Someone who has lived in the USA for 23 years still doesn't speak English.

[MrsCat 6]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

If it wasn't for posting on VJ, I wouldn't have bothered to learn to read.

Honestly, though I do agree with you. Some people are lazy and don't care and like getting away with sub-par. But there are others who don't have the resources to improve on their situation. As with all things - it's not 100% either way.

Edited July 31, 2008 by cattattude

[peejay 327]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

Another reason to build the wall and enforce immigration laws. That way the American people control US immigration policy...not the immigrant. America is a modern industrialize 21st century welfare state. It is no longer a frontier nation of the 19th and early 20th century. As you said...we have enough American illiterates, so why import more?

[kerewin21 2]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

Another reason to build the wall and enforce immigration laws. That way the American people control US immigration policy...not the immigrant. America is a modern industrialize 21st century welfare state. It is no longer a frontier nation of the 19th and early 20th century. As you said...we have enough American illiterates, so why import more?

Well... some of the people we're importing ourselves are illiterate. My husband can read and write, but if we brought over his mother, as many people on this very site aspire to do, we would be bringing over someone illiterate who would never be able to come otherwise (because she would never qualify for an H-1 visa or even for the diversity visa lottery). Blame immigration policy and you're blaming people on this very forum.

[S and S 12]

Why is it when I go to Mexico I can find all kinds of mexicans who speak english yet here it is more difficult? I was shocked when I hardly found any mexicans in Mexico (that I ran into anyway) that couldn't speak english. My friend and I could only speak a small amount of spanish, but we could both speak decent arabic so to keep people out of our conversations we chose to speak that. I know it messed them up that they couldn't figure out what two white girls were saying because it was obvious it wasn't a european language and yet we had American accents, lol.

Also, my husband has never been in an english speaking country, neither has his family and yet they can all speak good english. I think it is all about effort with some rare exceptions of people who really can't even be at a high level in their own language.

[Kathassane 0]

I had to add to this living in heavily populated areas of hispanics, I grew up with cubans and puerto Ricans, and now in orlando with a mix of everything.

I have to say a lot of people in New Jersey where I grew up never needed to learn to speak english, and they still don't.

I had to learn to speak spanish to get a job there, if not I had to travel to Manhattan

which I did, or travel our to other parts of Jersey where it was more american based, I come from the most densely populates city in the United States, its called Union City New Jersey, its right outside of NYC, we are on the other side of the Lincoln Tunnel

UC, has always been a big immigrant town, during the 40's til the 60's it was heavily populated European immigrants, but they learned english, they wouldn't be catered to

Including my grandparents they came from Germany in the late 1800's but they learned to speak english, the spoke to each other in German, but not to there kids, they thought they were given an opportunity to be here in the US they should learn the language

so to say UC, had Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, Polish, and a few others but mostly those, after a while the cubans came and everything in our city had changed, the strange thing is there were so many that for some reason things in the city changed to the point where the signs on the doors were in spanish than english and you had to bi lingual to get a job

my mom learned spanish, at forty something, everyone in my family speaks spanish, all of my siblings are married to cubans as well as all of cousins, my kids are half Puerto Rican, there grandmother on there fathers side doesn't speak a lick of english, well she can say a few words, but she has lived in the same city for the past 45 years and has no need to learn english because everything she needs there is someone who speaks spanish

every american I went to school with which wasn't many speak spanish

so I guess its all where you grow up, I love where I am from I love the people I wouldn't have changed a thing except to get them to speak english it can only help them

Aikon is from Union City hehhehe you know the rapper, i don't know how to spell his name

but anyhoo, It was a bit upsetting not being able to get a job as easliy in your own hometown because you didn't speak the language , but we got by i got my first job at 13 i worked for cubans, it was a great experience, the owner of the place he as well didn't speak english and he owned half of my city, pretty damn amazing

well thats all for now

Kathleen

[LaGreenEyes 0]

I had to add to this living in heavily populated areas of hispanics, I grew up with cubans and puerto Ricans, and now in orlando with a mix of everything.

I have to say a lot of people in New Jersey where I grew up never needed to learn to speak english, and they still don't.

