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Do you support for Voter ID laws?

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Morocco
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Would it be so bad to require people to show proof of citizenship before registering to vote?

Proof of citizenship does not prove you are eligable to vote. Many states don't allow felons to vote, for example.

It also doesn't prove where you live (a US citizen living in Florida can't vote in Georgia for example).

Putting a picture on a voter registration card might solve the problem - but most states don't require the card to vote anyway.

Ok, let me reword. Would it be so bad to require people to show proof that they are eligible to vote before registering to vote?

Or better yet, would it be so bad to have a system in place so that those who run elections can verify that the person looking to vote is in fact allowed to vote without needing to see little slips of paper?

In this day and age, I just can't see the excuse.

Edited by Jenn!
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Would it be so bad to require people to show proof of citizenship before registering to vote?

Proof of citizenship does not prove you are eligable to vote. Many states don't allow felons to vote, for example.

It also doesn't prove where you live (a US citizen living in Florida can't vote in Georgia for example).

Putting a picture on a voter registration card might solve the problem - but most states don't require the card to vote anyway.

Ok, let me reword. Would it be so bad to require people to show proof that they are eligible to vote before registering to vote?

It wouldn't, but the proof they show has to be free (Most State Id's cost money), and should not be limited to a photo Id.

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Filed: Country: Brazil
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I honestly hope this issue doesn't become a back door for a national ID card.

I don't believe you will get your wish, alas...

Probably not...

#6 this is gonna hurt ... I agree with you on this one :yes:

Could it be that we are already there .... with a SSN? All it lacks is a photo ...

Edited by Natty Bumppo
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Every American is assigned an SSN at birth and anyone wishing to become a permanent resident or naturalized citizen must apply for one as well. So I don't see where someone has the so-called "right" to not have an SSN. Maybe you don't like being identified by it (and I can agree with you there, especially since it's technically illegal to do so, even though both Federal and state governments do it), but that's the current process at hand.

You are required to pay Social Security Payroll taxes if you are an employee. That's it - you aren't required to have a SSN or required recieve benefits. You can do this with an ITIN if you don't want a SSN.

Let's assume that you never worked (grandmother is again a good example - she never had a job). She was born well before the SSN existed. She lived most of her life without having one.

Everyone born before 1937 or so (which is a lot of people) did not have a SSN at birth. Even after that, they weren't assigned at birth (that's a somewhat recent thing).

If you start looking at Americans over 90 years old, particularly women, I think quite a few would not have birth certificates.

Anyone born within the last 50 years or so has a Social Security Number. The entire system has been set up in this country with that in mind. Whether or not Social Security was originally designed that way (it wasn't) and that citizens who were born before 1937 lack an SSN is moot. The system as it is right now assumes that all U.S. citizens will have an SSN.

As for Americans who're in their senior years (such as your example of 90 year-old women), they aren't given much -- if any -- consideration today. The reason is they are assumed to have long been in retirement and perhaps suffering geriatric disorders, such as Alzheimer's Disease, which would make them "unfit" to vote. That may not be entirely true (I've known some very coherent seniors in my life), but the system that's in place now doesn't really care -- unless, of course, you're "old and a politician." ;)

How is it discrimination to require individuals to submit valid ID, it si the law with other things such as driving. It is not an issue of discrimination, if one is here legally then there should not be any problem for them to obtain proper identification, Hell they manage to apply for public benefits and social services with no problem.

& you are correct voting is a right for those legally here & eligible to vote.

The question is to whether a photo ID is necessary, not ID in general.

I think a photo ID is necessary and should be required. I could claim to be practically anyone and unless the individual I was pretending to be was famous (or somehow otherwise known to whomever I was speaking to at the time), those regulating the voting booths would have no way of knowing if I was telling the truth to them or not. While a photo may not be considered 100% proof of who you are (anyone who has at least a little bit of experience with Photoshop could do all sorts of tricks in this department), a picture would lend greater credence to your identification.

As others have said on here, there's virtually no excuse for anyone of voting age to lack some form of ID. There are identification cards for work, education, military, organizations, licenses (automobile, aircraft, boat, etc) and so on. Even some credit and debit cards today are applying pictures of the primary account holder (and sometimes authorized users as well) to their cards. So I have trouble imagining that anyone at or over the age of 18 (which is required to vote in the U.S.) would have serious trouble acquiring at least one type of ID to use.

Edited by DeadPoolX
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I honestly hope this issue doesn't become a back door for a national ID card.

I don't believe you will get your wish, alas...

Probably not...

#6 this is gonna hurt ... I agree with you on this one :yes:

Could it be that we are already there .... with a SSN? All it lacks is a photo ...

i agree with my intelligent brother natty...i have heard that the social security card..could easily be the national ID...by having a photo attached to it and amking the card differently instead of out of paper..

i am against a national Id card...though...

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do you really want some murderer/armed robber/rapist/child molester/etc to be voting for our nation's leader? :huh:

I don't want half the population to vote for our nation's leader for no other reason than they're stupid. Can we require an IQ test to vote and suspend the right of all stupid people from voting in the future?

