True Love or "Abuse" Fraud? (Long Story)

[wom2008 0]

Your situation Valsu should I say action are really not very smart.

You bought a big house, change your car to a newer one but until now could not get your wife's papers processed?

Well, i'm still in the philippines and my husband already gathering necessary papers so that when I get here we can sprocess everything as early as possible because that's what most important thing to do, to process everything to make your wife legal when she step in this land and take care all her needs as well as making her understand that she is now in the land of opportunity and she have to face the reality of life being married.

Your responsible to everything that she needs aside from going to a restaurant everyday and shops for unimportant things.

Here's a hort story from an old asawa forum:

A man petition his fiance, she gets here but they did not married until after 3 months her being here(not good)

After getting married, the husband did not do anything else. He goes to work, come home, expect the wife to make love(should I call it love) with him after the whole day of her taking care her husband's parents with cancer. Yes both have cancer.

everyday of her life fro 9 months, she would just stay home. Clean the house, take care of her in-laws who are both sick. And at least once a week cleaning up the mess of her step-children when they are visiting.

She is so frustrated, cna't do nothing because she is illegal and the husband doesn't care.

After 9 months of griefs and sufferings she started going to her neighbors and ask if they can give her they cans, yes the cans of goods that are in the trash or recycle bin. She collects them and ask one of her friend to drive her to the grocery where she can put them in a machine for some coins. She save those money she coleected from those can. She found a friend too who helps her work in a restaurant (with under the table pay).

she saves money untill it's good enough to pay an attorney to help her process her papers.

The attorney ask her a valid reason for the delay of her applications... The only answer she gave him is "My husband can't afford it because he is now spending almost his salary to help his parents medication and hospitalization"

Untill now she is with him, helps him with expenses at home. She got her green card without the help of her husband.

Edited November 25, 2008 by wom2008

[Jon&Lindsey 0]

himher, I get what you are saying, but sometimes people genuinely cannot afford to file AOS immediately. In our case, we couldn't for 5 months, so I was stuck at home, out of status and doing the housework. I couldn't get a DL until I'd been stuck at home for 9 months. Yes, it sucked. Does that mean my husband was abusing me? No, we just had no money, though circumstances entirely not the fault of my husband. Unfortunately some people don't have the luxury of being able to do it right away. If I had been offered a trade like clean at my stepkid's school to save money to pay for AOS, I would've jumped at it. From my impression of the OP, if he had had the money, they would've filed already and probably avoided many of their problems. There is a difference between being unwilling to pay and unable to pay.

[nycgirl 13]

himher, I get what you are saying, but sometimes people genuinely cannot afford to file AOS immediately. In our case, we couldn't for 5 months, so I was stuck at home, out of status and doing the housework. I couldn't get a DL until I'd been stuck at home for 9 months. Yes, it sucked. Does that mean my husband was abusing me? No, we just had no money, though circumstances entirely not the fault of my husband. Unfortunately some people don't have the luxury of being able to do it right away. If I had been offered a trade like clean at my stepkid's school to save money to pay for AOS, I would've jumped at it. From my impression of the OP, if he had had the money, they would've filed already and probably avoided many of their problems. There is a difference between being unwilling to pay and unable to pay.

Maybe you would have "jumped at it" But its all a matter of how it was presented. I have a feeling that you are on EQUAL FOOTING with your husband in many ways. You would have probably had a two-sided, reasonable discussion with your husband. It seems that this woman was NEVER in that position (of equal footing). Notice how he presents his side of that situation then says: , "Now that you have seen the logical side of things" What??? As if her side could not possibly have been logical. He seems to me to want to be IN CONTROL of EVERYTHING. Very manipulative.

[Valsu 1]

Valsu,

I believe you care for your wife. Apparently she's suffering from the impact of a miscarriage.

In addition, she's suffering from the abuse you subjected her to. You treated your wife as a maid who is also expected to "put out". Please stop blaming her and start figuring out how to be a good husband to her if you get the chance.

