Frontloading

[Leo&Farah 0]

Hey guys,

Posting again. We're currently working on our K1 package but there's a situation we are unsure about.

I've been hearing that when a possible red flag is around, to front load the initial petition. Leo is 9.5 years younger than me and we've been dating online for 4 and a half years. I'm 30 and he's 21. Its never been a problem between us online because I matured late and he matured fast, so we met somewhere in between. In person there was never a problem either. We often forget about it to be honest but reading about it possibly being a red flag puts me on the defensive. Being reverse age, I'm afraid there will be discrimination. I also read that it might be a problem in high fraud countries. Is Malaysia high fraud?

Anyways, we're planning to front load the petition with extra proof of our relationship because when I went there for my tourist visa interview before, the lady refused to see any evidence I brought. So to avoid them blindly denying us without giving me a chance to show more proof, we thought it safe to just front load it so they have no choice but to acknowledge it.

The evidence we are including in the petition is:

1. Stubs of packages I sent to him from Malaysia to USA over the years. Ranging from 2005 till present. We can't find any stubs of packages he sent me.

2. Chat window and web cam screen shots taken of MSN conversations taken in 2006 (we stopped using MSN to chat after skype was discovered)

3. Skype chat windows of voice and web cam snapshots (We don't have any decent ones as of now, so we're gonna take them soon before the package)

4. His company owned video chat client web cam snap shots (all recent)

5. Long distance telephone records. Phone records from US cellular and Verizon showing a detailed bill of him calling my local SkypeIn number there and me calling him and bills and receipts of skype showing the calls I made to his numbers and the numbers I own in US.

6. Emails between us dating back from 2005 (4 each)

7. A CD-RW including videos taken when we met recently (I have heard that they dont accept electronic media but I read a member from South Korea including this and getting approved in a month, so what the hell)

Cant think of any other evidence to send. The original petition pictures of us meeting includes him with my family at dinner.

My question is, if we send this proof with the original K1 petition, will it be included in the package forwarded through NVC to the embassy? I read somewhere that they disassemble the package at the service centers and throw away what they don't need but still some people front load things. So a little confused on the matter. For those that front loaded their evidence, did it turn up at the embassy when you went for the interview? I will be bringing the originals with me but the main concern is making sure they have proof included incase they refuse to see what I bring.

Thanks in advance.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hey guys,

Posting again. We're currently working on our K1 package but there's a situation we are unsure about.

I've been hearing that when a possible red flag is around, to front load the initial petition. Leo is 9.5 years younger than me and we've been dating online for 4 and a half years. I'm 30 and he's 21. Its never been a problem between us online because I matured late and he matured fast, so we met somewhere in between. In person there was never a problem either. We often forget about it to be honest but reading about it possibly being a red flag puts me on the defensive. Being reverse age, I'm afraid there will be discrimination. I also read that it might be a problem in high fraud countries. Is Malaysia high fraud?

Anyways, we're planning to front load the petition with extra proof of our relationship because when I went there for my tourist visa interview before, the lady refused to see any evidence I brought. So to avoid them blindly denying us without giving me a chance to show more proof, we thought it safe to just front load it so they have no choice but to acknowledge it.

The evidence we are including in the petition is:

1. Stubs of packages I sent to him from Malaysia to USA over the years. Ranging from 2005 till present. We can't find any stubs of packages he sent me.

2. Chat window and web cam screen shots taken of MSN conversations taken in 2006 (we stopped using MSN to chat after skype was discovered)

3. Skype chat windows of voice and web cam snapshots (We don't have any decent ones as of now, so we're gonna take them soon before the package)

4. His company owned video chat client web cam snap shots (all recent)

5. Long distance telephone records. Phone records from US cellular and Verizon showing a detailed bill of him calling my local SkypeIn number there and me calling him and bills and receipts of skype showing the calls I made to his numbers and the numbers I own in US.

