Losing friends because of marriage choice

[HoneyandSonny 0]

Hey guys, its been awhile since I posted on VJ...things are going okie, still going through the normal stuggles of being married to someone overseas. Anyway, I wanted to ask has anyone lost friends because of their marriage choice? Particularly, Marrying someone from the middle east....A really good friend of mine recently received a postion with Homeland Security and they informed me that they most cut all ties with me because of my husbands nationality. It disappoints me because she was a long time friend and having to cut ties with someone because of this doesn't seem right or fair. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[nurse1967 287]

I have to hear about my husband being Middle Eastern constantly. At some point you just learn that you are trying to make yourself happy not them. If they drop you as a friend because of your husband's nationality then they aren't your friend anyway.

[illnevergetthis 5]

I am sooo sorry your friend is cutting ties with you. I have a hard time believing that it is a "job requirement." It is terrible that she is using this as an excuse. If she doesn't want to be your friend because of your husbands nationality, then shame on her and she should just say so.

She may eventually come around, but then it will be up to you to decide if you still want to associate with her. I have a few friends that made nasty comments after I married my husband. I stopped calling and visiting them. If someone doesn't accept my husband for who he is; then I will not accept them.

Again, I am soooo sorry that your friend is doing this.

I have to hear about my husband being Middle Eastern constantly. At some point you just learn that you are trying to make yourself happy not them. If they drop you as a friend because of your husband's nationality then they aren't your friend anyway.

[Darnell 8,478]

It disappoints me because she was a long time friend and having to cut ties with someone because of this doesn't seem right or fair. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It's DHS policy, sorry.

You could look it up, if you'd like.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hey guys, its been awhile since I posted on VJ...things are going okie, still going through the normal stuggles of being married to someone overseas. Anyway, I wanted to ask has anyone lost friends because of their marriage choice? Particularly, Marrying someone from the middle east....A really good friend of mine recently received a postion with Homeland Security and they informed me that they most cut all ties with me because of my husbands nationality. It disappoints me because she was a long time friend and having to cut ties with someone because of this doesn't seem right or fair. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I had a situation similar to yours. My bff, a woman who could finish my sentences, we were so close, took a position with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) in 2005. She passed every security clearance coz she was soooo squeaky clean. The only "smudge" was her friendship with me because I was importing my new husband from a "suspect" country. One day, after being on the job for a few months, she appeared at my door with everything I had ever loaned her, and explained that she didn't need them anymore. It didn't occur to me at the time that there was anything more to this because she had put her home up for sale before starting this job. But, soon, she disappeared from her home, and refused my calls at work. The irony is that I helped her get the job through personal contacts and that I have long term security clearances myself, as do some of my naturalized relatives, so this may have been an over-reaction by someone instructing her how to advance in the federal ranks in this new reality.

After all these years, I still mourn her as if she died. It still hurts a lot, but it is what it is and I wish her nothing but the best in life. My husband more than makes up for the loss.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Hey guys, its been awhile since I posted on VJ...things are going okie, still going through the normal stuggles of being married to someone overseas. Anyway, I wanted to ask has anyone lost friends because of their marriage choice? Particularly, Marrying someone from the middle east....A really good friend of mine recently received a postion with Homeland Security and they informed me that they most cut all ties with me because of my husbands nationality. It disappoints me because she was a long time friend and having to cut ties with someone because of this doesn't seem right or fair. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Wow... that sounds extreme ?

Yes, i definitely learned who my real friends were through this experience. It was heartbreaking at the time. i've also had issues with family members, and again it is really disappointing. i try to forgive and forget and just move on, but sometimes people say/do things that really change the way you see them. It's hard to get over that.

Hang in there ! And best of luck to you !

Edited December 27, 2009 by AlHayatZween

[HoneyandSonny 0]

She mentioned something about security clearance as being the reason. Regardless, whatever the reason is its difficult accepting the loss of a good friend.