Pushbrk, I've always respected the advice you've given on the boards--especially your diligence to help others with their immigration matters. You'd actually be quite surprised to know who this is you're talking to. Nonetheless, if you would read the responses I've left to countless others, you'd know that I am not utlimately blaming her, but instead I am taking the blame and have gone great lengths to change all of my priorities for our relationship.

Also, I never forced her to be a maid. The things she did around the house were things she chose to do on her own without my asking. It seems other women here don't mind handling the responsibilities of their households, either way, and you cannot call that "abuse."

Taking care of a family is a privilege and an honor. I always took care of my children because I wanted to, and I knew it was my duty. I took care of my wife because I wanted to, and it was my duty. Unfortunately, I neglected my wife's emotional and psychological needs; and now that I've realized that, I once again want to help her, and change myself, because I feel it's my duty. That's where marriage becomes a two-way street. If I make all of these changes and corrections to myself, and it ends up not being good enough for her in the long run, then I will know the problem doesn't lie with me as much as I thought.

A lot is hinging on her decisions from this point forward. Hopefully, I can come back here with good news in the near future.

[nycgirl 13]

himher, I get what you are saying, but sometimes people genuinely cannot afford to file AOS immediately. In our case, we couldn't for 5 months, so I was stuck at home, out of status and doing the housework. I couldn't get a DL until I'd been stuck at home for 9 months. Yes, it sucked. Does that mean my husband was abusing me? No, we just had no money, though circumstances entirely not the fault of my husband. Unfortunately some people don't have the luxury of being able to do it right away. If I had been offered a trade like clean at my stepkid's school to save money to pay for AOS, I would've jumped at it. From my impression of the OP, if he had had the money, they would've filed already and probably avoided many of their problems. There is a difference between being unwilling to pay and unable to pay.

Exactly!!!!! Hmmmmm, guess which one this is??

[Ban Hammer 12,863]

She is so frustrated, cna't do nothing because she is illegal and the husband doesn't care.

no, she's not illegal. she's out of status.

[Valsu 1]

OMG I missed this part of the tale. In addition to everything else, you put your wife to work vacuuming and cleaning and earning tuition for your kids at your church to go to private school? $330 is not $660 and it's nothing if you are working for free to allow stepchildren to attend private school. No wonder your office folded.

I didn't "put" my wife to work doing any of those things. The church/school "offered" it as an option to her to help us with our finances. She turned it down--not a big deal, but the savings we'd have incurred those months would have been well worth it--and she was so "bored" and had nothing else to do--which was her greatest complaint: nothing to do. No, $330 is not $660--that is not what I said. I am speaking about the difference from expense to savings. If you have $330 budgeted in your bills, and you spend it, it's gone. It becomes -$330 in your bank account out of your budget. If you do not spend it, and rather, place it in savings, it becomes a +$330 income instead. Meaning it is money that you now have to spend, that you would NOT have had before--saved from your budget. In reality, you're just saving $330, but the spectrum is a $660 value, because you've reduced your budget.

My office did not "fold" by the way. I was working for a large company, and their business was contract specific. Their contract expired, and they lost the rebid. Happens to all companies that contract services.

In response to your initial post, I am with-holding further comment and attempting to bring this back to topic:

Your wife has this evidence:

She arrived in the US

She lived, cooked, cleaned in your house

She was asked to clean and work in your church

She was never offered the chance to adjust to legal status after her visa expired, effectively limiting her options and holding her a prisoner to the situation she was in

SO.....she bolted to a woman's shelter

You searched for her and located her, after which the magic words "please do not attempt to communicate with me" were offered

You continued, after she asked you not to, to use everything in your power to track, communicate with, and bother her

Her logical next step will be to have the shelter, based on your repeated attempts to contact her, have the local court issue a (free of charge) restraining order.