6. Emails between us dating back from 2005 (4 each)

7. A CD-RW including videos taken when we met recently (I have heard that they dont accept electronic media but I read a member from South Korea including this and getting approved in a month, so what the hell)

Cant think of any other evidence to send. The original petition pictures of us meeting includes him with my family at dinner.

My question is, if we send this proof with the original K1 petition, will it be included in the package forwarded through NVC to the embassy? I read somewhere that they disassemble the package at the service centers and throw away what they don't need but still some people front load things. So a little confused on the matter. For those that front loaded their evidence, did it turn up at the embassy when you went for the interview? I will be bringing the originals with me but the main concern is making sure they have proof included incase they refuse to see what I bring.

Thanks in advance.

There is the "school of thought" that documents submitted with the original petition cannot be denied as evidence at the consulate later. Not sure how that works out in practice, but if you are going through a consulate with a reputation for arbitrarily denying evidence, why not?

[Dakine 26]

Hey guys,

Posting again. We're currently working on our K1 package but there's a situation we are unsure about.

I've been hearing that when a possible red flag is around, to front load the initial petition. Leo is 9.5 years younger than me and we've been dating online for 4 and a half years. I'm 30 and he's 21. Its never been a problem between us online because I matured late and he matured fast, so we met somewhere in between. In person there was never a problem either. We often forget about it to be honest but reading about it possibly being a red flag puts me on the defensive. Being reverse age, I'm afraid there will be discrimination. I also read that it might be a problem in high fraud countries. Is Malaysia high fraud?

Anyways, we're planning to front load the petition with extra proof of our relationship because when I went there for my tourist visa interview before, the lady refused to see any evidence I brought. So to avoid them blindly denying us without giving me a chance to show more proof, we thought it safe to just front load it so they have no choice but to acknowledge it.

The evidence we are including in the petition is:

1. Stubs of packages I sent to him from Malaysia to USA over the years. Ranging from 2005 till present. We can't find any stubs of packages he sent me.

2. Chat window and web cam screen shots taken of MSN conversations taken in 2006 (we stopped using MSN to chat after skype was discovered)

3. Skype chat windows of voice and web cam snapshots (We don't have any decent ones as of now, so we're gonna take them soon before the package)

4. His company owned video chat client web cam snap shots (all recent)

5. Long distance telephone records. Phone records from US cellular and Verizon showing a detailed bill of him calling my local SkypeIn number there and me calling him and bills and receipts of skype showing the calls I made to his numbers and the numbers I own in US.

6. Emails between us dating back from 2005 (4 each)

7. A CD-RW including videos taken when we met recently (I have heard that they dont accept electronic media but I read a member from South Korea including this and getting approved in a month, so what the hell)

Cant think of any other evidence to send. The original petition pictures of us meeting includes him with my family at dinner.

My question is, if we send this proof with the original K1 petition, will it be included in the package forwarded through NVC to the embassy? I read somewhere that they disassemble the package at the service centers and throw away what they don't need but still some people front load things. So a little confused on the matter. For those that front loaded their evidence, did it turn up at the embassy when you went for the interview? I will be bringing the originals with me but the main concern is making sure they have proof included incase they refuse to see what I bring.

Thanks in advance.

There is the "school of thought" that documents submitted with the original petition cannot be denied as evidence at the consulate later. Not sure how that works out in practice, but if you are going through a consulate with a reputation for arbitrarily denying evidence, why not?

Main thing is to make copies of EVERYTHING you submit so the bene can review before their interview. The CO may ask questions relating to information you submit.

[klester 0]

May seem like obvious evidence you didn't include on your list, but be sure to include any and all flight itineraries from visiting each other, flight ticket stubs, pictures of passport stickers, and that kind of stuff.

[pushbrk 12,232]

May seem like obvious evidence you didn't include on your list, but be sure to include any and all flight itineraries from visiting each other, flight ticket stubs, pictures of passport stickers, and that kind of stuff.

