Pregnant at 11

[Madame-Butterfly 0]

thtas juts parent negligence who would let their 11 year old daughter go out and get pregnant ???? what are these ppl thinking of ??? and then the mum says shes proud ?? what the hell is she thinking ?

[Ban Hammer 14,184]

[Fandango 1,440]

Gotta love a dead horse smiley post that actually BUMPS the thread

Charles rocks! heh

[Veiled Princess 1]

I somewhat resent the implication that the only people with morals are those who follow the dogma of the church, Layla. That is an unfair accusation.

I don't think I mentioned anything about any church. I simply said "following God's law". Most people believe in a higher power of some sort who gave us rules/laws and don't think you just fell out of a monkey's behind.

[Veiled Princess 1]

just because a girl may start menstruating at 11, does not necessarily mean that her body is ready to start bearing children. Not by any means! A female body is not finished yet until about age 18, and any sexual contact or pregnancy any earlier than that can have serious repercussions afterward. I started menstruating at 11, no WAY would I have been ready to bear a child! Note my story about the 12 y/o given last rights during childbirth. There's a reason why life expectancy in the middle ages was so low! Because they started having babies too freakin early!

Um, NO, it was the lack of medicine and sanitation that we have today.

And marriage is relatively a "new" thing. Its not been around for millions of years at all. Thousands maybe, but even since the first edition of the bible came out, what we today lovingly call "living in sin" was the norm, even in Abraham's time (in some countries and US states, this is "common-law"). There was no actual ceremony, other than "yeah, I'll live with you and be your spouse" until much much later. The pomp and circumstance we have today is new. The ceremonial legalities of it are new.

I'm not sure where you get your information but there most certainly was some sort of small ceremony in Abraham's time to declare that this woman you're bringing home is your wife and not just some harlot you're shacking up with. If people in that time were not "married" to each other what exactly was adultury?

Heck, even marrying for love is relatively new! Historically speaking, most marriages were arranged in order to benefit the families, and in some cases, the entire clan.

I agree.

"God's" law, does not supercede the written laws of the land. An 11 year old girl cannot legally marry in the US, or Canada or the UK or or or. And even in Eastern countries where it is acceptable, the "married couple" don't yet live together as a married couple (and this certainly is not a "love match"). They live with one set of parents, and don't go out on their own until they're legally adult.

I do not agree especially with the part in red. What man can make a law greater than the being who created us?

Add to this that not everyone on the planet believes in the same "God" that you do, and that primarily only the Big Three monotheistic religions have such restrictions of no sex before marriage etc etc etc...(and even this is relatively new, over the entire history of mankind and of monotheistic religion). Some belief systems even encourage multiple partners before marriage. As my mother said "how else would you Know?"

I believe even pagan religions have some sort of code for not whoring around with people you're not married to.

And if you show me any 11 year old, male or female, who says they want to get married, because they feel they're mature enough for it, I'll show you some randy li'l pre-pubescent who just wants to get laid and knows their parents won't allow it until marriage. Heck, I've known even adults who felt strongly enough about the "no sex before marriage" Christian rule that they got married only so they could have sex!

I actually agree for the most part. But it's still better in my opinion than having sex outside of marriage.

FWIW, I'm not Christian, I'm Pagan. I was however sent to Catholic school when I was a kid, so I do know a bit about Christianity. My own personal beliefs do not restrict me, or anyone for that matter, to wait until they're married to have sex. I would however encourage young people to wait at least until they're 18, more for physical health reasons than anything.

Pagan is a pretty broad term. Hindu? Buddist? Wiccan? I think even the Hindus frown upon having sex before marriage. I respect your right to do what you want with your body. But for my children and for myself this is not an option. And it should not be an option for the billions of people who call themselves by Christian, Jew or Muslim since all three of those religions forbid this type of lewd behavior.

[*Robert* 2]

Yes I believe it is natural to start a family and have children when your body is ready for it. Starting her menses would be nature telling the girl/young woman that it is that time. And yes I do see the fact that they are unwed as being the "real tradgedy here". Societies got along just fine for thousands (millions?) of years with girls marrying and starting families at this age for all this time. It wasn't until recently when the first part (them getting married first) went out the window that the world has turned to $#*%. My religion forbids having pre marital sex and I wholeheartedly believe there is a great reason behind God's logic.

Okay, now that I have read through all this #######, I feel I'm entitled to post.

First of all, "your religion" isn't the only religion that forbids pre marital sex, but who gives a #######, because it is not "God's Laws" as you call them, that hold up in a court of law.

Second, just because a girls body is ready, doesn't mean her mind is.

Third, just because she's married, doesn't make it any better. And what, you expect they will stay married forever, or is that another "law", that once married an knocked up at 11, they will stay happily married ever after? What fricken fairy tales have you been reading?

Lastly, go check the definition of "pagan" again, before you start lumping in Buddhism and other types of religions.

Geez... enough already.

Ooh... and for the record, I am a firm believer in pre-marital sex. Without it, it would be like buying a car without taking it for a test drive!!!