I had to learn to speak spanish to get a job there, if not I had to travel to Manhattan

which I did, or travel our to other parts of Jersey where it was more american based, I come from the most densely populates city in the United States, its called Union City New Jersey, its right outside of NYC, we are on the other side of the Lincoln Tunnel

UC, has always been a big immigrant town, during the 40's til the 60's it was heavily populated European immigrants, but they learned english, they wouldn't be catered to

Including my grandparents they came from Germany in the late 1800's but they learned to speak english, the spoke to each other in German, but not to there kids, they thought they were given an opportunity to be here in the US they should learn the language

so to say UC, had Italians, Jews, Germans, Irish, Polish, and a few others but mostly those, after a while the cubans came and everything in our city had changed, the strange thing is there were so many that for some reason things in the city changed to the point where the signs on the doors were in spanish than english and you had to bi lingual to get a job

my mom learned spanish, at forty something, everyone in my family speaks spanish, all of my siblings are married to cubans as well as all of cousins, my kids are half Puerto Rican, there grandmother on there fathers side doesn't speak a lick of english, well she can say a few words, but she has lived in the same city for the past 45 years and has no need to learn english because everything she needs there is someone who speaks spanish

every american I went to school with which wasn't many speak spanish

so I guess its all where you grow up, I love where I am from I love the people I wouldn't have changed a thing except to get them to speak english it can only help them

Aikon is from Union City hehhehe you know the rapper, i don't know how to spell his name

but anyhoo, It was a bit upsetting not being able to get a job as easliy in your own hometown because you didn't speak the language , but we got by i got my first job at 13 i worked for cubans, it was a great experience, the owner of the place he as well didn't speak english and he owned half of my city, pretty damn amazing

well thats all for now

Kathleen

Cool Story! I grew up most of my life in Texas and I learned Spanish also. We lived in a mostly English speaking neighborhood but in my school there were lots of Puerto Ricans, Mexicans not to mention Tongans and Vietnamese and Cambodian people. I started young and now I speak fluent Spanish. But in our school there were the ESL classes where the kids would learn English and the majority by the time the graduated HS spoke it as well as the rest of us..... I use my bilingual skills every day, and I have from almost the time that I started working with the same company I am with now, I started when I was 17 and worked there all thru University. ..

I guess it's all in how bad someone wants to learn something. I remember working with guys from Puerto Rico..they'd been working in Texas for..8, 9 years when I met them..and they'd say how their wives still didn't speak English and stuff...mostly because they thought the women didn't want to go out and get a job...so they didn't learn english...anyhoo..

My husband is funny..He's only been here for 2 1/2 years so his English is far from perfect...but makes a good effort and writes it extremely well. He does say some funny things too...I remeber when he was still in Panama I taught him the word "Dorky" and since then..anything he thinks is well..dorky...is "eso esta BIEN DORKY!"

[Teacher Mark 53]

well I can see it's a mix of gramatically incorrect english and a funny accent.. IMO an accent is not 'broken english'... it's just part of who you are and period

I forgot to tell you about the time he was going to fight this dude and had a wrench in his hand and said " I fukkie you up with this key." Because wrench and key is the same word in Spanish,he thought it was like that in English too.

[peejay 327]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

Another reason to build the wall and enforce immigration laws. That way the American people control US immigration policy...not the immigrant. America is a modern industrialize 21st century welfare state. It is no longer a frontier nation of the 19th and early 20th century. As you said...we have enough American illiterates, so why import more?

Well... some of the people we're importing ourselves are illiterate. My husband can read and write, but if we brought over his mother, as many people on this very site aspire to do, we would be bringing over someone illiterate who would never be able to come otherwise (because she would never qualify for an H-1 visa or even for the diversity visa lottery). Blame immigration policy and you're blaming people on this very forum.

I'm not against immigration. But US immigration policy needs to be shaken up and reformed to reflect 21st century realities in the USA. And I'm not talking about so called "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" (aka: amnesty). There have been 7 amnesties already and the so called reforms from 1986 to present have been a frigging joke. Congress convenes studies on US immigration policy and then refuses to use their own studies to reform the system.

