Slapped with a 221g

[Cluster F 0]

my fiancee had her interview today at the embassy in lima, peru. she was neither approved nor denied. she was given a yellow form that said no visa could be given at the present time but something like the case would be finalized upon submission of a co-sponsor and a migratory certificate from both of us.

it's ruined my day really as i was fully hoping to have her here next week but warning to others who may be along with this process: if you're iffy on the i-134 earnings guidelines they'll ask for a co-sponsor if it's so much as NEAR the 125% threshold which for a family of four (remember, you have to include your fiancee as "family) is currently 27k a year. the thing is that in my case i have two kids who don't live with me and are only partly financially dependent but the embassy will still consider them as full household members. so now i will have to go through the very embarrassing move of having my parents co-sign for me.

now that was bad enough news on its own about needing a sponsor but the cherry on top of the cake is their asking for something called "movimientos migratorios" (in english, i think, this is the migratory movement certificate). now my fiancee knows where to get this cert (there is an agency called digimen which is set up for just this and they have a web page) but they're also asking the same document from me which makes no sense since i'm a u.s. citizen. also i haven't been to peru since this summer so i couldn't go with her to the interview, fortunately it's pretty easy to follow the directions even when they don't know a word of english.

can anyone help clarify what it is i need to do?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. Do you expect them to waive the rules for you because you are special and give you a visa anyway? Most stress in life is caused by unrealistic expectations. You unrealistically expected her to get a visa when you didn't prepare and didn't follow the rules and instructions. Big surprise.

We are aware about being "iffy" I cannot count the times I have said that if you are borderline on the financial requirements to get a co-sponsor. This is a subjective decision by the consulates, it varies by consulate, by counsulate officer and by case details. Unless you are comfortable above the guides, get a co-sponsor. YOU and only YOU can make that decision, YOU decided not to. So, thank you for your example. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow.

The other document is specific to the consulate you are using, you did not study the needs for that consulate. What do you need to do? Get a co-sponsor. Go to the regional forums and study about this other document (do a search of the forum which will give you answers for the last several years on this topic) If that doesn't get you your answer, email or call the visa section directly and ask them.

my fiancee had her interview today at the embassy in lima, peru. she was neither approved nor denied. she was given a yellow form that said no visa could be given at the present time but something like the case would be finalized upon submission of a co-sponsor and a migratory certificate from both of us.

it's ruined my day really as i was fully hoping to have her here next week but warning to others who may be along with this process: if you're iffy on the i-134 earnings guidelines they'll ask for a co-sponsor if it's so much as NEAR the 125% threshold which for a family of four (remember, you have to include your fiancee as "family) is currently 27k a year. the thing is that in my case i have two kids who don't live with me and are only partly financially dependent but the embassy will still consider them as full household members. so now i will have to go through the very embarrassing move of having my parents co-sign for me.

now that was bad enough news on its own about needing a sponsor but the cherry on top of the cake is their asking for something called "movimientos migratorios" (in english, i think, this is the migratory movement certificate). now my fiancee knows where to get this cert (there is an agency called digimen which is set up for just this and they have a web page) but they're also asking the same document from me which makes no sense since i'm a u.s. citizen. also i haven't been to peru since this summer so i couldn't go with her to the interview, fortunately it's pretty easy to follow the directions even when they don't know a word of english.

can anyone help clarify what it is i need to do?

[endoftheroad 1]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

That is cold hearted "Gary and Alla".

The I-134 is a written document and as USCIS officials have said, it is written in stone.

It IS pass/fail.

If USA consulate people use it subjectively then it is THEIR problem and we need to have OUR government to intervene to set them straight.

Sorry "Gary and Alla" but you fail again in advice. YOU reap what YOU sow.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

That is cold hearted "Gary and Alla".

The I-134 is a written document and as USCIS officials have said, it is written in stone.

It IS pass/fail.

If USA consulate people use it subjectively then it is THEIR problem and we need to have OUR government to intervene to set them straight.

Sorry "Gary and Alla" but you fail again in advice. YOU reap what YOU sow.

Can you tell me where (link) USCIS said the state department must follow their rules. I can link you to where they say otherwise. See the pinned topic at the top of the page.

The consulates ARE our government. How do you separate OUR government from OUR government? The I-134 is not even used by the USCIS, it is used by the state department. BOTH our government, BOTH in the Department of Homeland Security. The I-134 is not even required by the consulates, it is a pre-printed form. You can do you own affidavit if you like. In fact the consulates can grant a visa without any financial documents if they want. The one in Peru does not.

It is not cold hearted, it is true. Some people have a problem with being responsible for their actions (or inactions) though failing to accept it will not help them. He will comply with the consulate or he won't get a visa. Or he can start a crusade against the State Department. Good luck with that. I do not deal in fantasy. If it was, "pass/fail" as you say the OP would not be looking for a co-sponsor. He can take your pretend advice and re-submit his I-134 without a co-sponsor (and add a letter telling the consulate they MUST accept it as it is pass/fail according to USCIS) , or take my advice and get a co-sponsor. Which do you think will work?