[Darnell 8,478]

She might have handled it differently, sure - been more 'up front' about the requirements for her clearance from the FBI for her DHS posting.

But that's not the point.

It's a DHS requirement, should she actually want to MAINTAIN her clearance, to cut all ties with you, because of your husband's nationality.

Sorry.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Darnell

[illnevergetthis 5]

She might have handled it differently, sure - been more 'up front' about the requirements for her clearance from the FBI for her DHS posting.

But that's not the point.

It's a DHS requirement, should she actually want to MAINTAIN her clearance, to cut all ties with you, because of your husband's nationality.

Sorry.

Can you show me where it says this?

[Aymsgirl 0]

I have had friends to definately share their opinions and I do see a lot of ignorance in them. I have had them all come together and gang up on me to just bring me back to my senses prior to marriage. Now, they know my husband and see he is a good man and father and that they are wrong. If they are good friends, they will adjust and come to the reality that this person is what makes you happy.

As far as your friend with the security issue. I have nothing much to add to this but are their lists of countries that you are to not know anybody or have any relationship with? Is that list posted somewhere? I can see where it could be a security issue but I guess I never thought of her situation. Anyhow, I'm sorry that you had to lose a friend over something like this.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Yes, that is interesting... i never knew that about working for DHS or any other agency requiring security clearance... seems counterintuitive in a way... wouldn't they want people w/ diverse backgrounds & experiences working for them? Like if you were Lebanese American, spoke fluent Arabic, and had family back in the motherland... seems you'd be an asset ? Shoot, even i thought about applying for a job with them before... will have to scratch it off the list...

But yes, in any event, it sucks to lose someone you once considered a friend...

[KarimaG 2]

This is not policy....

II. Engagement with American Arab, Muslim, Sikh, Middle Eastern, and South Asian Communities

Building and strengthening strategic partnerships with key communities, including Arab and Muslim Americans, is one of our chief priorities. Pursuant to our statutory authority, we believe that it is a wise investment to spend our time communicating with the public, providing information, and hearing and responding to concerns. We are convinced that our first function – helping to shape policy in ways that are mindful of the U.S. Constitution and Federal civil rights laws – is much more effective when we listen to the reactions and concerns of the American people. Good policy and good communications with the public are inherently connected with one another.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/crcl-fy07annualreport.pdf

I come from a family with a law enforcement background who have worked in the past for state, and government agencies. My bother-in-law, my step father, and my father... and my ex husband. Throughout the past year of my life we have had various freinds who also work for the government including department of homeland security. It is no policy to break all ties with a 'friend' who just happens to be married to someone of that nationality. Now where seperation comes into play is when a person, any person, has a criminal background, it is against policy to associate or be in verbal contact with that individual. If the person maintains that friendship, he/she can be dismissed from there job. If there is another reason for the contact, brother, sister, brother-in-law and circumstances warrent contact, or if contacted is required for any other reason, the employee may petition for contact to be granted/allowed.

But to just say "i can't be your friend anymore' bc you married this man from another nationality is complete bs and juvenile.

I have lost family myself because of my choice in who I want to be with. I have not spoken to my real father in almost 2 years.. my parents 'barely' speak to me... and I have lost long time friends... but I have not lost anything. Friends come and go... and its rare in life to find that 1 good friend who will stand by your side through thick and thin. Sort of reminds me of the parties we used to have at our home many years ago, before we figured it out. Friends wo uld come over, eat your food, drink your beer,... but we realised that these ppl werent even our friends. Once we stopped having these parties... did they ever call? No. Dont waste your time each day on someone who is not worth your efforts. There 'are' people out there who are worthy of your friendship... but the sad truth is not many people are.

Reminds me of something I tell my daughter... no one on this earth has the power to hurt you unless you let them. Just remember that your most important and dont worry about what everyone else thinks.

[yogib37 3]

It's DHS policy, sorry.