We are a modern 21st century industrialized welfare state with 19th century immigration policy. IMO the family based policy where the immigrant is the priority is like the tail wagging the dog. Immigration is a privilege and the priority of immigration policy should benefit the American people rather than to convenience the immigrant.

Immigration policy today has been bastardized into a globalized charity event, jobs fair, and consumer outreach program to benefit primarily the special interests that have congress in their pocket. The American people are last in line of the priorities. That needs to change.

Edited July 31, 2008 by peejay

[mendeleev 68]

I know an American who has lived in Russia for over 15 years and he knows hardly any Russian. It is incredible ... he knows less than I do ... less than my 18 month old grandson. And he's quite a successful businessman there.

In that country, there aren't sizable immigrant communities. Seems harder to get by there without Russian than here without English. So, it doesn't surprise me that there are immigrants who've been here for decades without learning English.

I used to work in Chicago (which, after Warsaw, is the second biggest Polish city in the world). The custodial staff at the laboratory I worked at were mostly Polish. We had to leave signs telling them to leave equipment alone written in Polish! And a lot of those people were not immigrants. They just lived in a world in Chicago where English was not apparently needed. Amazing, the diversity in this country.

[almaty 19]

i grew up in an area that had a large italian popualtion ..and there were several people, who spoke no english..did not need too

[panamania79 2]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

Some are.Some just could care less,and like you said lack of opportunities and access.

[panamania79 2]

sounds a bit lazy to me

It's not about laziness for some people. It's a lack of opportunity and lack of access. Try teaching someone who can barely speak their own language properly (let alone read or write it) to speak, read, and write another language. Is it really that easy to just go out and learn to read and write in Spanish (or whatever other language), then learn to read and write in English? There just aren't opportunities for some people. There are plenty of Americans who are illiterate. Are they just lazy?

Another reason to build the wall and enforce immigration laws. That way the American people control US immigration policy...not the immigrant. America is a modern industrialize 21st century welfare state. It is no longer a frontier nation of the 19th and early 20th century. As you said...we have enough American illiterates, so why import more?

He came here in 1986.People didn't have to jump through all types of immigration hoops back then.

[Mononoke28 134]

I know a lot of people who've been here for a very long time and don't speak English. And in my opinion, it all depends on the age when they came here. I don't expect a 50-60 year-old to pick it up right away or to pick it up at all since it's a lot more difficult for them to learn it, especially if they live in a community where they don't need to learn it.

But if they came here in their teens, 20s, 30s, even 40s, it's definitely laziness and a lack of desire to do it. I know a guy who speaks enough to get by because he picked it up at work and I told him that if he went to school, he would learn it well. His answer was that he doesn't have time and doesn't really care. He's 37. Now that's just not acceptable.

Diana

[panamania79 2]

I know a lot of people who've been here for a very long time and don't speak English. And in my opinion, it all depends on the age when they came here. I don't expect a 50-60 year-old to pick it up right away or to pick it up at all since it's a lot more difficult for them to learn it, especially if they live in a community where they don't need to learn it.

But if they came here in their teens, 20s, 30s, even 40s, it's definitely laziness and a lack of desire to do it. I know a guy who speaks enough to get by because he picked it up at work and I told him that if he went to school, he would learn it well. His answer was that he doesn't have time and doesn't really care. He's 37. Now that's just not acceptable.

Diana

I know.My buddy came here in his 20's and he still doesn't speak English right.

[Peikko 1,575]

Not speaking English does not equate to illiterate.

The OP's friend must be one class act to tollerate the OP if this is what she really thinks of him. What does the OP want? For this person to speak without an accent, to not make these social gaffes in her presence because it reflects 'badly' on her too somehow?

OP, your friend, for whatever reason is not bothered by this lack of perfection but from what you say, they can effectively communicate so what gives?

Just out of interest, if this is your best friend of 23 years, please tell why didn't you ask your best friend themselves if he is just lazy or stupid instead of asking a bunch of internet strangers who don't know him?

If these people 'get by' then what's it to anyone else what language they speak best?

*shrugs*