We don't know, the oriinal question stayed here for 24 hours without an answer from you and then you respond to me...not the OP. It does no good for him that you come and say I give bad advice when you give none. So I have given advice, you have not. You say I am wrong...but do not offer anything "right" Good luck to the OP

[Susita 175]

Cluster F ~ My husband and I went through the Lima embassy. We were not asked for "movimientos migratorios" ... my husband also says that you won't be able to obtain one of these unless you resided in Peru and had a DNI (documento nacional de identidad). I would give the Lima embassy a call & clarify this request. For your fiancee, this document is easy to obtain.

As far as the co-sponsor, get her the paperwork as soon as possible, once she has all the documentation, all she has to do is DHL it to the embassy and within a few days she will receive her visa via DHL. (pending everything is sufficient).

[011] (51-1) 618-2000 is the number to US Citizen services at the embassy. I have always found going this way to be more successful than waiting on the phone for the visa line. Sometimes they hang up on you or keep you on hold for an hour.

Good luck! Don't worry & ignore the negative comments. Everyone is human and we all make mistakes and/or overlook things, and you'll just get through it and everything will work out!

Buena suerte!

Hope I could help

[Susita 175]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

I understand that this may be subjective in many, if not all, consulates. Not everyone knows the immigration process in and out, and I don't feel that directing a post to the OP that basically scolds him like a child will make any difference in what has already occurred. It certainly isn't necessary to get your point across. For us that have been through the process, we are well aware of how the consulates operate. I just think in general we should all have mutual respect for each other and be as sensitive as possible to others going through the same painful experience we ourselves had once gone through. Being separated from Luis was the hardest thing I've ever done, so I understand.

I probably would have cried if I had gotten a reply like this for one of my questions. Thank god everyone I encountered during my K-1 and AOS process were super-supportive.

[pushbrk 12,115]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

I understand that this may be subjective in many, if not all, consulates. Not everyone knows the immigration process in and out, and I don't feel that directing a post to the OP that basically scolds him like a child will make any difference in what has already occurred. It certainly isn't necessary to get your point across. For us that have been through the process, we are well aware of how the consulates operate. I just think in general we should all have mutual respect for each other and be as sensitive as possible to others going through the same painful experience we ourselves had once gone through. Being separated from Luis was the hardest thing I've ever done, so I understand.

I probably would have cried if I had gotten a reply like this for one of my questions. Thank god everyone I encountered during my K-1 and AOS process were super-supportive.

I think when a person has gone down the path of unrealistic expectation and poor preparation this far, it helps to both get their attention, clearly reset their expectations and focus the responsibility for the expectations and preparation squarly on the responsible party. That is exactly the point of the answer given. This is a do it yourself forum. Emphasis is "yourself".

To the OP, an individual cosponsor who qualifies is needed. That could be either parent, not both. They'll state only their own personal income, not their joint income. The supporting documentation would be pay stubs and tax returns including W2 and 1099 forms so it's clear which income is for the individual sponsor.

[Allie and Nigel 2]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

I understand that this may be subjective in many, if not all, consulates. Not everyone knows the immigration process in and out, and I don't feel that directing a post to the OP that basically scolds him like a child will make any difference in what has already occurred. It certainly isn't necessary to get your point across. For us that have been through the process, we are well aware of how the consulates operate. I just think in general we should all have mutual respect for each other and be as sensitive as possible to others going through the same painful experience we ourselves had once gone through. Being separated from Luis was the hardest thing I've ever done, so I understand.

I probably would have cried if I had gotten a reply like this for one of my questions. Thank god everyone I encountered during my K-1 and AOS process were super-supportive.

I think when a person has gone down the path of unrealistic expectation and poor preparation this far, it helps to both get their attention, clearly reset their expectations and focus the responsibility for the expectations and preparation squarly on the responsible party. That is exactly the point of the answer given. This is a do it yourself forum. Emphasis is "yourself".

To the OP, an individual cosponsor who qualifies is needed. That could be either parent, not both. They'll state only their own personal income, not their joint income. The supporting documentation would be pay stubs and tax returns including W2 and 1099 forms so it's clear which income is for the individual sponsor.

We got a 221 g for not having a proper court record/police clearance...we know ALL about not being equipted for the interview...they just stick you on hold essentially, till you send it in, and then if your ok, then you get your visa is how I believe its done...

[Susita 175]

I stick to my opinion. Being direct is fine, but I feel it's not necessary to belittle someone in order to get your point across. Everyone can make a mistake. If we want to help him, then it's our job to put him on the right path to fixing it.