You could look it up, if you'd like.

give the link so we can see.. I do not think that is right

[christeen 966]

Unfortunatly, there are MANY jobs within the govt and critical contractors that fall under the isue called "foreign Influence" with their security clearances... My brother works for Lockheed and had to report everything to do with my husband, an Italian national... Because Italy is not necessarily considered a suspect nation, there were no problems, however, MENA countries could pose problems with friends and family.... So sorry for your loss, it is difficult....

Here is info on the provision....

The “Foreign Influence” criterion under the “Adjudicative Guidelines for Determining Eligibility for Access to Classified Information” affects many security clearance applicants, particularly those who are naturalized U.S. citizens or whose parents immigrated to the U.S. Others who marry (or reside with) a foreign national, who have foreign financial/business interests, or who maintain close and continuing contact with foreigners are also affected. There are two other related criteria—Foreign Preference and Outside Activities—that sometimes affect these same applicants.*

SECURITY CONCERN

Foreign Influence has been a significant concern when considering people for security clearances. This has been due in part to changes in motivation of those who have chosen to spy against the U.S. A government study issued in March 2008 reported that since 1990 offenders who are naturalized citizens rose to 35%, those with relatives or close friends overseas increased to 58%, and those with foreign business or professional connections increased to 50%.

The Adjudicative Guidelines specify that “foreign contacts and interests may be a security concern if the individual has divided loyalties or foreign financial interests; may be manipulated or induced to help a foreign person, group, organization, or government in a way that is not in U.S. interests; or is vulnerable to pressure or coercion by any foreign interest.” The Adjudicative Guidelines further specify that “Adjudication . . . should consider the identity of the foreign country in which the foreign contact or financial interest is located, including but not limited to, such considerations as whether the foreign country is known to target United States citizens to obtain protected information and/or is associated with a risk of terrorism.” However the location of a person’s contacts or interest is not by itself a disqualifying condition.

EVALUATING FOREIGN INFLUENCE

The location, relationship, occupation, activities, and interests of the foreign person, as well as the recency, frequency and nature of the contact are all relevant. The security significance of these foreign contacts can be measure by the extent to which an applicant:

• Maintains contact with foreign friends, family members, or professional associates.

• Provides or receives material support to/from contacts outside the U.S.

• Returns to native country.

• Maintains property or financial interests (including inheritance rights) outside the U.S.

• Fails to report association with foreigners when required.

Foreign connections that “create a potential conflict of interest between the individual’s obligation to protect sensitive information and the individual’s desire to help a foreign person, group, government, or country by providing that information” are security concerns. Absent a potential for a conflict of interest, foreign connections must present a “heightened” risk of foreign influence to be a security concern. A heightened risk can be created either by the nature of the foreign contact and/or by the applicant’s perceived ability to resist foreign influence. In assessing an applicant’s ability to resist foreign influence adjudicators may consider the degree to which an applicant has assimilated American culture and displayed undivided loyalty to the United States by:

• Applying for U.S. citizenship as soon as they are eligible.

• Expressing their intention to live permanently in the U.S. even after retirement.

• Observing American holidays.

• Participating in local non-ethnic social, community, political, or charitable groups.

• Socializing with people outside their ethnic group.

Additionally, circumstances or behavior that could attract the attention of foreign intelligence are also potentially disqualifying factors.

[KarimaG 2]

Here is some more information here also...

http://www.rjhresearch.com/ADR/foreigninfl...fluencetext.htm

After reading some of this... I do believe this is in regarding to a person with divided loyalties... one who is faithful to there country 'before' being a good and faithful citizen of the united states. Especially being so if the individual hold political ties and strong political views. That would be a 'person of interest'.

If one wants to immigrate to the united states, obtain permanent residency, holds no political ties, then seperation is not warranted in my opinion. However... my opinion doesnt matter, I dont make the rules in this game and unfortunately the government does. I still dont think under 'your circumstances', if your fiance/husband is not a person of specific interest that they would cut ties, or rather, be made to cut ties.

Edited December 28, 2009 by KarimaG