Do you support for Voter ID laws?

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

why does that make no sense to you?

Ex-felons have already paid the price of their crime. Why punish them a second time? Why would you not want people to contribute to society after serving their time?

i don't believe there is any such thing as an ex-felon unless they've been pardoned. even after release, they are still a felon.

personally, i'd rather not have a convicted felon vote. the suspension of their right to vote (and run for political office, to own guns) is due to the heinous nature of the crime they were convicted for. they've already demonstrated at the very least exceedingly poor judgement, so do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ideally you should show a voter ID. The question over this issue, from what I understand, is that many (typically poor) people don't have photo ID's and can't afford the administrative fees to pay for them.

Well then, let's fix that. Here in MA a state ID is only $15. Why not just make them free?

It's a good question - but I think that's something that really need to be addressed before we should start establishing laws that could disenfranchise people and prevent them from using their vote.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

why does that make no sense to you?

Ex-felons have already paid the price of their crime. Why punish them a second time? Why would you not want people to contribute to society after serving their time?

That's a fair point - I can't see how its fair to permanently exclude a person from the political process, simply because of a criminal record. If you've paid the dues for whatever you did, it shouldn't be an issue. If not - you should still be in prison. Having someone with a record vote is hardly a threat to national security, so what's the problem?

Any form of taxation without representation isn't fair, IMO.

[SteveLaura 0]

so do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader?

I suppose that depends on what you feel is expected from the punishment that the felon has already received. I like to think that we hope that felons, having served their time, have the opportunity to be rehabilitated, become productive members of society, turn their lives around and be examples to others that are in similar situations to them previously. So, yes, being able to vote would go along with that.

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

so do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader?

I suppose that depends on what you feel is expected from the punishment that the felon has already received. I like to think that we hope that felons, having served their time, have the opportunity to be rehabilitated, become productive members of society, turn their lives around and be examples to others that are in similar situations to them previously. So, yes, being able to vote would go along with that.

not buying that.

how many success stories, percentage wise, have you seen that can go 10 years without running afoul of the law again?

eta: one of those rights - along with voting, holding office, and owning guns - is being able to be a jury member. you want one of them sitting on a jury holding your life in their hands too?

Edited January 23, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[russ 1]

So I'll put you down in the minority 18% then.

I'm in the minority as well.

I think that ID is demanded for far too many things.

Lot's of people don't have a photo ID.

Let's say you get mugged on your way to vote. Should your vote then not count? Or you are in a nursing home and have an expired license. Not so easy for you to go and get a new one (doctors may not let you).

Besides - driving is a privledge. Voting is a right. You have a right to vote, even if you don't drive, have a passport, or have a birth certificate. You have a right not to have a SSN, license, or passport. Requiring someone to PAY for photo ID, solely for the purpose of voting, would be a poll tax. I think the supreme court will side with the minority here.

Many Americans don't have birth certificates either. My grandmother didn't (the city hall containing vital records burned down). There was no way for her to get one after that. I'm sure there are plenty of others who wouldn't be able to vote as well.

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

You have a right not to have a SSN, license, or passport. Requiring someone to PAY for photo ID, solely for the purpose of voting, would be a poll tax. I think the supreme court will side with the minority here.

Many Americans don't have birth certificates either. My grandmother didn't (the city hall containing vital records burned down). There was no way for her to get one after that. I'm sure there are plenty of others who wouldn't be able to vote as well.

really now?

[SteveLaura 0]

so do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader?

I suppose that depends on what you feel is expected from the punishment that the felon has already received. I like to think that we hope that felons, having served their time, have the opportunity to be rehabilitated, become productive members of society, turn their lives around and be examples to others that are in similar situations to them previously. So, yes, being able to vote would go along with that.

not buying that.

how many success stories, percentage wise, have you seen that can go 10 years without running afoul of the law again?

So, you would continue to punish them for their potential to commit an offense later? As we all have the potential to commit crime, that doesn't leave anyone left to vote.

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

so do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader?

I suppose that depends on what you feel is expected from the punishment that the felon has already received. I like to think that we hope that felons, having served their time, have the opportunity to be rehabilitated, become productive members of society, turn their lives around and be examples to others that are in similar situations to them previously. So, yes, being able to vote would go along with that.

not buying that.

how many success stories, percentage wise, have you seen that can go 10 years without running afoul of the law again?