[almaty 19]

glad to see you back brother robert...

[*Robert* 2]

glad to see you back brother robert...

hey hey hey!!! what can i say!!!

thanks brother dean!

[Fandango 1,440]

tell chutima welcome home...oh and you too robert!!!

[*Robert* 2]

tell chutima welcome home...oh and you too robert!!!

hehehehe Hey there trouble maker!!!

So when you and David coming over to see us?! I'll give you the grand tour of Kauai!!!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Yes. Welcome back Robert!!!!

[*Robert* 2]

Yes. Welcome back Robert!!!!

Thanks Rich! It's good to be home, just because I was "melting" in Thailand, as you know this time of the year is killer over there! I wish we could have spent more time, but I wanted to save my vacation time, and money, for our honeymoon and taveling to the mainland!

[Reba 2]

Celtic Recon.

What man can make a law greater than the being who created us?

I dunno, ask the President

seriously however, you're assuming that only One being 'created' us. I disagree. It takes two to tango doncha know

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

my comments are in red!

I am honestly stunned that you chose this topic to go off on a rant about unwed adult mothers when an 11 year old is pregnant yet you say it's 'natural' that she's pregnant.

That's true... IMO, it's not the fact that these girls are getting pregnant so young, [to me it is...I'm not here to impose morality on grown adults, but a pregnant 11 year old is wrong wrong wrong!!!] it's natural for a woman to start a family after her body is ready for it (her menses begin) if that is what she chooses...[so technically an 11 has the power to choose?] it's the fact that all these girls are getting knocked up and they're NOT married!!! you see this as the real tragedy here? The MEN (I use that word lightly) who are getting these girls pregnant are not taking any responsibilty at all. [men are getting them preggers, but females who have the power to reproduce are girls???] They are not sticking around to help raise the kids or pay any expenses so now these children are growing up without fathers and as a drain on society.[there are many unwed families that include men who DO contribute] They need fathers. There is most likely a pretty good reason why God created us to need TWO people to make a baby and it's probably safe to assume that it wasn't so that one party could get his rocks off and then leave the other saddled with all the responsibilities. And it's become acceptable in our culture to be an unwed mother! [this you see as worse than a pregnant 11 year old???] 50 years ago if a girl "got herself into trouble" it was kept a secret as much as possible. [50 years ago, black people were second class citizens, women were dependant on men 50 years ago a husband could beat his wife and no one would say anything...hundreds of years ago we shat in buckets...does that mean it's better than plumbing cos it came first?] People were ashamed of it but now we're PROUD OF THEM???? [proud of grown women choosing what they want in life? it's not your job to impose your morals on another] Most of these girls do not stop this behavior after the first one either. By the time they're 30 they will have two, three or more children by different men. And those children are learning from their parents example that this type of behavior is OK!

Just noticed I missed highlighting that last comment of mine in your post.

I believe it was the mother of the 11 year old pregnant girl in the story who was "PROUD" of her daughter for getting knocked up! I also believe I started with "IMO" it was just my opinion and I do not have the power to impose my morals on others Yes I believe it is natural to start a family and have children when your body is ready for it. Starting her menses would be nature telling the girl/young woman that it is that time. And yes I do see the fact that they are unwed as being the "real tradgedy here". Societies got along just fine for thousands (millions?) of years with girls marrying and starting families at this age for all this time. It wasn't until recently when the first part (them getting married first) went out the window that the world has turned to $#*%. My religion forbids having pre marital sex and I wholeheartedly believe there is a great reason behind God's logic.

Right, so the Romans having orgies really was a modicum of decency then?

Eh, nevermind. As I said once before (which had JayLen spitting her drink) 30 years ago, I was pooping in a diaper...doesn't mean I do it now...also doesn't mean it's better than the method I use now

Opinions, eh? We're going to have to agree to seriously disagree

Actually, I do have one more question!

If you had a daughter who was 11 who had her menses and she asked to get married so she could have a child, what would you do?