[pushbrk 12,115]

You were not "slapped" with a 221g. You received a 221g because you were not prepared for the interview. The financial support requirement is NOT a pass/fail test, there is NO finish line where you win. It is a subjective decision made by ONE person who does not know you or your fiancee and has about 30 seconds to review what you give him. so for others...go to an interview with borderline financials an this is what you can expect. You reap what you sow

I understand that this may be subjective in many, if not all, consulates. Not everyone knows the immigration process in and out, and I don't feel that directing a post to the OP that basically scolds him like a child will make any difference in what has already occurred. It certainly isn't necessary to get your point across. For us that have been through the process, we are well aware of how the consulates operate. I just think in general we should all have mutual respect for each other and be as sensitive as possible to others going through the same painful experience we ourselves had once gone through. Being separated from Luis was the hardest thing I've ever done, so I understand.

I probably would have cried if I had gotten a reply like this for one of my questions. Thank god everyone I encountered during my K-1 and AOS process were super-supportive.

I think when a person has gone down the path of unrealistic expectation and poor preparation this far, it helps to both get their attention, clearly reset their expectations and focus the responsibility for the expectations and preparation squarly on the responsible party. That is exactly the point of the answer given. This is a do it yourself forum. Emphasis is "yourself".

To the OP, an individual cosponsor who qualifies is needed. That could be either parent, not both. They'll state only their own personal income, not their joint income. The supporting documentation would be pay stubs and tax returns including W2 and 1099 forms so it's clear which income is for the individual sponsor.

We got a 221 g for not having a proper court record/police clearance...we know ALL about not being equipted for the interview...they just stick you on hold essentially, till you send it in, and then if your ok, then you get your visa is how I believe its done...

That's how it's done when all else is good and they just need a missing document. I expect that's probably the case here too but the outcome is not always positive.

[pushbrk 12,115]

I just think in general we should all have mutual respect for each other and be as sensitive as possible to others going through the same painful experience we ourselves had once gone through. Being separated from Luis was the hardest thing I've ever done, so I understand.

I probably would have cried if I had gotten a reply like this for one of my questions. Thank god everyone I encountered during my K-1 and AOS process were super-supportive.

In my experience "you should" and "we all should" properly translate to "I wish" and/or "I want". Sometimes the help we need is a kick in the pants. You probably would have cried if your loved one got a 221g and cried some more about it being your own fault, once you realized it was because you failed to learn the process and properly prepare. THEN, you would have focused on doing what was necessary to solve the problem. If you came here saying, "I screwed up...", you would probably get a less redirecting response than if you came here blaming the big bad Consular officer for not making an exception for you.

[Susita 175]

In my experience "you should" and "we all should" properly translate to "I wish" and/or "I want". Sometimes the help we need is a kick in the pants. You probably would have cried if your loved one got a 221g and cried some more about it being your own fault, once you realized it was because you failed to learn the process and properly prepare. THEN, you would have focused on doing what was necessary to solve the problem. If you came here saying, "I screwed up...", you would probably get a less redirecting response than if you came here blaming the big bad Consular officer for not making an exception for you.

We did get a 221g... we got the document to the embassy the next day. He got his visa. I didn't cry, and it wasn't because I didn't learn the process and properly prepare. It was something we had no control over, and wasn't listed on the paperwork as a requirement.

Sometimes they throw you curve balls, like the "movimientos migratorios".... this isn't listed on any of the instruction paperwork for the visa or on visa journey, so how would the OP know about this?

As for the financial documentation, the OP had an honest mistake. His children are not part of his household. Maybe he could have prepared better for this and had a co-sponsor ready. But big whoop, he made a mistake. Again, he shouldn't be chastised for it.

And yes, in this case I would have blamed the Consular Officer too. Nowhere does it say you need a document of "movimientos migratorios" anywhere. And none of the Peru filers that I have helped or spoken to along the way needed this document.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I am adding my warning here - Gary and Alla - your response was not balanced - it was harsh, aggressive and attacking the OP. There was nothing in the OPs post that deserved this tone of response. If you wish to offer information you don't need to be 'flowery' but it is good to remember that VJ is here to 'support' people. You chose to be deliberately harsh in your response and not only is that unnecessary, it is unhelpful. Please take some time to think of how you can be helpful on VJ instead of critical when you respond to posts. People will stop hearing the value of what you have to say if all they can 'hear' is how you are saying it.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Neonred 3,446]

I am adding my warning here - Gary and Alla - your response was not balanced - it was harsh, aggressive and attacking the OP. There was nothing in the OPs post that deserved this tone of response. If you wish to offer information you don't need to be 'flowery' but it is good to remember that VJ is here to 'support' people. You chose to be deliberately harsh in your response and not only is that unnecessary, it is unhelpful. Please take some time to think of how you can be helpful on VJ instead of critical when you respond to posts. People will stop hearing the value of what you have to say if all they can 'hear' is how you are saying it.

Is this another one of those Mod warnings that, if you don't say it the way I like I will take action against you?

[Twisted K 2]

good luck Cluster. You just have to provide what they asked for. if nothing else is wrong/missing/incomplete, then she will get the visa. i am a witness that they do not ask for everything that is required before the interview. you have to be a mind reader ahead of time. the consulates do take into their own hands and vary country by country what is required. heck, in india, the requirements are different from consulate to consulate.

the good part, she wasn't denied on the spot, and they gave you time to fix what needs to be fixed.