Yes, everything submitted with the petition will make it to the Consulate. However, I too noticed you listed no paper evidence of ever having met in person during the past two years. That would be critical. Don't count on anybody seeing your video. Send boarding passes and copies of passport stamps.

Edited April 4, 2009 by pushbrk

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hey guys,

Posting again. We're currently working on our K1 package but there's a situation we are unsure about.

I've been hearing that when a possible red flag is around, to front load the initial petition. Leo is 9.5 years younger than me and we've been dating online for 4 and a half years. I'm 30 and he's 21. Its never been a problem between us online because I matured late and he matured fast, so we met somewhere in between. In person there was never a problem either. We often forget about it to be honest but reading about it possibly being a red flag puts me on the defensive. Being reverse age, I'm afraid there will be discrimination. I also read that it might be a problem in high fraud countries. Is Malaysia high fraud?

Anyways, we're planning to front load the petition with extra proof of our relationship because when I went there for my tourist visa interview before, the lady refused to see any evidence I brought. So to avoid them blindly denying us without giving me a chance to show more proof, we thought it safe to just front load it so they have no choice but to acknowledge it.

The evidence we are including in the petition is:

1. Stubs of packages I sent to him from Malaysia to USA over the years. Ranging from 2005 till present. We can't find any stubs of packages he sent me.

2. Chat window and web cam screen shots taken of MSN conversations taken in 2006 (we stopped using MSN to chat after skype was discovered)

3. Skype chat windows of voice and web cam snapshots (We don't have any decent ones as of now, so we're gonna take them soon before the package)

4. His company owned video chat client web cam snap shots (all recent)

5. Long distance telephone records. Phone records from US cellular and Verizon showing a detailed bill of him calling my local SkypeIn number there and me calling him and bills and receipts of skype showing the calls I made to his numbers and the numbers I own in US.

6. Emails between us dating back from 2005 (4 each)

7. A CD-RW including videos taken when we met recently (I have heard that they dont accept electronic media but I read a member from South Korea including this and getting approved in a month, so what the hell)

Cant think of any other evidence to send. The original petition pictures of us meeting includes him with my family at dinner.

My question is, if we send this proof with the original K1 petition, will it be included in the package forwarded through NVC to the embassy? I read somewhere that they disassemble the package at the service centers and throw away what they don't need but still some people front load things. So a little confused on the matter. For those that front loaded their evidence, did it turn up at the embassy when you went for the interview? I will be bringing the originals with me but the main concern is making sure they have proof included incase they refuse to see what I bring.

Thanks in advance.

Also, they do not throw away evidence, but they will disassemble your package and put it into a standard file the same as everyone's. So elaborate packaging is not needed. Just make sure everything is there and neatly organized

[Leo&Farah 0]

May seem like obvious evidence you didn't include on your list, but be sure to include any and all flight itineraries from visiting each other, flight ticket stubs, pictures of passport stickers, and that kind of stuff.

Oh, I neglected to mention it because it was obvious

But for future reference, we are including this:

7.1 E-ticket / flight itinerary – Asiana Airlines

7.2 Flight Receipt – Asiana Airlines

7.2 US Passport Visa Date Stamps

7.3 Boarding Passes - Asiana Airlines

7.4 Paid Hotel Bill, Beringgis Beach Resort, Papar, Sabah, Malaysia

7.5 Paid Hotel Bill, Tempurung Seaside Lodge, Kuala Penyu, Sabah, Malaysia

7.6 Paid Hotel Bill, Promenade Hotel Apartment, Kota Kinabalu, Sabah, Malaysia

7.7 Other receipts

7.8 Photos of Leo and Farah in Sabah, Malaysia

We are including 35 pictures, each marked with name and date and place. Our evidence documents our every movement, theres pics infront of the hotel sign, holding the hotel keys that have the hotel name on it (was a nice keychain too), pics with staff of the hotel restaurant that were nice to us etc. We also have receipts of his money exchange in Seoul, boarding passes from and to everywhere, even a receipt for the dinner we had with my family. Receipts for when we went to the zoo, a picture in front of the zoo sign, the shuttle receipt that took us there and the taxi that took us to the hotel from the airport with the airport and hotel name on it. Included in the hotel receipts are also our restaurant receipts which we signed to our room. We both signed them so it shows our names and room number on multiple receipts along with what we ate. It worked out pretty well that the hotel had a system like that which included restaurant receipts with the main bill.

