate places that she 1) needed advice on how to remove conditions without her new USC spouse because (in my somewhat fuzzy recollection) she either didn't want to be married any more, or just plain never did - and 2) help with bringing her mother to America before she had her residence situation affirmend. I called her on that, and some of the cold, nasty comments. She immediately ran to a moderator and had my comments removed, and when I reposted, her own nasty remarks deleted, then the thread locked. It was pretty clear that if I kept on calling a spade a spade, or kept insisting that the mod respond to my responses to her public chastisment in the same form, I was headed for the ban.

Edited to say that in fairness, I find most mods to be easy to deal with and reasonable. If you post tactfully, without personal attacks or provocation, you can get by with comments and valid opinion. Sometimes the posts are so far out there that a personal comment is called for, and it does creat a TOS problem.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

Also, are moderators required to accept PM's from the membership? I asked this question in a ticket, but never received a reply.

If they are not able to address an issue then the issue should be forwarded to another mod or myself.

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

Just want to append that IMHO, if there is a considerable or ongoing disagreement between a moderator and a member - I think it should be OK for a different mod (or Ewok) to respond - be it PM, post, or whatever. So long as there is a response in the same format as the question or member post. I've experience a similar problem to that described above - where the mod didn't like what I had to say, and posted the chastisment - but wanted my responses in PM only. Further posts were ignored.

Do not be afraid to message me directly if you feel like your concerns have gone unheard. I am not in the same timezone as many people so there are times where a reply may take longer to get back, or even weeks like the last two where I am on business travel and it makes it even tougher. But I can be honest and say that all inquiries are logged and I will get back to them. I do not want your concerns to fall between the cracks. The contact us form does work but I admit there may be times where it will take me a day or two to get back to certain issues that are not critical (some immediate need) if I am on a plane traveling.

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

FYI here is what I see when I track tickets from the contact us form. Right now there are no open tickets however there are a lot on Hold. Many of the tickets on hold are "site ideas" on things to improve. I keep them on hold and flag them so that when I do an update I will keep those ideas in mind. I will then close as resolved the ticket so the member knows that their idea was added to a new feature (I email them a short update too).

For context, I get about 10-15 new tickets every day. Out of the last month or so the ticket system has been active we have 11 on hold at this time.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Thanks Ewok, for the information. I appreciate the open door.

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

Huh?

The question was: Should all moderators be accepting PM's from the membership? Yes or no? I ask because at least one of your moderators PM'd me, but is refusing my reply to their PM. I hardly think that's fair. I wrote this in a ticket, which you closed without addressing. You also closed a ticket today, several days after I submitted it, without addressing it.

You asked me to give the ticketing system a chance. I did. I think I'm done with your ticket system. You close my tickets without responding to them, and when you do respond to them, you don't address the actual issue.

And hey, whatever, this is your site, you're free to run it as you see fit. But please stop saying one thing and doing another.

Several of your tickets were simply, "here is another example of one of your mods (name omitted) doing a bad job.... he is a bad mod". I took a look and in at least one case pinged that mod and gave him some pointers on how to better handle a situation. I may not reply to you and tell you what I talked to the mod about -- it is not your specific business. I did and have listened to your feedback, but I would say 90% of your messages to me are complaining about the same SINGLE person / mod. Seriously, I am going to go count them and will post again in a minute.

To your other point, I am NOT requiring a mod to reply back if they feel unable to to handle a situation. You may escalate it to myself or they as a mod should push it to another mod or my if they feel unable to handle a situation.

[Captain Ewok 1,932]

Mox you used the system 4 out of 5 times to complain about the same specific member / mod.

Just to add, just because you have a complaint does not mean I will always agree. I respect that you think that one of the mods here is the worst decision ever made, ever, forever ever. That said there have been many cases where I personally think that their job and role has helped the site a lot. Do I expect any mod to be perfect -- heck no. Am I -- no way. I certainly do think though that on the whole the entire team does a great. You always measure their performance on their perceived failures. You do not count or see their successes -- which are many.