So, you would continue to punish them for their potential to commit an offense later? As we all have the potential to commit crime, that doesn't leave anyone left to vote.

so how many success stories?

why should people who live an honorable life obeying the law have convicted felons grouped in with them when it comes to voting?

oh yeah, our mayor is a good guy, he did 25 years as a serial murderer! but that's ok now!

[DeadPoolX 9]

You have a right not to have a SSN, license, or passport. Requiring someone to PAY for photo ID, solely for the purpose of voting, would be a poll tax. I think the supreme court will side with the minority here.

Many Americans don't have birth certificates either. My grandmother didn't (the city hall containing vital records burned down). There was no way for her to get one after that. I'm sure there are plenty of others who wouldn't be able to vote as well.

really now?

I was surprised by that too.

Every American is assigned an SSN at birth and anyone wishing to become a permanent resident or naturalized citizen must apply for one as well. So I don't see where someone has the so-called "right" to not have an SSN. Maybe you don't like being identified by it (and I can agree with you there, especially since it's technically illegal to do so, even though both Federal and state governments do it), but that's the current process at hand.

If you disagree with it, then that's fine; come up with something better and see about getting it passed through Congress. In the meantime, we're all stuck having to use an SSN in the United States.

[SteveLaura 0]

so how many success stories?

why should people who live an honorable life obeying the law have convicted felons grouped in with them when it comes to voting?

oh yeah, our mayor is a good guy, he did 25 years as a serial murderer! but that's ok now!

I'm sorry, but the number of success stories is irrelevant, even if we could come up with a reasonable estimate. You are saying that because a percentage of people go on to reoffend, then all felons should be punished for it. I completely disagree.

[Craneman 2]

Ideally you should show a voter ID. The question over this issue, from what I understand, is that many (typically poor) people don't have photo ID's and can't afford the administrative fees to pay for them.

Well then, let's fix that. Here in MA a state ID is only $15. Why not just make them free?

The problem, as I understand it, is that the birth certificate that is required to obtain a state ID is not free. Many of my clients (homeless) do not have any ID whatsoever. No birth certificate, no driver's license, no bank cards - nothing. In terms of voting, some of them are ex-felons who are barred from voting anyway, which makes no sense to me. My clienst are, on the whole, trying to get back into becoming a productive member of society, but in so many ways they are being left outside.

why does that make no sense to you?

Ex felons should at least have prison ID?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

so how many success stories?

why should people who live an honorable life obeying the law have convicted felons grouped in with them when it comes to voting?

oh yeah, our mayor is a good guy, he did 25 years as a serial murderer! but that's ok now!

I'm sorry, but the number of success stories is irrelevant, even if we could come up with a reasonable estimate. You are saying that because a percentage of people go on to reoffend, then all felons should be punished for it. I completely disagree.

I can think of plenty of incidences where a person could acquire a one-off criminal record - obviously anyone with a record of serious violent crime will be in jail for a long time, certainly if they repeat offend.

Beyond that who would vote for a candidate for public office who was at one time or another - an armed robber, for example... Hell the current presidential candidates are having enough of a time just dealing with questions over voting inconsistencies... Criminal record would be the kiss of death - the spin doctors would have a field day with it.

[Ban Hammer 12,857]

so how many success stories?

why should people who live an honorable life obeying the law have convicted felons grouped in with them when it comes to voting?

oh yeah, our mayor is a good guy, he did 25 years as a serial murderer! but that's ok now!

I'm sorry, but the number of success stories is irrelevant, even if we could come up with a reasonable estimate. You are saying that because a percentage of people go on to reoffend, then all felons should be punished for it. I completely disagree.

just as i completely disagree with them having their rights restored to the point prior to their conviction. my stance is they shoulda thought about it before the crime, not after.

[almaty 19]

Which segments of the population would be unfairly discriminated against? Who doesn't have some sort of photo id? How can you live your life without some kind of photo identification? I think that's B.S. Of course you should have to show id to vote.

A lot of my clients have no photo ID. I'm against this also, and completely agree that voting machines are the bigger issue.

i am with you on this.....