[TBoneTX 43,417]

In my opinion (with rueful hindsight, as one who got burned by NOT front-loading), your preparation is admirable, and the front-loading cannot hurt at all. When you are called for the consular interview later, be sure that the USC attends. Bring along a solid amount of additional evidence that the two of you collect after this I-129F filing, and prepare thoroughly for the interview by reviewing and discussing all details of the old & new evidence in depth. The pre-interview review will be helpful for its primary purpose, with the bonus that the two of you will enjoy reliving your memories of your time spent together. I would also suggest that you include (in the I-129F filing) a detailed letter that describes the progression (timeline) of your relationship, and perhaps an explanation of your age differences much like you told us.

Is Malaysia considered "high-fraud" regarding natives' attempts to be granted family-based visas? "Any poor country" can fall into this category, according to an immigration attorney who used to be a consular officer. Read the various VJ reviews of your consulate, and perhaps also try a Google search to see whether anything illuminating comes up.

[Leo&Farah 0]

Thanks for all the answers guys and the heads up.

After TBoneTX's suggestion, we expanded our answer for Question 18 on the I-129F form to included the time line of the past 4 years, how we met online and in person, the reason why it took that long for us to meet, how our communication evolved over the years, addressing the age difference issue, how our families reacted. We basically combined the time line letter suggested with question 18 since they have to read that anyway. Its about 2 pages long.

I'm wondering another thing though. For those that front loaded the initial petition, how many pages on average did you send in? What is 'too much'? Or is there 'too much'?

Ours is organized neatly, so the evidence for relationship will be at the back of the petition after the forms, letters of intent, passport photos and evidence of meeting, so it wont really confuse or clutter the package per say. I'm just wondering of the average page number for those of you that sent the petition in with added evidence and if having too much is a bad thing. And what exactly is too much. I think we're looking at maybe 150 pages here MAX as receipts for us meeting was already 13 pages. He doesnt have a back for his birth cert and its an official embossed copy but in black and white, so we're including all pages of his passport to avoid an RFE incase someone gets cranky at the center. There is also 6 months of skype call records in 2007, and 6 months in 2008, 6 months of verizon call records etc. So if they want proof, we have plenty of proof. Just wanna make sure they receive it and don't have a chance to pull the plug on everything by 'asking for more proof but not wanting to see what you bring to the interview'. I always wondered how that worked. I read the interview with the ex-USCIS guy but I'm torn between not overloading them and regretting not doing it if problems arise later.

This is the most important thing in our lives right now so we want to make sure we do it right the first time, cover all our bases and squish any problems that might arise through preparation.

Hmm, so in a nutshell how many pages on average for those that front loaded their petition?

[Marina-Del 10]

A couple comments: In some ways I think that there is no such thing as too much...but in other ways I disagree with myself. For example, you mention that you are including 35 pictures. That is A LOT! Seriously. Pictures are not primary evidence and therefore technically not needed at all (although I think we all agree some pictures are good), but 35 is tons! You also mentioned some of the pictures that you plan on including like a pic with the hotel sign (that you have the receipt for), a pic with the keys, a pic with the staff....I really really really don't think that all 3 of these pictures are needed. Stick with the one with the hotel sign as you have the receipt and the names will match (even though most likely no one will ever notice or care about that), but the other 2, take out. I don't think we can say that you have "too much" but I think we can say that the person going over your file isn't going to look at all of those or even care that they are added since they are totally not needed.