Once the restraining order is issued, for harassment, she will be eligible to file AOS on her own and claim VAWA status. From what I can tell, and from your own words, she will be able to show to the satisfaction of a government moron (with free help from a public shelter) that she entered into the marriage with good intentions, was put in a situation of servitude, and even asked to work without EAD approval for her stepchildren's tuition, in addition to being in a hostile home environment where she was expected to go along with all the decisions because her status, even if it was unsaid, was in the hands of her husband. Said husband, when she got out of the situation, used every means and resource to track, bother, and harass her, to the point of her needing a restraining order, and suddenly/magically she doesn't need you anymore to continue/complete her immigration process.

Intentions or not, on paper, your situation looks bad from the outside. Since you can't show a single ACTION taken on her behalf, just for her, since she arrived, the interpretation of events will likely favor her and whatever her claims are. Since her attorney will be free he/she will be able to subpenae everyone in sight and if this went down like you yourself describe it's likely she will be able to successfully adjust her status and move on.

If she does that because I have inquired from her sister whether she is OK or not, and send her a Thanksgiving card from the kids and I, then that was her intention from the start. I am no fool in this matter any longer, himher. My attorney, DV police, and even shelter workers, have educated and advised me on the appropriate steps and plans of actions with our given situation.

You make it sound like she was demanded to do the things she did, and she wasn't. Even the church/school "offered" her the ability to work there a few hours a week (MOST of the church members volunteer the SAME thing and MUCH more for FREE, without getting ANY credits of ANY kind), to simply help us with our financial hardships while trying to keep the children in the school. Her unwillingness to do that, while having nothing else to do, was certainly questionable to say the least. HAD she done it, we'd had her AOS/EAD done in three months. I obviously didn't force her, as you can see, she didn't take the offer, and did not do it.

Either way, I do not believe she is going to file some restraining order on me because of my efforts; and if she does, then, well, I have my answer of where her heart is. If she gets her status in that manner, then it was surely her plan all along, and more power to her. I will not stop her from getting what she wants. I love her, but in that situation, I'd have to let her go.

[Old Dominion 26]

Valsu, whatever your wife decides to do, and whenever she decides to do it, I hope your kids can be reassured that it was through no fault of theirs that this is happening.

If she returns, vow to maintain a sharing marriage in which it is no longer "my budget" or "my house" but "ours." Decisions may take a little more time, but that is all part of growing together as, in St. Paul's words in Ephesians, as united in "one flesh." Your recitation of Ephesians was incomplete in that respect. You also omitted the principle that a man is expected to leave father and mother once married. If your mother's presence in your marriage was needed, it should have been a joint decision of husband and wife.

And for the sake of everyone, just forget how much money you lavished on courting her - which, by itself, may have given her the impression that there was plenty more where that came from. Whatever words you may have used to explain why it wouldn't be possible to file for her EAD/AOS right away, may not have registered with her in light of your heavy spending in the Phils. Given the choice to make, perhaps she would have wanted you NOT to spend all that money during those visits, and instead set it aside for the requirements of your marriage. No doubt she did not have the chance to urge you to be more frugal.

In short, the miscarriage and possible infertility meant that she lacked any standing whatsoever in your marriage, not even as mother to your third child. That would have empowered her, perhaps.

[Valsu 1]

The entire "I'm a holy religious guy who doesn't pay a bunch of hard working janitors squat, has mom living with me, send my children to a church school" thing stinks. I grew up in a family that scored almost as high on the same scales, and can say without a doubt that abuse takes many forms in such families. I've said it before, you read like way unbelievable to me, and if you are what i think you are, your wife is lucky to be gone. Best of luck to her. Take care of your own kids/mother/vaccuming.