As far as the ID, there should be some way to ID voters. Otherwise, how do we know people who aren't supposed to be voting, aren't? How do you register to vote without some sort of ID? I wouldn't even be registered if it weren't for the lady at the DMV asking me "would you like to register?"

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Filed: Country: Philippines
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A national ID card would solve the whole thing. Make the required documentation free to attain and the card free and no one would have room to gripe.

That's assuming that an ID card for one, is a full proof method of preventing voter fraud and it wouldn't be. It would, however, prevent otherwise eligible voters if they for whatever reasons (lost ID) couldn't show ID.

There are reasonable methods in place that make voter fraud difficult. You have to register to vote and your voting information is sent to your address. When you go to vote, they check off your name on their list and have you sign your name. This makes it nearly impossible for someone to fraudulently vote unless they are pretending to be a registered voter. Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

It's really that simple. This is just a diversion from the voting fraud problems with the electronic voting machines.

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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

Edited by Mister Fancypants
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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Brazil
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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

steven, suppose someone steals your identity for this scenario.

steven registers to vote in texas. goes and votes. yet the real steven never shows up to vote...........

hmmmmmm

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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

steven, suppose someone steals your identity for this scenario.

steven registers to vote in texas. goes and votes. yet the real steven never shows up to vote...........

hmmmmmm

How could they register to vote if I'm already registered to vote in California? Supposing that someone would go through that trouble and I go to vote in California as I should, both votes would be cancelled out.

Seems an awful lot of trouble that a person would go through just for my vote and considering that traditionally, we have a very low voter turnout in this country, many Americans don't feel their vote amounts to much of anything. Voter fraud by stealing another person's identity has never been an issue.

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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

steven, suppose someone steals your identity for this scenario.

steven registers to vote in texas. goes and votes. yet the real steven never shows up to vote...........

hmmmmmm

In order to influence an election with impersonation, you would need hundreds of people to do it. Organizing that large of an effort, requires quite a bit of planning and would not stay secret for long.

Now, to influence an election by compromising the election system is much easier and could be done with 1 or 2 people. Especially with unverifiable electronic voting systems, undetectable. Obviously you wouldn't be doing this in Texas, it would be pretty obvious something is up when a generally red state, elects only Democrats. But in the swing states were it too close to call anyway, you only need to compromise a few precincts and you would have enough to influence the election.

keTiiDCjGVo

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Brazil
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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

steven, suppose someone steals your identity for this scenario.

steven registers to vote in texas. goes and votes. yet the real steven never shows up to vote...........

hmmmmmm

In order to influence an election with impersonation, you would need hundreds of people to do it. Organizing that large of an effort, requires quite a bit of planning and would not stay secret for long.

Now, to influence an election by compromising the election system is much easier and could be done with 1 or 2 people. Especially with unverifiable electronic voting systems, undetectable. Obviously you wouldn't be doing this in Texas, it would be pretty obvious something is up when a generally red state, elects only Democrats. But in the swing states were it too close to call anyway, you only need to compromise a few precincts and you would have enough to influence the election.

not in the least. you vastly overestimate the number of people required for this. someone could steal his wallet for the id and go register in another state to vote. nor do states compare lists with each other. and how many steven fancypants are out there anyways?

* ~ * Charles * ~ *
 

I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

 

USE THE REPORT BUTTON INSTEAD OF MESSAGING A MODERATOR!

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Filed: Country: Philippines
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Once the real registered voter shows up, then the discrepency is caught. The real person can then show identification to prove they are the person they say they are.

But the previous vote is already counted, right? Do they keep track of who each individual voted for so they can go back and take out the fraudulent vote and replace it with the other? What about all the people who are registered to vote but never bother to show up at elections? How would you catch it if someone voted in their place?

Think about it though. Who's going to go through the trouble of pretending to be another registered voter and take the chance of cancelling both votes out?

There's no full proof way to prevent voter fraud, but I can say with confidence, having worked in retail where I was required to look at someone's ID, that an ID card is no more full proof way than what is already in place, while requiring one would definitely prevent otherwise registered voters to vote...and that is counter to our democracy.

steven, suppose someone steals your identity for this scenario.

steven registers to vote in texas. goes and votes. yet the real steven never shows up to vote...........

hmmmmmm

In order to influence an election with impersonation, you would need hundreds of people to do it. Organizing that large of an effort, requires quite a bit of planning and would not stay secret for long.

Now, to influence an election by compromising the election system is much easier and could be done with 1 or 2 people. Especially with unverifiable electronic voting systems, undetectable. Obviously you wouldn't be doing this in Texas, it would be pretty obvious something is up when a generally red state, elects only Democrats. But in the swing states were it too close to call anyway, you only need to compromise a few precincts and you would have enough to influence the election.

Exactly. Why this is even an issue when the same people up in arms over this aren't even batting an eye about the verified problems with electronic voting machines is bizarre. I smell a rat.

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