And don't even bother adding the CD with videos. THEY WILL NOT LOOK AT IT. No one will ever look at it. So don't even bother. If someone included a CD with video and then got approved quickly, this was coincidence. End of story.

I included a lot of extra stuff in my packet too and I think we probably had about 15 pictures that were taken from the different range of times we saw each other. Also, a 2 page answer to question 18 is IMO too long. Maybe others have different ideas. You don't want the person who is going over your file to get bored and pissed off because it's so much to read! You want them to see the point of your story, to see how you met, identify that it was a legitimate meeting within the last two years and move on. If they have a problem with the age difference that will be address at the interview. OR, you could include another letter in the packet talking about that...but I think that you have question 18 too long.

And when you say 6 months of proof for the call records what do you mean? You mean you printed 6 whole months or calls out for each year!? I would pick like a week every month or something if that is less or I don't know...that just seems like a lot. But, whatever I guess.

And as someone else said, make copies because while it should be at the embassy, I never saw any of our evidence that we sent with the original packet again. That is not to say they didn't have it, but I didn't see it. However, I did have a copy of our entire I-129F packet in my backpack at the interview.

Good luck!

Edited April 10, 2009 by Marina-Del

[Leo&Farah 0]

A couple comments: In some ways I think that there is no such thing as too much...but in other ways I disagree with myself. For example, you mention that you are including 35 pictures. That is A LOT! Seriously. Pictures are not primary evidence and therefore technically not needed at all (although I think we all agree some pictures are good), but 35 is tons! You also mentioned some of the pictures that you plan on including like a pic with the hotel sign (that you have the receipt for), a pic with the keys, a pic with the staff....I really really really don't think that all 3 of these pictures are needed. Stick with the one with the hotel sign as you have the receipt and the names will match (even though most likely no one will ever notice or care about that), but the other 2, take out. I don't think we can say that you have "too much" but I think we can say that the person going over your file isn't going to look at all of those or even care that they are added since they are totally not needed.

And don't even bother adding the CD with videos. THEY WILL NOT LOOK AT IT. No one will ever look at it. So don't even bother. If someone included a CD with video and then got approved quickly, this was coincidence. End of story.

I included a lot of extra stuff in my packet too and I think we probably had about 15 pictures that were taken from the different range of times we saw each other. Also, a 2 page answer to question 18 is IMO too long. Maybe others have different ideas. You don't want the person who is going over your file to get bored and pissed off because it's so much to read! You want them to see the point of your story, to see how you met, identify that it was a legitimate meeting within the last two years and move on. If they have a problem with the age difference that will be address at the interview. OR, you could include another letter in the packet talking about that...but I think that you have question 18 too long.

And when you say 6 months of proof for the call records what do you mean? You mean you printed 6 whole months or calls out for each year!? I would pick like a week every month or something if that is less or I don't know...that just seems like a lot. But, whatever I guess.

And as someone else said, make copies because while it should be at the embassy, I never saw any of our evidence that we sent with the original packet again. That is not to say they didn't have it, but I didn't see it. However, I did have a copy of our entire I-129F packet in my backpack at the interview.

Good luck!

To answer your questions/issues: Well the pic of the keys actually shows the lodge name very clearly. That's why we included it. It was a different lodging from the place we took the pic by the sign. As for the 6 months, yes 6 months of printed skype calls each for 2007 and 2008. Not really sure how to separate it into weeks since its all printed at once. Same goes for verizon which is in spreadsheet format. I suppose we could take a page off each month but we had included it all so it didn't seem 'incomplete'. We will probably take out the CD then since I'm hearing so many say the same thing. We included 35 pictures because our meeting was extremely short despite the number of years we've been together due to him not being able to take more than a week off. So we tried compensating the time with more pics.

We will have a perfect replica of the original package sent to USCIS which he will send to me before my interview along with the affidavit, original documents needed then.

Thanks in advance.