You're quite amusing. I do not claim to be a holy, religious guy at all. I do believe in Jesus, and am sure of my salvation. As for what I pay the Janitors in our company, I pay my staff well over $1 more an hour than any other equally competitive company in our area for the same work, and yet we still generally have a better price than our competitors, while staying on budget. I have no employess making minimum wage ($6.55 here), and that is saying a LOT for a company like ours. Apparently you have a problem with prviate school--which is fine--but I was achieving it before, and I didn't see a need to change anything unless absolutely necessary. It was my conviction to send them there, and it was hard for me to pull them out and away from their friends. Anything else you want me to imbellish on? If you saw the way my children loved their father, you would retract your statement regarding the insinuation of "abuse" in our home.

[Valsu 1]

You can't claim to save 330 and also earn 330 and come up with 660, I hope you are in marketting or politics, that kind of math doesn't pay off anywhere else, it also explains why you couldn't budget for the AOS for so long...

If I ever wanted to troll VJ, you've given me some incredibly good ideas on how to go about it...

I will just copy another answer for you regarding my "logic" behind this. I did not say we came up with $660 using that formula. I was regarding a financial spectrum. Read a former statement:

"No, $330 is not $660--that is not what I said. I am speaking about the difference from expense to savings. If you have $330 budgeted in your bills, and you spend it, it's gone. It becomes -$330 in your bank account out of your budget. If you do not spend it, and rather, place it in savings, it becomes a +$330 income instead. Meaning it is money that you now have to spend, that you would NOT have had before--saved from your budget. In reality, you're just saving $330, but the spectrum is a $660 value, because you've reduced your budget."

Here's Math for you:

Let's say I have $5000 a month. (earnings)

My bills are $4500 a month. (budget)

My profit is $500 a month. (income)

There is a difference of $500 between my budget and income.

Now, let's say I received a $500 credit each month on a bill.

Now my Bills are $4000 a month. (budget)

My profit increases to $1000 a month. (income)

Now, there is a difference of $1000 between my budget and income.

The spectrum therefore has a $1000 value, even though the actuall difference is only $500.

Why? Because $500 is being kept as income to one's self, and the other $500 is being credited into your budget.

It's called having your cake, and eating it too.

We're talking about a "spectrum" value; not an actual value.

In essence, the kids would have obtained their school for free, and we would have been able to apply that previously budgeted money toward something else.

Now, if only our electric companies would work out similar deals ...

[Valsu 1]

It isn't like my wife and I didn't go through our own adjustment period just like everyone on this board either will do or has done. My wife was used to working every day, english is her second language and yes we've had some misunderstandings just because sentences weren't worded correctly (from me lol), and we went through all the other adjustment stuff that couples establishing a household together have to go through. It would never have crossed my mind though not to follow through the immigration process to the end and make sure that we got her EAD, drivers license, green card, and everything else done and processed in the shortest amount of time possible. That was always a MUST DO thing with us, actually to me more than to her, until she realized that getting the same flexibility of movement that she had at home is tied to completing the immigration process. My wife read through all these posts and we actually discussed this for awhile. She shared that just being able to drive and get around was a huge thing to her in the adjustment process. She stays home, and is actually happy staying home, but if she wants to look for a job she can and she shared with me - the fact she can if she wants to, is more important than actually doing it. She is in no hurry to work (we're preggie now anyway lol), her visa is good for (2) years, we didn't have to file AOS right away, but it just seemed like the right thing to do to move things along and get her acclimated into the community as quickly as possible. In addition, putting your name on the I485 and getting the papers filed is a statement of faith in your spouse and in your marriage, it's kind of an "all in", for better or worse, and that in itself can be interpreted as a tangible sign of commitment to the marriage and to the person you married.

Notice, your wife actually discusses things with you. Big difference.