Well, my daughter is only 5 at the moment so it's kind of hard to answer how I would react about something in the future. I think IF, at the age of eleven, she was mature and was seriously wanting to get married and have a mature, responsible marriage and begin a family, I would have to seriously consider her request. It would be something that would require me and my husband sitting down and discussing this with her as well as with her proposed husband and his family. Of course, one of the conditions to me agreeing to any of my daughters marrying any man at any age would be that he is capable of taking care of and maintaning her. Since this is not something that a young man of the same age would be able to do then it wouldn't happen There would also be the condition that she continues her education until such time as she obtains, at minimum, a bach degree. Personally, I would be happy that my daughter has the moral foundation to actually prefer marriage at the age of eleven to having premarital sex like most of the young people that age or not much older. It really depends on what my options are. If my only two options are to let her marry and start her family or to not allow it and her go behind my back and have sex with her boyfriend and probably end up pregnant, then I'd much rather she gets married. I'm not saying we should marry all our daughters off at the age of eleven ok? I'm just saying it would be better for them to be married at least. At least if they were married it would not be a sin and the father of the child would be there to support her and the child. I'm sorry, I don't look at things the same way as you I guess. I don't really care what the culture mandates is the norm or what the modern way of doing things is. Everything in my life is prescribed by my religion. It is my total way of life and I try my best to impliment it into every aspect of my life every day. I know of nothing prohibiting the marriage of a young woman after she reaches the age of puberty according to my religion. On the other hand, premarital sex AT ANY AGE is considered a major sin in my religion. So I have to think of that and not what I think is the way things should be done today. Also, as far as I know, God has not sent any revelation or any new set of laws after the book I go by, so why would I not trust God over what some men say is the right way to do things? I also don't see that things are working so well in this age so why would I force that on my children? I say if it aint broke don't fix it. It's worked well for all these years. You keep talking about how things have changed so much in the past ever how many years but what you're not realizing is that I, for one, don't think things have changed for the better. I look around at the world today, especially here in the US, and am sick to my stomach at the way things have turned out, at the lack of morals in most people today, at the lack of teaching morals to our children, and at the evils that have become acceptable in this age.

I have a question for you.... first of all, do you ascribe to any religion? if so, what is your religious stance on premarital sex? and finally, which would you prefer for your 11 year old daughter to get married at that age and have a husband to help and support her in raising their child so that she can continue her education and not be breaking spiritual laws OR for her to go behind your back, have premarital sex in the back of a car or in a hotel room someplace, end up pregnant by accident and then get stuck raising the baby by herself when the deadbeat sperm donor leaves because all he wanted was a little bit of young @$$? OK that was more than one question but you get my point.

And what in the world does Romans having orgies have to do with anything I have said?

#######????? YOU ARE SO KIDDING RIGHT??? You know...you obviously don't think of your daughter then if you would SERIOUSLY think about it if she came to you at 11. 11???? FOr the love of sweet jesus what the hell is wrong with parents today??? I don't give a flying fook if this ofends you my dear. That is utterly undeniably the most ludicrous thing I have yet to hear coming out of a mothers mouth. THis isn't about ones faith, its about proper MORALS that are naturally within you when you are born. Morals are not taught--I don't care if you think otherwise or not. Think about it. When you do harm to someone else, you automatically (if you are right in the head that is) know that what you have done is wrong. You steal, you know it is wrong. So on and so forth. We are talking about an 11 year old girl hear. Someone who can't even stand on her own two feet and is still DEPENDANT on her parents. NOW WHAT?? THE REST OF SOCIETY WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR HER when mommy and daddy decide that they can't have her and her child in their house anymore??? THIS SO CALLED GIRL HAS NO EDUCATION??? I know..lets start fooking praising her for getting pregnant and owning up to her mistake and taking responsibility. I know, lets just sweep the problem under the carpet and pretend that she isn't really 11...how about that??? This CHILD IS HAVING A CHILD...THIS CHILD HAS NO EDUCATION TO SPEAK OF!! Wait...I know...she has some elementary teachings that will go a long way won't they??? This child will be able to sit through the rest of her school days with baby in tow without it being and disturbance to the rest of the class. THis child will be able to carry on as is and get an education, go to university, and make a pleasant life for her and her child right? Give me a god damn break. You know damn well who will be paying for this child and her own child...the government and the innocent citizens that pay into the government with their own hard earned wages. Let's just see where this child is with her own child in say 5 years time when I believe that is the age that they will give someone their very own council house. WOOOOOHOOOOOO THE SKIES THE FOOKING LIMIT FOR YOU NOW KID!!!!

Bottom line here, where are the parents acceptance of responsibilty in all of this?? Obviously the parents are a few fries short of a fooking happy meal themselves...For those of you who need a translation on that one..the parents must be thick themselves if they really honestly are proud of this young girl.

I don't think I need to go any further on this. Let the FLAMING begin. WOOOOOHOOOOOOO

hmmmmmm...s'mores anyone???

LAURA MITCHELL

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

May I just add some more here...You think it is natural for a woman to have a baby when her body is ready? Since when is an 11 year old considered a woman just because she has her mences??? The definition of woman in the ENGLISH DICTIONARY is an adult human female. AN ADULT!! And if it is soooo natural, then why are there not more 11 year olds having babies??? HMMMM?? I think I must be asleep on that one cause damned if I know. You are barking up the wrong tree here lady if you think that normal adults with common sense and the proper know how are going to agree with that one. Now I am all for agreeing that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I draw the line and start questioning ones right to be a parent themselves when they start talking like the way you are. I know for a fact that in America, most states the parents are held responsible for the actions of their children. In some states, social services would have been in that 11 year old girls house quicker than you can say tickle me pink. I will be shaking my head for a while over this one. I just don't get it. In todays society there are still such ignorant thinking. This isnt the good ole days where it was the norm for girls to be married off and starting families at an early age. Don't you dare bring religion into this one. Religion has nothing to do with common sense and worry over your child.

Laura Mitchell

Edited May 23, 2006 by ljwinquist