K1 limbo is worse. Within 90 days, a K1 is effectively out of status. Even "pending AOS" is a category of legal status but otherwise a spouse is kind of stuck, see above, with few to no options other than servicing the other spouse. From our own case, imagining what would have happened to us had we put off getting my wife acclimated to the community and life here, I can see how the OP's actions could be interpreted in a negative way by the spouse especially if there was a communication gap, misunderstanding of cultures, and lack of empathy on the USC's side as to how the overall situation could be effecting his wife. Being in limbo probably feels a lot like being trapped (i'm sure motormouth will be back and argue about how there's no possible way his wife felt that way because of all of his "husband of the year" actions) but even after a couple of months of waiting with everything filed and in process that's how my wife described she felt during her wait for DL, etc before she could get out, drive around, and do simple things like meet her friends for coffee or just go to the store.

It's comical how you add words to things I say, nonetheless, I'm quite positive I spent a lot of time explaining that my wife felt the same as you described above--and over time I admitted to simply not recognizing it the way I should have. I also spent a lot of time admitting to my faults; and if that is a self-proclamation that I'm "husband of the year," then it's only so in your interpretation. I never claimed such, and openly confessed my struggles and complications--regardless how pretty, bad, or pretty bad.

I didn't know what my wife was truly going through, but I do know now; and the fact is I simply want her to be willing to give me a shot to make it up to her. That's her choice though, so only time will tell.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Valsu

[Valsu 1]

Your situation Valsu should I say action are really not very smart.

You bought a big house, change your car to a newer one but until now could not get your wife's papers processed?

Well, i'm still in the philippines and my husband already gathering necessary papers so that when I get here we can sprocess everything as early as possible because that's what most important thing to do, to process everything to make your wife legal when she step in this land and take care all her needs as well as making her understand that she is now in the land of opportunity and she have to face the reality of life being married.

Your responsible to everything that she needs aside from going to a restaurant everyday and shops for unimportant things.

Trading my car didn't cost me anything up front--just made my insurance go up, and payments slightly increased. She hated the car I had, and wanted me to trade it in. I was actually quite content with my little car. Although, the hybrid we got gave us much better gas mileage--and looks more professional, which is why she liked it more.

Also, yes, it's true. You'd be surprised how many people are budgeted to the wire--where $1000 will break or make you. We had to get a home though. It was either that, or we were going to stay in a hotel for a long time to come, and she refused to live in an apartment. She had to have a house, so I got her one.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Valsu

[Valsu 1]

Maybe you would have "jumped at it" But its all a matter of how it was presented. I have a feeling that you are on EQUAL FOOTING with your husband in many ways. You would have probably had a two-sided, reasonable discussion with your husband. It seems that this woman was NEVER in that position (of equal footing). Notice how he presents his side of that situation then says: , "Now that you have seen the logical side of things" What??? As if her side could not possibly have been logical. He seems to me to want to be IN CONTROL of EVERYTHING. Very manipulative.

So, I work an average of 14 hours a day, M-F, to make ends meet and feed my family, and you think it would not be logical for her to contribute in any way, shape or form when the opportunity is handed over on a silver platter? Of course I was thinking logically. At the time, though, I just did not realize the reason she didn't take the opporunity had nothing to do with not wanting to contribute--she was simply afraid that working in such manner might cause her another miscarriage. Had she opened up and told me that, it would have made more sense.

That was not me being "In control of everything." That was me not being able to read her mind. You talk about others having a reasonable discussion with their spouses, and you fail to see that was our problem. She would not communicate her feelings after her miscarriage--period. Before the miscarriage, however, we had the most open relationship a couple could have, and it was simply amazing. I want that back, and if she decides to come home, I will do anything I can to help her emotionally and psychologically achieve that. Not because I want to control her, but because I love her, and I want us to both be happy and compatible together.

[Valsu 1]

Valsu, whatever your wife decides to do, and whenever she decides to do it, I hope your kids can be reassured that it was through no fault of theirs that this is happening.

If she returns, vow to maintain a sharing marriage in which it is no longer "my budget" or "my house" but "ours." Decisions may take a little more time, but that is all part of growing together as, in St. Paul's words in Ephesians, as united in "one flesh." Your recitation of Ephesians was incomplete in that respect. You also omitted the principle that a man is expected to leave father and mother once married. If your mother's presence in your marriage was needed, it should have been a joint decision of husband and wife.

And for the sake of everyone, just forget how much money you lavished on courting her - which, by itself, may have given her the impression that there was plenty more where that came from. Whatever words you may have used to explain why it wouldn't be possible to file for her EAD/AOS right away, may not have registered with her in light of your heavy spending in the Phils. Given the choice to make, perhaps she would have wanted you NOT to spend all that money during those visits, and instead set it aside for the requirements of your marriage. No doubt she did not have the chance to urge you to be more frugal.

In short, the miscarriage and possible infertility meant that she lacked any standing whatsoever in your marriage, not even as mother to your third child. That would have empowered her, perhaps.

I didn't misquote anything, I just didn't bother writing the whole chapter. I only pulled out the verses that were dealing with that one situation. The principle of leaving father and mother did not apply to us, as that was initially a joint decision between both of us, and was primarily her idea. I wasn't lavishing on the money I spent on her. People asked me and challenged me, so I just broke it down for informative purposes. I don't care about that money, and if I did, I wouldn't have spent it. I trusted and believed that she would start a career once she got here--that was her goal--and that's why I took the financial risks. Perhaps silly on my part for someone I only knew a couple years, but love will cause you to do silly things.

As for my spending in the Philippines, she's the one who made our travel plans, hotel arrangements, and everything. I always kept her aware of my limitations. She had access to my bank accounts quite early on, and knew our budget and finances. I never hid anything from her financially.

As for the miscarriage and infertility, I see that as the primary problem altogether. Thankfully, with VJ members and their bright intuitivenesses, we've been able to uncover most of the mysteries underlying her thoughts and internal sufferings. I appreciate everyone's responses. I hope to report a happy ending to this cycle, and a new begining soon.

[pushbrk 12,160]

Valsu,

I believe you care for your wife. Apparently she's suffering from the impact of a miscarriage.

In addition, she's suffering from the abuse you subjected her to. You treated your wife as a maid who is also expected to "put out". Please stop blaming her and start figuring out how to be a good husband to her if you get the chance.

Pushbrk, I've always respected the advice you've given on the boards--especially your diligence to help others with their immigration matters. You'd actually be quite surprised to know who this is you're talking to. Nonetheless, if you would read the responses I've left to countless others, you'd know that I am not utlimately blaming her, but instead I am taking the blame and have gone great lengths to change all of my priorities for our relationship.

Also, I never forced her to be a maid. The things she did around the house were things she chose to do on her own without my asking. It seems other women here don't mind handling the responsibilities of their households, either way, and you cannot call that "abuse."

Taking care of a family is a privilege and an honor. I always took care of my children because I wanted to, and I knew it was my duty. I took care of my wife because I wanted to, and it was my duty. Unfortunately, I neglected my wife's emotional and psychological needs; and now that I've realized that, I once again want to help her, and change myself, because I feel it's my duty. That's where marriage becomes a two-way street. If I make all of these changes and corrections to myself, and it ends up not being good enough for her in the long run, then I will know the problem doesn't lie with me as much as I thought.

A lot is hinging on her decisions from this point forward. Hopefully, I can come back here with good news in the near future.

I've payed attention to what you've written and it boils down to "I didn't forcer her..." and "I neglected...." amount, in straight talk to excuses and abuse. If it makes you feel better to rationalize this way, that's up to you. If you want to "get better" (you...and your relationship if given the opportunity) you'll dump the rationalization and man up.

You didn't force her but you didn't provide an alternative. She felt obligated to chose. The result of your "neglect" was an abused person. Your wife was provided a life far different from what she had any reason to expect. I wish you good fortune and hope you'll do the smart things to take advantage of any good fortune that comes your way in this regard.